Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Dennis Reynolds]

As much as I like dunking on JC. I'd like someone to tell me what Nieto and Acciari do. What an overpaid do-nothing 4th line that's been assembled.

You could probably have a bunch of WBS kids in their place with the orders: "do not get scored on"
And they'd probably succeed.

From what I've read posters who are fans of other teams say, he's a better W than he is a C. He's best as the F1 on the forecheck and can't do that with the responsibilities of a C.

 

[Freeptop]

Also, note how we don't really get new acquisitions that thrive in this system past a few weeks. I keep asking but when has the last time a fresh pickup or trade has had a career year here, leaving aside the shortage seasons?

To be fair - when was the last time the Pens acquired a player before they hit their prime, instead of after?

 

[Headshot77]

Oh no I have no strong feelings towards Friedman at all, I just find it silly to fret about a #7 defenseman doing well on another team after the Penguins traded them. Like who cares?

I don't particularly care about any player that isn't on my team, so I don't know why anyone would particularly care about what a depth player does on another team after the Penguins didn't have them anymore. The same thing has happened in the past with guys like Lafferty and Kapanen as well.

Nobody should be happy that we pissed away Friedman who immediately turned around and made an impact on the Canucks less than a week later. ESPECIALLY when we employ Chad Ruhwedel.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Who cares if he's listed on the 2nd pair on their depth chart when he's clearly being used as the #6 defenseman? Do you seriously think that he's playing ahead of Tyler Myers?

The Canucks 2nd and 3rd pairs are Cole-Friedman and Soucy-Myers.

He is on the second pair right now and Myers is on the third pair. I read that here in Vancouver as well. I mean you can pretend it isn't true, it is at the moment.

This is the problem with our board. Just this incessant hate for any player that leaves that was used piss poorly and so you lot think that player is just low on the ranks because Sullivan's used them that way like an idiot. Friedman wasn't some 6th round pick with no upside. Sullivan just treated him like that.

He always showed potential and Sullivan always showed a lack of wanting to explore it. So the canucks get him and explore it and he's doing well. Oh durr let me say he's this and that....

Lafferty isn't some top 6 winger either but he's been given fair shots in Chicago, Toronto and now Vancouver and has thrived in a different coaching atmosphere that isn't punishing to players that may make a mistake and then never get a chance again under Sully unless you're a veteran in his good graces. He's been a solid bottom 6 player that the Pens wanted, elsewhere because he's gotten better coaching and development to be that. Weird huh?

I always liked Friedman. He played hard, showed good flashes of offerense and potential. But apparently he wasn't Chud Turdwedel enough.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Nobody should be happy that we pissed away Friedman who immediately turned around and made an impact on the Canucks less than a week later. ESPECIALLY when we employ Chad Ruhwedel.

Who cares? Friedman is a #7 defenseman who’s not going to notably move the needle for this team. I want an actual upgrade for the bottom pair, not just a feistier Chad Ruhwedel.

Their bottom pair should have 2 of Shea, POJ and Ludvig on it. Even if Friedman was still here, he still shouldn’t be playing for the team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who cares? Friedman is a #7 defenseman who’s not going to notably move the needle for this team. I want an actual upgrade for the bottom pair, not just a feistier Chad Ruhwedel.

Their bottom pair should have 2 of Shea, POJ and Ludvig on it. Even if Friedman was still here, he still shouldn’t be playing for the team.

He’s currently a # 4 D on a team that’s way closer to being a playoff team than ours.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He’s currently a # 4 D on a team that’s way closer to being a playoff team than ours.

And Jonathan Drouin was a top liner for Colorado who’s a cup contender and I don’t want him in my top-6 either.

The Canucks are playing him in that role because they’re dogshit on RD

 

[Pancakes]

Yea I read an article about that last year. I'll see if I can find it. Makes a ton of sense. The idea behind it is that not only can you keep your momentum for rebounds, it reduces the abrupt starting/stopping that can put a ton of wear on your knees, hips and back.

I only play beer league and I've tried to integrate it where I can. It's definitely weird bc I'm used to drifting forward when a point shot comes.

