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Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

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Ugene Magic said:
Recently you complained about Jarry not standing up, so which is it?

Because for me, a goalie who drops and gets beat top shelf of a goal that would have been 100% saved standing up on a shot on net with clear unobstructed view is a problem.

So is it timing? Or is it what is being taught? he's dropping before the shot is even taken.

I don't get dropping for a shot and nobody is within 30/50 feet of him. A blast from the blueline to the top of the circles should not be scored top shelf in that situation.

Again, you called it out, and I tech. agree, but now you are going all bipolar on us.

Edit: It's called being a hybrid than a stand up goalie.
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Reading your post sounds like he has bad habits.
 
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"Less than two years after hiring Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler, Mark Davis has decided to fire them both."

@FenwaySportsGroup

If the Raiders are firing people... Come on...
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I'd be sticking Zohorna in front of the net and bumping Guentzel off the top PP unit. I don't know that he has great around the net hands but him being 6'7" makes him pretty damn suited to be a net front guy.
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It kind of fell in his lap, figuratively speaking, but credit to smart positioning, his goal against the Ducks looked very nice. Not trying him on the PP given everything is coaching malpractice.
 
pls.jpg
 
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Okay we've had our fun let's stop bringing up the Sullivan quote about helping Karlsson improve his game because now I'm getting sad.
 
Ugene Magic said:
Recently you complained about Jarry not standing up, so which is it?

Because for me, a goalie who drops and gets beat top shelf of a goal that would have been 100% saved standing up on a shot on net with clear unobstructed view is a problem.

So is it timing? Or is it what is being taught? he's dropping before the shot is even taken.

I don't get dropping for a shot and nobody is within 30/50 feet of him. A blast from the blueline to the top of the circles should not be scored top shelf in that situation.

Again, you called it out, and I tech. agree, but now you are going all bipolar on us.

Edit: It's called being a hybrid than a standup goalie.
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Why would I, a lifetime goalie that plays a very technical butterfly style, ever complain about Jarry not standing up?

There are zero goalies in the NHL today that play anything but a strict butterfly style. Some goalies may have some technical quirks, but there hasn't been a "standup" or "hybrid" goalie that you're talking about since the 1990s. Goalies literally do not play that style anymore because it's an outdated style associated with the early 1990s and before.

Goalies take up more space in the butterfly than they do standing up. You can look at it from a simple geometric POV, being further out and covering more space low takes up more of the net when the puck is being shot from the ice.
 
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SEALBound said:
I mean, it's possible. You can ride Hellberg a bit more. You can call up Blomqvist if needed. Traditionally goalies have to "play their way out of it" but I think on any given night, Jarry and Hellberg are probably in the same boat. Maybe when Neds gets back?

I'm also more speaking to the fact that there are about 5-6 different bottom 6 combinations you can run with just one extra player. Changing up the 4th line at the very least is much more easy to do than figuring out goaltenders at the moment.
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Yeah, I'm not arguing against changing up the 4th line. They're playing Hinostroza on that 4th line and that's exactly what I want them to do. I'm arguing against the idea of changing the top-9, especially beyond just swapping Rust and Rakell.

I'm okay with swapping Rust and Rakell, but like I said I like Rust with Crosby so far this year. But anything beyond that? Absolutely not. The rest of it is producing too well for me to want to change up anything with the top-9.

The lineup changes they should be making IMO are:

1. Get Carter off the 4th line permanently. I think he's actually been okay this year but "okay" is the best he's going to provide you.
2. Get Guentzel off the top PP unit for Zohorna. I don't really know of anyone else who fits a net front role better than Zohorna at this point.
3. Play Hellberg more and Jarry less until Jarry gets out of his funk.
4. I'd probably run with POJ-Shea as the bottom pair as well, but frankly neither POJ nor Ruhwedel really do much for me on the 3rd pair.

Under no circumstances should you even think of touching the 3rd line until it slows down, and the only top-6 move I'd be alright with is swapping Rust and Rakell.
 
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Outside of goaltending, which I think most of us were at least somewhat concerned about prior to the season while acknowledging Jarry was probably the best bet of a bad bunch, this team doesn't really have personnel problems.

I'm happy to see Carter out, because I don't think he adds anything at this stage, but he wasn't actively hurting the team so far this year (unlike stretches of last year).

I'd prefer to see POJ in the lineup, but I'm not sure he's a great fit for the way the third line has been used and was always going to be used once this team got Karlsson.

