Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Ryder71]

This is one of the smartestt posts I’ve ever read on HFboards.

Oh its true, more than you know, just watch.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol hoooo boy here we go...

GEORGE SOROS IS PAYING KYLE DUBAS TO BE A DEEP STATE PLANT!

 

[Gurglesons]

That's true, however when he was brought up in 15/16, there was already a relationship of trust that has been built with him and Sullivan. So when Sullivan comes on to the team and is looking for players, he already knew what he had in those guys. Again, they were "Sully's guys". I don't think the likes of Puustinen, Nylander, Poulin, etc are getting that if they come up to Pit.

Then how are we “getting younger”

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That's true, however when he was brought up in 15/16, there was already a relationship of trust that has been built with him and Sullivan. So when Sullivan comes on to the team and is looking for players, he already knew what he had in those guys. Again, they were "Sully's guys". I don't think the likes of Puustinen, Nylander, Poulin, etc are getting that if they come up to Pit.

Well that's just bad coaching/assessment, then.

And we're back where we started.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This team's taken the Butthole Surfers lyric "Got no future, great big past" and just f***in' run with it the past half decade, and has no plans of stopping it, huh?

 

[HandshakeLine]

The goal should be to use the trade deadline and next off-season to get younger. That would include young prospect and draft capital for older current players

One hopes, but I have no faith in management to do it from their own words this conference. Plus, as mentioned, Sullivan hockey is boring, subpar hockey, so I’m resigned to any youth infusion being immediately sent down and never called up unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don’t but it might make a more interesting product on the ice, which is all I care about now.

I am tired of our terrible brand of hockey populated by Craig Adamses and Dupuises.

Which is very fair.

I have a different POV. I would enjoy seeing kids develop more than five more years of spinning our wheels going no where.

But either view is valid.

 

[HandshakeLine]

This is one of the stupidest posts I’ve ever read on HFboards.

Give me five minutes and a cobblestone

Which is very fair.

I have a different POV. I would enjoy seeing kids develop more than five more years of spinning our wheels going no where.

But either view is valid.

You can do both. But in order to do so, the organization has to be honest about our situation and the weaknesses of our coaching staff.

This conference and this season haven’t changed my mind at all in that regard. And I desperately want to have my mind changed!

 

[Victor Z]

For the record, I fully believe that Dubas doesn't have the authority to fire Sullivan and Sullivan's job is locked down safe due to FSG being in absolute love with him. With that being said, Dubas absolutely has the power to fire assistant coaches and it's inexcusable that they have done literally no moves to the coaching staff with how the team has performed.

I wouldn't be so sure of the bolded part.

Doobie probably isn't allowed to do ANYTHING that Mike Sullivan doesn't approve of because FSG doesn't want their homie to be upset in any way. He can't fire coaches, he must sign mainly Sully Scrubs as free agents or off waivers, etc. All nerd-boy really is allowed to do is cash his lavish paychecks and occasionally hold a smarmy press conference.

If anyone wants to fire Reirden, they'll have to pry him from Sully's cold dead fingers. The only way it happens is when a critical mass of people finally begin realizing what an overrated incompetent dipshit Sully (like Tomlin) is, so they make Reirden a scapegoat (like Canada) to deflect negative attention from the piss poor job the Golden Boy head coach is doing. Sure Reirden/Canada suck; Tomlin/Sullivan suck far worse but simply can't be held accountable for years and years of failure.

 

[Ryder71]

lol hoooo boy here we go...

That's not what I said, but libs stick together, and they hold their own unaccountable. Why do you think Sully gets a free pass, where is he from? where's FSG from? Ever hear Dubas speak about ''inclusion''? They are liberal, it's not a surprise to anyone, just saying they are very PC.

 

[Icarium]

At this point what do they really have to lose? We’re almost mathematically eliminated from the postseason. Playing things cautiously is just the coward’s way out.

Yes but what if we end up giving the Sharks the 8th overall pick rather than the 14th?!? Wouldn't that be a calamity of biblical proportions?!?

Seriously, the justifications for postponing any and all radical changes into some vague future are becoming ever more desperate. I can see why a GM might need to talk like that, lest he ruffles someone's feathers, but why do posters on an internet board? Yes, the WBS options are not too exciting. But still the chance of them actually surprising us positively is far greater than Harkins learning how to score goals or Carter finding the fountain of youth. You roll the dice if you have nothing much to lose.

 

[SEALBound]

You rearrange the deck chair to see what you have and possibly get someone to buy it off of you.

At this point what do they really have to lose? We’re almost mathematically eliminated from the postseason. Playing things cautiously is just the coward’s way out.

Again, I don't disagree. I'm just saying that Dubas's comments on the TDL and future and the need to get younger aren't necessarily tied in anyway to the unwillingness to bring up certain guys. I mean really, anyone that we would bring up - Nylander, Zohorna, Gruden, Hinostroza...they've already been here and they stink just as much as Harkins, White, and Carter. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't prefer it (because again I do agree). I'm just separating out what Dubas's thoughts on the TDL and future are and any questioning of that using evidence of the presence of Harkins/White/Carter in the lineup.

