BusinessGoose
Registered User
I can't believe anyone thinks there is still time to get into playoffs
Dubas thinks there is
Lol
Dubas thinks there is
Lol
Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach
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DesertedPenguin
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- Mar 11, 2007
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My takeaways:
- Since this is what everyone is focused on, I'll start with the elephant in the room: Dubas' comments about Sullivan mean nothing. He's not going to trash the coach. Sullivan was never going to be fired midseason. It'll be an offseason decision. I think there's some mutual respect, but I don't think it means Dubas is never going to fire him.
- On that note, very few coaches or GMs in any sport are going to rip staff or players, especially when they might consider moving them. It's just not the smart thing to do, but it always pisses fans off when the GM doesn't express exactly how they feel. Actions matter more than words here.
- I do think that there might be a higher likelihood of Dubas keeping Sullivan for another year, but changing his staff. His dance around commenting about Reirden and the power play, and putting the blame on himself, hints at that a bit. I can envision all of the responses already, but that approach might be a way for Dubas to get a Sullivan replacement on board ahead of time. At this point, it's not the approach I would take. I would simply clean house. But there might be a way to thread the needle.
- Sounds like Dubas has been upfront with the team leadership about what's at stake and the likelihood of moves. And it sounds like Lebrun's comment is about Dubas taking calls on just about everyone is true and that it would likely depend on the offer as to whether someone might be moved. Sid's comments to Rossi the other day about not being impacted by what happens with Jake falls in line with this.
- Also, not surprised he's not closing the door completely on this season. With how bunched up everything is, a hot streak could always change the picture. But he even seemed to suggest the likelihood of that is probably not very high.
- Not surprised about not asking a waive for a NTC/NMC yet. That would likely happen much closer to the deadline. Some of those might be offseason trades, too, where there is a bit more maneuverability.
- I think Jake is gone as long as there is a good deal.
- Clearly won't be buyers. At most, they'll maybe make a hockey trade or two, and sell some parts to get younger. His candor about exploring hockey trades leading up to the break and afterwards suggests he'd still be open to do that.
- Karlsson is part of the core. He included him in his comments about the core being mentors to younger players as part of the transition.
- My guess: Jake out, Rakell and/or Smith out, and maybe a fringe move or two. I wonder about Nedelkjovic, too. I also think Graves, Rust, and even Pettersson could be candidates to move in the offseason.
- Since this is what everyone is focused on, I'll start with the elephant in the room: Dubas' comments about Sullivan mean nothing. He's not going to trash the coach. Sullivan was never going to be fired midseason. It'll be an offseason decision. I think there's some mutual respect, but I don't think it means Dubas is never going to fire him.
- On that note, very few coaches or GMs in any sport are going to rip staff or players, especially when they might consider moving them. It's just not the smart thing to do, but it always pisses fans off when the GM doesn't express exactly how they feel. Actions matter more than words here.
- I do think that there might be a higher likelihood of Dubas keeping Sullivan for another year, but changing his staff. His dance around commenting about Reirden and the power play, and putting the blame on himself, hints at that a bit. I can envision all of the responses already, but that approach might be a way for Dubas to get a Sullivan replacement on board ahead of time. At this point, it's not the approach I would take. I would simply clean house. But there might be a way to thread the needle.
- Sounds like Dubas has been upfront with the team leadership about what's at stake and the likelihood of moves. And it sounds like Lebrun's comment is about Dubas taking calls on just about everyone is true and that it would likely depend on the offer as to whether someone might be moved. Sid's comments to Rossi the other day about not being impacted by what happens with Jake falls in line with this.
- Also, not surprised he's not closing the door completely on this season. With how bunched up everything is, a hot streak could always change the picture. But he even seemed to suggest the likelihood of that is probably not very high.
- Not surprised about not asking a waive for a NTC/NMC yet. That would likely happen much closer to the deadline. Some of those might be offseason trades, too, where there is a bit more maneuverability.
- I think Jake is gone as long as there is a good deal.
- Clearly won't be buyers. At most, they'll maybe make a hockey trade or two, and sell some parts to get younger. His candor about exploring hockey trades leading up to the break and afterwards suggests he'd still be open to do that.
- Karlsson is part of the core. He included him in his comments about the core being mentors to younger players as part of the transition.
- My guess: Jake out, Rakell and/or Smith out, and maybe a fringe move or two. I wonder about Nedelkjovic, too. I also think Graves, Rust, and even Pettersson could be candidates to move in the offseason.
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
I will answer your question with a question of my own.
Do you believe that replacing the coaches and a few bottom six changes that the Pens can afford, both in draft capital and cap space, will change in any meaningful way that bleak five year assessment?
Hell, I will throw changing the GM into that hypothetical too. In fact, make any changes that you care too, and the question remains the same.
- Jun 13, 2010
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We don't have a lot of under 26'ers which is why Dubas said they'd like to get younger. Now, I'm starting picking this apart but I want you to know that, in essence, I do agree with you.
