Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Gurglesons]

Why is anybody comparing Friedman to POJ when Chad f***ing Ruhwedel has played every game for this team?





..........the more I think about it, though, maybe Ruhwedel would look like a top 4 defenseman away from Sullivan, too

No. Ruhwedel is the latest Jankowski, Sceviour, Wilson, ZAR, JJ type that gets impunity for 80+ games prior to being signed by another team where they play at best 20 before being a regular scratch.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Friedman is moving the needle for the Canucks AS WE SPEAK. I'm not really sure why you're being so dismissive of this. This is death by a thousand cuts.

This is just nonsense.

Chad Ruhwedel and Mark Friedman have the same number of points. They have a single assist apiece. Takes more than that to move the needle.

Friedman and Cole's performance as a tandem is artificially inflated, just like Vancouver's entire start has been. They will come back to earth.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Sully sucks so much that he's making me tentatively wonder if Hextall really was that bad.

Mike Sullivan doesn't flush his dooks in public toilets.

Hextall wasn't really that bad. He was way f***ing worse. Hexy will never serve in a management capacity in the NHL ever again. Sully won't spend a day not coaching when the Pens finally wise up, unless he prefers to take his guaranteed rake vs sacrificing that for a new gig with a team not stocked with future HOFs.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Man, I wish we could find a third pairing guy like this…

Damn that stings. Edit: but we ARE talking Canucks here. There can't be a more poorly managed franchise. Let's see how this works out. With that said, Cole should still be a Pen, Sully is a dickhead.

 

[Fordy]

i really like ludvig. i like him better than friedman. he’s spent most of his career injured and gave himself a massive concussion in his first nhl game. might have been wise to hold on to a second guy that plays a similar style, even if he’s only good enough for seattle’s 2nd pair

 

[Gurglesons]

i really like ludvig. i like him better than friedman. he’s spent most of his career injured and gave himself a massive concussion in his first nhl game. might have been wise to hold on to a second guy that plays a similar style, even if he’s only good enough for seattle’s 2nd pair

*Vancouver.

Dumoulin is the one turning back time on Seattle’s second line.

 

[Fordy]

*Vancouver.

Dumoulin is the one turning back time on Seattle’s second line.

same thing

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

*Vancouver.

Dumoulin is the one turning back time on Seattle’s second line.

Dumo got his second G a couple of nights ago and it was a nice snipe. What is his career max, 5? And he watched a puck go between his legs when he was in the crease that immediately ended up in the back of the net. That sort of makes sense. Dumo is one of my fave all time Pens, didn't like the original trade, but Dumo gave it his all, and was reliable, which is all you can ask for in a Pens D-man of that vintage (before we sucked). Seeing the "Death Valley Girls" tomorrow, you familiar?

same thing

Ouch, bro.

 

[Fordy]

Dumo got his second G a couple of nights ago and it was a nice snipe. What is his career max, 5? And he watched a puck go between his legs when he was in the crease that immediately ended up in the back of the net. That sort of makes sense. Dumo is one of my fave all time Pens, didn't like the original trade, but Dumo gave it his all, and was reliable, which is all you can ask for in a Pens D-man of that vintage (before we sucked). Seeing the "Death Valley Girls" tomorrow, you familiar?


Ouch, bro.

never been farther west than columbus ohio. don't mind me

 

[Gurglesons]

Dumo got his second G a couple of nights ago and it was a nice snipe. What is his career max, 5? And he watched a puck go between his legs when he was in the crease that immediately ended up in the back of the net. That sort of makes sense. Dumo is one of my fave all time Pens, didn't like the original trade, but Dumo gave it his all, and was reliable, which is all you can ask for in a Pens D-man of that vintage (before we sucked). Seeing the "Death Valley Girls" tomorrow, you familiar?


Ouch, bro.

Yeah, not a fan. But probably be a good show.

What’s the venue up there Orpheum?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And even if he wasn’t traded and this team didn’t have Sullivan, he’d still not be playing for this team because he’s not one of their 6 best defensemen.

Good for Friedman that he has found a role in Vancouver. I’m still not playing him over any of Ludvig, POJ or Shea on the bottom pair.

Again, Friedman is just a worse POJ with a bit more snarl. Just move Shea to RD and run with POJ-Shea. Ruhwedel being a problem on the bottom pair doesn't mean that they need better bottom pair D to replace him, they already have better bottom pair D than him.

Pens are last in the East, yet you act as if this is some coveted position on a top Eastern Conference team.

Vancouver is a top Western Conference team right now, with blokes you consider trash, playing pivotal roles. You're so f***ing out to lunch, your entire argument is just bitching about Friedman because you don't personally seem to like him vs what he's been able to bring to the Pens, all of these issues you have with Laff or Friedman seemed to disappear on other teams and yet you still f***ing blame players like a ignorant wanker.

jesus f*** your entire argument about Friedman, POJ, Lafferty....it's f***ing worse than the shit Sully is doing right now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This is just nonsense.

Chad Ruhwedel and Mark Friedman have the same number of points. They have a single assist apiece. Takes more than that to move the needle.

Friedman and Cole's performance as a tandem is artificially inflated, just like Vancouver's entire start has been. They will come back to earth.

They were a team trending in the right way with the talent they had on the roster underperforming, I think you might not want to see that they're a team that has more of their shit together being run by blokes you felt were shit here, well like most that leave the Pens that are shit, they seemed to bounce back. What I noticed last year watching the Canucks was that Tocchet and Sarge actually started to put in a foundation they were lacking, Tocchet holds players accountable and that team was really missing that, that and the structure they desperately needed that was instilled in them rest of last season and carried over this season.

