Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[DesertedPenguin]

How a Penguin fan of all people could come to this conclusion is very confusing to me.

Correlation =/= causation.

Yes, the Penguins promoted Sullivan midseason and won the Cup that year. They did the same with Bylsma.

But those are the only cases that happened in their history. They promoted Therrien to replace Olzcyk. He went 14-29-8 to finish the season.

They replaced Eddie Johnston with Craig Patrick in March 1997. Patrick went 7-10-3 and lost in the first round of the playoffs in five games.

That wasn't the first time Patrick stepped in as coach to finish the season. He previously replaced Gene Ubriaco in Dec. 1989. The Pens went 22-26-6 and missed the playoffs.

Funny that no one remembers those.

 

[Josey Wales]

Correlation =/= causation.

Yes, the Penguins promoted Sullivan midseason and won the Cup that year. They did the same with Bylsma.

But those are the only cases that happened in their history. They promoted Therrien to replace Olzcyk. He went 14-29-8 to finish the season.

They replaced Eddie Johnston with Craig Patrick in March 1997. Patrick went 7-10-3 and lost in the first round of the playoffs in five games.

That wasn't the first time Patrick stepped in as coach to finish the season. He previously replaced Gene Ubriaco in Dec. 1989. The Pens went 22-26-6 and missed the playoffs.

Funny that no one remembers those.

Doesn't fit their Narrative that Sullivan is the only problem that is keeping the Pens from being a SC Contender

 

[The Old Master]

If there were other internal options, maybe I'd be for it.

But my biggest fear is that if they fire Sullivan, they'll promote either Reirden or Vellucci, and I am convinced that they'll be an abject disaster. I think they're terrible assistant coaches. I desperately want an outside voice and perspective.

then they would be much easier to fire than sully. if we need to move in small steps I'm all for it as long as we are going in the right direction.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We're still at this "my biggest fear with firing Sullivan is the next coach could be worse" argument? Jesus Christ.

My biggest fear about dumping my girlfriend who constantly cheats on me and treats me like crap is the next girlfriend might just kill me in my sleep. So might as well keep the lesser of two (perceived in my head) evils.

 

[lokomotiv15]

I'm at the point where the power play's failure is a fireable offense on its own. I just have a huge philosophical issue with midseason coaching changes. I would rather play out the season, waste a season, and hire the best candidate in the offseason. You have a greater likelihood of creating a sustained impact rather than a two-week bump that then falls apart spectacularly.

This team is Minnesota, not Edmonton. It has some solid pieces and parts, including a still elite Sidney Crosby, but it doesn't have McDavid and Draisatl going on tandem heaters.

As a creature of habit, my superstitious heart tells me can him now because our last 2 mid-season firings have led to 3 Cups.

(although I do know that the quality of options that were present in those situations may not be presently available, and it doesn't always work out so well)

Edit: Yes, yes, I see you just responded to something similar to this as I was popping this on.

 

[pistolpete11]

Correlation =/= causation.

Yes, the Penguins promoted Sullivan midseason and won the Cup that year. They did the same with Bylsma.

But those are the only cases that happened in their history. They promoted Therrien to replace Olzcyk. He went 14-29-8 to finish the season.

They replaced Eddie Johnston with Craig Patrick in March 1997. Patrick went 7-10-3 and lost in the first round of the playoffs in five games.

That wasn't the first time Patrick stepped in as coach to finish the season. He previously replaced Gene Ubriaco in Dec. 1989. The Pens went 22-26-6 and missed the playoffs.

Funny that no one remembers those.

What about in 1973 when they replaced Schinkel (14-31-5) with Boileau (14-10-4)?

Or in 1975 when then they placed Boileau (15-23-5) with Schinkel (20-10-7)?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

What about in 1973 when they replaced Schinkel (14-31-5) with Boileau (14-10-4)?

Or in 1975 when then they placed Boileau (15-23-5) with Schinkel (20-10-7)?

So you're suggesting there is no pattern? Almost like correlation =/= causation, like I suggested?

 

[pistolpete11]

So you're suggesting there is no pattern? Almost like correlation =/= causation, like I suggested?

I'm suggesting I don't care what happened 30 years ago with Craig Patrick.

We've seen this core group of players respond well to in-season coaching changes. So if you think the coach is the problem, then there's no reason to wait until the offseason to make a change.

 

[Andy99]

I'm suggesting I don't care what happened 30 years ago with Craig Patrick.

We've seen this core group of players respond well to in-season coaching changes. So if you think the coach is the problem, then there's no reason to wait until the offseason to make a change.

Not even “the” problem…just “a” problem and that’s good enough

 

[EliteGoaltending]

At this point I have to just sit back and laugh about how predictable the media stories are.

I knew from the second we acquired EK65 that him and Malkin were going to be the scapegoats this year. Kingerski just complained about them and how they are ineffective on the ice.

And yet Sullivan comes unscathed out of the battle year after year. It's amazing.

 

[tom_servo]

That was a tough loss Saturday night. Feels microcosmic grinding for that lead just to collapse at the end. And with few conference games on the horizon, there's little opportunity to directly slow down the competition.

From this vantage point, it sure seems like the move is to sell. It's just tough because, of the core, you can really only sell Jake. The tank is still not on even if he goes. And the haul, while big for a UFA trade, is still unlikely to be a table-setting return.

Just another bummer of a season with more to come.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That was a tough loss Saturday night. Feels microcosmic grinding for that lead just to collapse at the end. And with few conference games on the horizon, there's little opportunity to directly slow down the competition.