What under 26 players are available? You can't sign them in FA because they are RFA until the age of 28. You either have to draft them or trade for them with the rare exceptions like DOC and ZAR, where you get from the FA after their rights expire, or like Harkins/Philips, where you claim them on waivers. So, accruing young talent that makes the team better is difficult. It's not like a Martin Necas is available for our scraps. The payment for such a player is heavy draft capital or an impact player on the roster. Both of which we should be hesitant to do at the moment.
I don't think Dubas has passed up good opportunities to make the roster younger at price tags we can afford.
Now the Sullivan part, yes. 100%
I get that sentiment but that's the Gruden, Nylander, White, Zohornas of WBS. They are no better and can provide no better offense that what we currently have. That said, I would 100% rather have any of them than Harkins, White, and Carter but we also have to be realistic of expectations. If there was a Sheary, Rust, Wilson in WBS...they wouldn't be in WBS, they would be in Pittsburgh.
Zohorna for Harkins, Nylander for Philips, Gruden for Carter - it's not going to matter. The goal of getting younger is balanced with the goal of getting better. It's why if you asked me whether I'd want Puljujarvi or Zucker in the line up, I'd say Zucker even though I know that makes us "older".
I think you dug up the crux of the issue though, not that we didn't already know it - but Mike Sullivan is not the guy to lead the charge with a new crop of guys. A large part of why the likes of Sheary, Rust, Wilson, and Kuhnhackl were able to make the jump in 2016 is because they were "Sullys guys" and there was already a trust factor built in. That's going to be very difficult for a young guy to do now with the roster built as is. DOC seems to be getting some trust but this is where if you bring in a guy like Yager for example and stick him with Malkin, will there be a tendency to revert back to DOC is there's an issue? Or to revert back to Rust, Rakell, lean on Eller, Carter, etc. We need youth to provide a fresh set of legs, eyes, and energy. I think that goes for both the players and coaching staff.
BlindWillyMcHurt
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I for one look forward to the youth movement.
The incoming 27 year olds off the waiver wire who have been on like four teams the last five years are gonna look terrific next to Malkin.
The incoming 27 year olds off the waiver wire who have been on like four teams the last five years are gonna look terrific next to Malkin.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
But that’s purely the point— who cares if Z or Poulin or whoever is bad? None of our bottom 6 outside of Eller look good. It can’t be possibly worse, but as we agree, Sullivan isn’t going to let it happen. So what’s the point of telling us they want to get younger when they’re unwilling to force the issue with the only person whose opinion on the issue matters?
It was all just an insulting waste of time.
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Next year will be a break out year for Mark Donk and Buzz Filbin.
Gurglesons
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pistolpete11
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Ryder71
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This is NOT DESIGNED to be a political statement, but the team largely leans left. Ownership, upper management, head coach And are very PC. There's very little willingness to ''shake things up'' as not to offend. I don't agree with it, at least to that degree, but that' has a lot to do with the lack of throwing arrows at anyone or making anyone accountable (to any large degree anyhow).
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
I don’t but it might make a more interesting product on the ice, which is all I care about now.
I am tired of our terrible brand of hockey populated by Craig Adamses and Dupuises.
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Because again, the mere exercise of "getting younger" through the current WBS crop does not help us "get better".
The entire press conference was about the TDL and the remaining parts of the season. The goal was to inform everyone that they aren't looking to buy and would like to trade out older assets and get younger assets. That's not necessarily tied to Dubas's thoughts on our current bottom 6 vs WBS players. If we aren't buying and they aren't looking to make the playoffs, it makes no difference. To use that old expression - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Except instead of the white chair, you replace it with a blue chair with a fresher paint job.
The goal should be to use the trade deadline and next off-season to get younger. That would include young prospect and draft capital for older current players.
Ryder71
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DesertedPenguin
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Because coaches with his track record rarely get fired midseason. They're given a chance to figure it out. Joel Quenneville is probably the only coach with multiple Cups to be fired midseason in the last several years, and that was reportedly because of a rift between him and the GM in Chicago.
Gurglesons
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DesertedPenguin
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Someone's leanings have nothing to do with accountability or trashing someone in public.
This is just nonsense.
Ryder71
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Why not just watch Kladno? You live over there don't you? Renounced your citizenship?
BlindWillyMcHurt
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I don't mean to snipe you here on what was a very well-thought-out post.
But are you so sure about that? Rust himself was nothing special numbers-wise in the minors.
Ryder71
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HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
You rearrange the deck chair to see what you have and possibly get someone to buy it off of you.
At this point what do they really have to lose? We’re almost mathematically eliminated from the postseason. Playing things cautiously is just the coward’s way out.
SomeDude
Registered User
This is one of the stupidest posts I’ve ever read on HFboards.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
Kladno is terrible.
Just as bad as we are.I get cheap tickets to see Olomouc which is way more fun.
Ryder71
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That's true, however when he was brought up in 15/16, there was already a relationship of trust that has been built with him and Sullivan. So when Sullivan comes on to the team and is looking for players, he already knew what he had in those guys. Again, they were "Sully's guys". I don't think the likes of Puustinen, Nylander, Poulin, etc are getting that if they come up to Pit.
Gurglesons
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