The Athletic did an article on it: How two inches of ice helped an average NHL goalie become elite. You may need a sub to read it.

Interesting stuff though.

 

[Fordy]

much like zohorna, friedman will never amount to anything, he's nothing and not worth worrying about

 

[Gurglesons]

much like zohorna, friedman will never amount to anything, he's nothing and not worth worrying about

Good point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’d give a shit about losing Friedman if the Pentuins didn’t already have a better version of Friedman sitting in the press box for them.

Now I’m waiting for gurgs to respond to this with “Friedman is better than POJ”.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I do not understand how there is a single Penguins fan made about not having Sam Lafferty. The dude literally did not score a goal in a NHL game between February 16th, 2020 and January 16th, 2022. He didn't have a goal in his last 59 games with the Penguins.

Late on this but again, as a not-fan of Lafferty, I wanted to mention something here. The emphasis on non-physicality is super boring for this team. The 4th line as is is neither offensive nor any good at playing physical. Positional zero-sum ZAR defense is a f***ing cancer and should not be encouraged. Again, I hate that I'm defending Mr. Rogaine Numbnuts, but at least Lafferty did something entertaining when he wasn't taking insanely dumb penalties or going offside constantly. That is more than I can say for any of the 4th line who should be LTIR'd into the sun.

From what I've read posters who are fans of other teams say, he's a better W than he is a C. He's best as the F1 on the forecheck and can't do that with the responsibilities of a C.

Acciari sucks but I hate the trend of trying to "fix" players instead of acquiring players to play in their natural or comfortable roles. Sullivan is a f***ing domesticated turkey, and that's being overly generous.

Now I’m waiting for gurgs to respond to this with “Friedman is better than POJ”.

He is. Or at least he fills a niche that is harder to find and is more entertaining to watch.

By all means, play Ludvig. But you know we won't and we'll lose him to waivers or trade him for nothing in 6 months because Sully can't be arsed to do his job.

 

[Gurglesons]

POJ isn’t being played by Mike Sullivan and Shea is good.

We could have had both of them and Mark Friedman!

 

[Empoleon8771]

He is. Or at least he fills a niche that is harder to find and is more entertaining to watch.

By all means, play Ludvig. But you know we won't and we'll lose him to waivers or trade him for nothing in 6 months because Sully can't be arsed to do his job.

I genuinely feel like Friedman is just a worse version of POJ. He brings the same skillsets and flaws (good puck moving and skating, has occasional defensive lapses and doesn't really offer anything of note in the offensive zone), he's just also an agitator.

Their bottom pair should be POJ-Ludvig with Shea as the extra, with Sullivan being prepared to scratch either POJ or Ludvig to put Shea in since Shea also looks good. I don't even see a NHL roster spot for Friedman. Ruhwedel playing over Friedman is a problem but I feel like neither should be playing, even with Ludvig injured.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I find POJ's brand of hockey to be frankly bland and kinda useless. I'm glad you clearly feel otherwise, but man, comparing Friedman to POJ is frankly bonkers dude.

"oooh he's so smoooooth skating" *POJ weakly pokes at the puck*

Like I want Ruhwedel shot. I don't even care about putting him into the sun, just shoot him in the foot or something. But POJ isn't really all that much better.

I am really, really tired of watching ineffectual positional hocket.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I find POJ's brand of hockey to be frankly bland and kinda useless. I'm glad you clearly feel otherwise, but man, comparing Friedman to POJ is frankly bonkers dude.

"oooh he's so smoooooth skating" *POJ weakly pokes at the puck*

I'm not really giving a glowing endorsement of POJ here? POJ's a #5 defenseman that pretty much only offers good skating and puck moving. Friedman's a #7 defenseman that only offers those same things plus also being an agitator. Both have issues with defensive lapses and losing coverage in the defensive zone and neither offers pretty much any value in the offensive zone.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm not really giving a glowing endorsement of POJ here? POJ's a #5 defenseman that pretty much only offers good skating and puck moving. Friedman's a #7 defenseman that only offers those same things plus also being an agitator. Both have issues with defensive lapses and losing coverage in the defensive zone and neither offers pretty much any value in the offensive zone.