I think the issue now comes down to the power play, a mindset on offense, and more aggressively game-planning for specific teams by utilizing different tactics. The power play needs to produce more. Simple. The power play is at 14.8%, which is astonishingly bad for a group this talented. Amazingly, it's not the worst in the league. It's just on the fringes of the bottom third. But it's still bad.

They need to go to the net more in all situations. Way too much on the perimeter. This is not by design, but they're not being held accountable.

And there can no longer be the expectation that by playing the same way consistently, the Pens will beat most teams. They can't do that anymore. They have to adjust their approach based on the opponent. They did it against Colorado and changed how they played in the neutral zone. They've adjusted forechecks in-game.

But they don't do it consistently. That needs to change. There is no reason why they should have played Ottawa straight up like they did the other night. Should've had the same approach as they did against Colorado.

And before anyone cracks, yes, this is largely on coaching. The players have to commit to it, too, but the responsibility lies with the coaching staff to set them up.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Yeah, I'm not arguing against changing up the 4th line. They're playing Hinostroza on that 4th line and that's exactly what I want them to do. I'm arguing against the idea of changing the top-9, especially beyond just swapping Rust and Rakell.

I'm okay with swapping Rust and Rakell, but like I said I like Rust with Crosby so far this year. But anything beyond that? Absolutely not. The rest of it is producing too well for me to want to change up anything with the top-9.

The lineup changes they should be making IMO are:

1. Get Carter off the 4th line permanently. I think he's actually been okay this year but "okay" is the best he's going to provide you.
2. Get Guentzel off the top PP unit for Zohorna. I don't really know of anyone else who fits a net front role better than Zohorna at this point.
3. Play Hellberg more and Jarry less until Jarry gets out of his funk.
4. I'd probably run with POJ-Shea as the bottom pair as well, but frankly neither POJ nor Ruhwedel really do much for me on the 3rd pair.

Under no circumstances should you even think of touching the 3rd line until it slows down, and the only top-6 move I'd be alright with is swapping Rust and Rakell.
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I like what I've seen out of the 3rd line, primarily Zohorna and Eller. If Hinostranza makes some offensive contributions, I wouldn't hesitate swapping him and DOC.

Switching Rust and Rakell, yeah, no problems there.

You seemed very against making any changes, especially to the bottom 6. Whether or not they work is anyone's guess (but we obviously hope they will). Most of us just want to try instead of watching the same product for 3-6 over another 72 games.
 
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DesertedPenguin said:
And before anyone cracks, yes, this is largely on coaching. The players have to commit to it, too, but the responsibility lies with the coaching staff to set them up.
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Completely agreed there. Players have to buy in to it but I think that becomes extremely difficult once the coach has lost much of the locker room.

Many times over the last few games, especially when down, lots of players become almost non challant about what's going on, like they don't actually care about the result. That to me is evidence of a coaching staff that has lost the locker room.
 
SEALBound said:
I like what I've seen out of the 3rd line, primarily Zohorna and Eller. If Hinostranza makes some offensive contributions, I wouldn't hesitate swapping him and DOC.

Switching Rust and Rakell, yeah, no problems there.

You seemed very against making any changes, especially to the bottom 6. Whether or not they work is anyone's guess (but we obviously hope they will). Most of us just want to try instead of watching the same product for 3-6 over another 72 games.
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No, I am against making any big changes to the top-9. The entire argument I've been making is that the top-9 has been far too successful offensively to change it up, and losing games for other unrelated reasons (like Jarry being bad or the powerplay sucking) does not mean you should change up the top-9 lines.
 
Tacitus Kilgore said:
Asking too much



Anus is too nice
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Mate I'd say how I really feel but I think @Zirakzigil is already stressed from the Flames sucking ass and the Pens that I decided to give the poor lad a break.

BusinessGoose said:
That's the point!

Even these idiots can see a coach imploding a team

Why can't FSG? And Sullivan has been doing it for six years....
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FSG doubled down on Sullivan through three GM's and the current third is suddenly gone from being impatient with mediocrity to suddenly being the most patient for this shit out of the 3 gms we've had with Sully.

What fun!
 
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66-30-33 said:
I’d take off Jake for a while and experiment with other players saying”ok you will only keep this spot if you screen the goalie, that’s your only goal to being on PP1”, it’s at least something I guess. Maybe it will work? Just screen goalie, it’s your only goal.
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Big Z should be that man. How are you supposed to see around him?
 
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WickedWrister said:
Sharks are losing 7-0 midway through the 2nd period and are going to fall to 0-9-1... yeah if we lose to them thats rock bottom
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Should be an exciting games with the worst team in the East playing the worst team in the West…someone has to win and actually put a puck or two in the net, don’t they?
 
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