To be fair, he has tried doing it with Puljujarvi and Phillips. Signing/claiming those two are the "well maybe" moves that are not "cautious". I guess, using your stance, what's the difference between signing Puljujarvi and calling up Zohorna in terms of wanting to get younger?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That's not what I said, but libs stick together, and they hold their own unaccountable. Why do you think Sully gets a free pass, where is he from, where's FSG from? Ever hear Dubas speak about ''inclusion''? They are liberal, it's not a surprise to anyone, just saying they are very PC.

You want a shovel for that ditch? Gonna hurt yourself digging by hand.

 

[Zbynek]

I really hate Dubas' shit eating grin.

This sucks worse than the Sleepy era.

The org has given up.

 

[Ryder71]

Then how are we “getting younger”

Poolparty?

 

[pistolpete11]

Because coaches with his track record rarely get fired midseason. They're given a chance to figure it out. Joel Quenneville is probably the only coach with multiple Cups to be fired midseason in the last several years, and that was reportedly because of a rift between him and the GM in Chicago.

Coaches rarely survive 5 years without winning a playoff round either. He's been given 3-4-5 chances to figure it out already and it's only gotten worse.

Waiting to fire him until the offseason is just wasting time. They should have fired him so they could start assessing players under a different coach.

 

[Ryder71]

I really hate Dubas' shit eating grin.

This sucks worse than the Sleepy era.

The org has given up.

Dubas has a seven year deal, Sully what four more years? Ownership LOVES these guys. They can intentionally be patient with NO repercussions, at least for a while.

 

[SEALBound]

Then how are we “getting younger”

Through the TDL using older assets like Jake and Smith to procure prospects and draft capital.

Well that's just bad coaching/assessment, then.

And we're back where we started.

Agreed. To be fair though - list out who we have in WBS and we'll see that we've largely went through them all at one point or another. The only maybes are Frasca, Svejkovsky, Ansons, and Andonovski (There's Poulin but he's hurt). That's pretty lean group to make the comparison to. As much as I hate Sullivan and Jeff Carter, I can at least understand why Sullivan would take Carter over Ansons for example.

One hopes, but I have no faith in management to do it from their own words this conference. Plus, as mentioned, Sullivan hockey is boring, subpar hockey, so I’m resigned to any youth infusion being immediately sent down and never called up unless absolutely necessary.

Yeah, it's on Dubas to take toys away if that becomes the case. Harkins and White should have been waived long, LONG ago.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Poolparty? A 26 year old who is already in the dog house. Don’t get me wrong, I think the experiment is a decent idea, but it’s clear that Sullivan already has soured on it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Coaches rarely survive 5 years without winning a playoff round either. He's been given 3-4-5 chances to figure it out already and it's only gotten worse.

Waiting to fire him until the offseason is just wasting time. They should have fired him so they could start assessing players under a different coach.

I don't think you need to change coaches to make a fair assessment of a player's ability to contribute at the NHL level. That's what you have a scouting staff for. They assess players on other teams with bad coaches all of the time.

 

[SEALBound]

Another thing I will say is that, clearly the roster has been constructed in the:

Scoring line 1
Scoring line 2
Defensive line 1
Defensive line 2

Mold which is as problematic as anything. So if you have the whole in the bottom 6 and you've dedicated that line to defense, then yeah, you are going to bring up the guy that fills that role the best. It's why Puustinen on the 3rd/4th line is so cringy.

Now this is a general, structural problem that is 100% a Sullivan issue.

 

[Victor Z]

That's not what I said, but libs stick together, and they hold their own unaccountable. Why do you think Sully gets a free pass, where is he from? where's FSG from? Ever hear Dubas speak about ''inclusion''? They are liberal, it's not a surprise to anyone, just saying they are very PC.

The prior ownership (Burkle/Morehouse) were big-time pinkos and they made changes when necessary. Maybe they left the hockey decisions to actual hockey people and knew when to stay out of the way?

John Henry is right there with the previous owners politically, but that's hardly the reason why they love the smell of Sully's farts so much.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I hope Geno changes his number to 11 this summer and retires after next year. Dude's just gonna have any number of 3rd liners on his wing--as the best case scenario--until his body crumbles into dust out there.

This team really is, more or less, being held hostage by Sid and Geno. Not in a malicious way, but as long as those guys want to keep playing, we're gonna keep getting these lame as f*** half-measures and PR speak because everyone in the position to make changes and turn the page is too f***ing cowardly to rip the band-aid off. They'd rather let this era die to sepsis than lop off the rotten limb and move on with things.

That's what I meant by hating the organization for making me resent Sid. I don't resent Sid because he wants to keep playing--he's the only guy worth watching. But this team's gonna be too terrified to do anything until he retires. So I hope he retires after next season and his deal's up, but he'll play at least one more year to be eligible for the Olympics. And that means two more years of whatever the f*** this shit's been, including Sully. (PS; I don't resent Sid, I resent the entity Sid represents in this case; the one rock keeping up this landslide that needs to happen.)

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean we’re at the same position as we were before the conference (hence why it was so insultingly useless) but until Dubas actually makes real changes, it’s all just meaningless platitudes.

 

[Ryder71]

You want a shovel for that ditch? Gonna hurt yourself digging by hand.

lol You're silly. But that's ok, let's see how the ORG handles these things I'm referencing.