Which is way more interesting to me to watch than whatever it is POJ or Ruhwedel or Graves offers.

I'm not even entertaining the illusion that we'll be PO bound, I'm just saying, I'd rather take the guy who does everything this #5 does and has something more entertaining to add on top of it. Because god knows whatever POJ brings isn't exciting.

In other words, death to all "positional" blueliners.

To be fair - when was the last time the Pens acquired a player before they hit their prime, instead of after?

Proximity to Sullivan increases the later exponetionally.

 

[Headshot77]

Who cares? Friedman is a #7 defenseman who’s not going to notably move the needle for this team. I want an actual upgrade for the bottom pair, not just a feistier Chad Ruhwedel.

Their bottom pair should have 2 of Shea, POJ and Ludvig on it. Even if Friedman was still here, he still shouldn’t be playing for the team.

Friedman is moving the needle for the Canucks AS WE SPEAK. I'm not really sure why you're being so dismissive of this. This is death by a thousand cuts.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Friedman is moving the needle for the Canucks AS WE SPEAK. I'm not really sure why you're being so dismissive of this. This is death by a thousand cuts.

Zohorna will never change that 3rd line, he only has DOC's numbers in half the games, so better give it to DOC.

If this team wants to be anything more than an embarrassment, they should be trying to squeeze all the value possible out of players playing in their best positions instead of trying to turn EK65 into Brian Dumoulin and make Noel Accairi into the worst 4C in the Eastern Conference.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Friedman is moving the needle for the Canucks AS WE SPEAK. I'm not really sure why you're being so dismissive of this. This is death by a thousand cuts.

And even if he wasn’t traded and this team didn’t have Sullivan, he’d still not be playing for this team because he’s not one of their 6 best defensemen.

Good for Friedman that he has found a role in Vancouver. I’m still not playing him over any of Ludvig, POJ or Shea on the bottom pair.

Again, Friedman is just a worse POJ with a bit more snarl. Just move Shea to RD and run with POJ-Shea. Ruhwedel being a problem on the bottom pair doesn't mean that they need better bottom pair D to replace him, they already have better bottom pair D than him.

 

[HandshakeLine]

So, when did you take the HC position, Emp.? That's positively Sullivantastic!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've already spent more posts on Friedman than I wanted to, but here are Friedman's analytics for anyone curious about them:

-CF%: 48.4%
-CF%Rel: -5.92%
-HDCF%: 41.67%
-HDCF%Rel: -6.53%
-xGF%: 40.56%
-xGF%Rel: -10.34%

And this post will probably just make people do the "how are the xGF going Sullivan?" as if that invalidates what the stats are showing.

 

[Gurglesons]

And even if he wasn’t traded and this team didn’t have Sullivan, he’d still not be playing for this team because he’s not one of their 6 best defensemen.

Good for Friedman that he has found a role in Vancouver. I’m still not playing him over any of Ludvig, POJ or Shea on the bottom pair.

Again, Friedman is just a worse POJ with a bit more snarl. Just move Shea to RD and run with POJ-Shea. Ruhwedel being a problem on the bottom pair doesn't mean that they need better bottom pair D to replace him, they already have better bottom pair D than him.

 

[Gurglesons]

I've already spent more posts on Friedman than I wanted to, but here are Friedman's analytics for anyone curious about them:

-CF%: 48.4%
-CF%Rel: -5.92%
-HDCF%: 41.67%
-HDCF%Rel: -6.53%
-xGF%: 40.56%
-xGF%Rel: -10.34%

And this post will probably just make people do the "how are the xGF going Sullivan?" as if that invalidates what the stats are showing.

 

[pistolpete11]

Why is anybody comparing Friedman to POJ when Chad f***ing Ruhwedel has played every game for this team?





..........the more I think about it, though, maybe Ruhwedel would look like a top 4 defenseman away from Sullivan, too