From this vantage point, it sure seems like the move is to sell. It's just tough because, of the core, you can really only sell Jake. The tank is still not on even if he goes. And the haul, while big for a UFA trade, is still unlikely to be a table-setting return.

Just another bummer of a season with more to come.

They made a decent run at things. But the hole they dug at the start of the year was just too deep. It was just too much of an ask to expect them to somehow make up all that ground.

I know a lot of people don't like it... hell I don't really like it. But if they simply stand pat on Jake and the rest at the TDL only to miss the playoffs anyway and lose him for nothing when it's all said and done they truly are awfully dumb. If they don't sell then I have no idea where their heads are at. Not reality... that's for sure.

 

[Turin]

They made a decent run at things. But the hole they dug at the start of the year was just too deep. It was just too much of an ask to expect them to somehow make up all that ground.

I know a lot of people don't like it... hell I don't really like it. But if they simply stand pat on Jake and the rest at the TDL only to miss the playoffs anyway and lose him for nothing when it's all said and done they truly are awfully dumb. If they don't sell then I have no idea where their heads are at. Not reality... that's for sure.

Too early to say it's too deep, they're in a WC spot based on points % still and not too far from 2nd in the Metro, still. It just feels like it's too deep because they haven't gained ground in a month despite being fine results wise.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Too early to say it's too deep, they're in a WC spot based on points % still and not too far from 2nd in the Metro, still. It just feels like it's too deep because they haven't gained ground in a month despite being fine results wise.

Yeah I know it sounds defeatist. Trust me... this sucks. I wanted this team to compete as long as Sid was still largely Sid and he is. But here we are... a month+ of very good play and only like a two point shift in the standings to show for it. Like I said it was just too much of an ask.

Not enough urgency to start the season. Too much shrugging away problems. Too many questionable decisions and/or non-decisions that went on too long while points slipped away.

 

[Turin]

I'd even go so far as to say the Pens are a playoff threat IF there was one move they could make to fix the powerplay. But there's not if you're gonna keep Reirden, so there's no way they can make it past more than 2 rounds even if they went crazy 5 on 5 with their powerplay. Just such an annoying place to be.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'm suggesting I don't care what happened 30 years ago with Craig Patrick.

We've seen this core group of players respond well to in-season coaching changes. So if you think the coach is the problem, then there's no reason to wait until the offseason to make a change.

The core was in their early 20s and then in their prime when the changes occurred, not in the waning moments of their careers.

 

[Victor Z]

I'd even go so far as to say the Pens are a playoff threat IF there was one move they could make to fix the powerplay.

Kind of a moot point, especially in the playoffs. If the Pens' PP ever really starts clicking, the refs will simply see to it that they don't GET many power plays. Game managers gotta manage the game.

 

[Gurglesons]

The core was in their early 20s and then in their prime when the changes occurred, not in the waning moments of their careers.

What’s the harm in trying it?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What’s the harm in trying it?

Don't be dense, man. What if the next coach is so dogshit the Pens fail to reach the second round for like six years in a row or something?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

We are not out of the woods for some stupid all in trade deadline move. Although I would be more worried about that if JR were still the GM.

Still a 50/50 chance of making the playoffs

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So, while I am moderately concerned with the Pens going all in with no real money to bet with, I am thinking more likely that they go a little bit in. Minor trade or stand pat. They traded away their first round pick already after all.

The real question is if the 'fun' of watching the core have a glorified celebrity show tour for the first round and done to get one last cheer from the fans is worth the cost of being able to aquire maybe a couple of firsts and prospects toward the inevitable, and soon, crash and burn and rebuild.

Maybe it is.

 

[Icarium]

What’s the harm in trying it?

Yohe might die if Sullivan is fired, have you thought of that?!

 

[Andy99]

Yohe might die if Sullivan is fired, have you thought of that?!

Have you seen him lately? He’s probably going to die soon anyway..

 

[PaulD]

Correlation =/= causation.

Yes, the Penguins promoted Sullivan midseason and won the Cup that year. They did the same with Bylsma.

But those are the only cases that happened in their history. They promoted Therrien to replace Olzcyk. He went 14-29-8 to finish the season.

They replaced Eddie Johnston with Craig Patrick in March 1997. Patrick went 7-10-3 and lost in the first round of the playoffs in five games.

That wasn't the first time Patrick stepped in as coach to finish the season. He previously replaced Gene Ubriaco in Dec. 1989. The Pens went 22-26-6 and missed the playoffs.

Funny that no one remembers those.

Weve all watched hockey a long time .....if Sullivan doesn't warrant getting fired......no coach ever has.

His "I won two cups free pass" expired when he lost to the Habs in the play in.

 

[PaulD]

The core was in their early 20s and then in their prime when the changes occurred, not in the waning moments of their careers.

be that as it may
explain how that turns into job security for the coach.

We're still at this "my biggest fear with firing Sullivan is the next coach could be worse" argument? Jesus Christ.

My biggest fear about dumping my girlfriend who constantly cheats on me and treats me like crap is the next girlfriend might just kill me in my sleep. So might as well keep the lesser of two (perceived in my head) evils.

that's awesome !!!

dump the cheater , shes a sl## and you're friends are losing all respect for ya.

Great analogy!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So which youngster/rookie was punished today for Letang/Malkin's EN goof? Gotta hold the young guys accountable for sloppy play from the vets!