They may hit a rut and lose a few in a row, but they'll bounce back, that Canucks team is weirdly deep in all 4 lines for how they structure it and are coached and if you're going by points for Turdwedel vs Friedman right now, then you really don't know what the f*** you're talking about. Because what Friedman is doing is not about his points at all, meanwhile what Turdwedel does is drag every defensive partner down each f***ing time, something Mark was never guilty of as frequently as Chud has been for almost a decade.

Let that sink in you f***ing walnut, Chad Ruhwedel has been on this team for 8 f***ing seasons.

HE'S A f***ING 9TH DEFENSEMEN AT BEST.

Who the f*** keeps trash that long? A f***ing hoarder of trash like Sullivan.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Lol @ resorting to points watch like it's 2007-era HFB debates.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Kirk got tired of arguing with me about Pancakes vs Waffles. We all know Pancakes are superior, and eventually Kirk couldn't take it any more.

French toast!!!

You're both wrong.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Sid's line and Geno's line are two of the top lines in the entire NHL in expected goals percentage.

 

[chethejet]

As much as Rutta was a cap dump, he is a good 3rd D for the Pens. Look cap constraints aside, Pens like Shea and nor sure Ludwig can stay healthy. Trade POJ to me for Bertuzzi a one year RD with some bang is not a Sullivan move but it is a Dubas move. Sully comes back here 4-8 and Dubas has to make the changes to get tougher on the back end, make a decision on Jake and get going on creating some cap space going forward. Carter sits long enough he may want to be move back to LA. BY the TDL. His cap hit is 1.5 million by then. and make a deal.

 

[Andy99]

Sid's line and Geno's line are two of the top lines in the entire NHL in expected goals percentage.

Call me when they’re in the top 10 in actual goals lol…

 

[SomeDude]

Sid's line and Geno's line are two of the top lines in the entire NHL in expected goals percentage.

Here’s how many expected ***** I give for goals that never happened: 0.

I swear people are starting to value crap that never happened more than actual results and wins.

“I know we’re last in the East but we shoot a lot and therefore statistically speaking should have more goals so we’re actually pretty good just unlucky.”

Screw that. A team that loses a lot is not good no matter what kind of stats you can invent to try to prove otherwise.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Here’s how many expected ***** I give for goals that never happened: 0.

I swear people are starting to value crap that never happened more than actual results and wins.

“I know we’re last in the East but we shoot a lot and therefore statistically speaking should have more goals so we’re actually pretty good just unlucky.”

Screw that. A team that loses a lot is not good no matter what kind of stats you can invent to try to prove otherwise.

Haha... the line that is first on that list has two actual goals and 9 total points between all three players.

 

[SomeDude]

Haha... the line that is first on that list has two actual goals and 9 total points between all three players.

Wouldn’t you think lines/players that score more with less chances are actually better? If you have 3 “chances” (whatever that even is) and score on 2 of them. I’ll take that over a line that has 6 chances and scores 1.

 

[Andy99]

Wouldn’t you think lines/players that score more with less chances are actually better? If you have 3 “chances” (whatever that even is) and score on 2 of them. I’ll take that over a line that has 6 chances and scores 1.

There’s an analytics presumption I think that all players who generate chances are equal at putting them in the net… definitely not true

 

[Gurglesons]

GCR does currently have the most goals for of any line in the league.

@Andy99

 

[pistolpete11]

Dumo's only 32 and is coming off a career offensive season. He's just coming into his prime. The Pens gave up on him too early

There’s an analytics presumption I think that all players who generate chances are equal at putting them in the net… definitely not true

It also presumes that shots are equal because they were taken from the same spot on the ice. Regardless of traffic, odd man rushes, one timers, etc.

I've really given up on the 'expected' crap.

GCR does currently have the most goals for of any line in the league.

Where do they rank in goals against?

 

[Gurglesons]

Dumo's only 32 and is coming off a career offensive season. He's just coming into his prime. The Pens gave up on him too early


It also presumes that shots are equal because they were taken from the same spot on the ice. Regardless of traffic, odd man rushes, one timers, etc.

I've really given up on the 'expected' crap.


Where do they rank in goals against?

Last. But they also have played more minutes than most lines.

Four lines are playing comparable minutes.

GCR - 13 GF - 9 GA
Schmaltz - Hayton - keller - 4 GF - 7 GA
Barbashev - Eichel - Marsh - 8 GF - 5 GA
Martinook - Staal - FAst - 4 GF - 0 GA

 

[Pancakes]

Here’s how many expected ***** I give for goals that never happened: 0.

I swear people are starting to value crap that never happened more than actual results and wins.

“I know we’re last in the East but we shoot a lot and therefore statistically speaking should have more goals so we’re actually pretty good just unlucky.”

Screw that. A team that loses a lot is not good no matter what kind of stats you can invent to try to prove otherwise.

Well, a team can have strong underlying 5v5 numbers and still lose a lot due to other factors such as luck, bad goaltending, and bad special teams. And whether you buy the luck part of it or not the Pens pretty clearly check the bad goaltending and bad special teams boxes...at least so far.

I don't think xgoals are perfect by any means but I think they're better than traditional metrics.

And I still think (as I think close to 100% of the board does at this point) that Sullivan is long overdue to be replaced regardless of whatever underlying numbers the Pens are posting.