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Penguins fire Mike Johnston, Mike Sullivan named new head coach

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Getting rid of the coach won't fix anything. Penguins have a garbage GM who doesn't understand how to build a team in today's NHL.

Shero sucked too, but he was an upgrade over Mr.Magoo.
 
skolgoar said:
You conveniently neglect to consider the personnel changes in that time. Letting competent dmen walk and replacing them with AHL level dmen. Using available resources to add more scoring than adding defensive help or even PMD who can make a decent first pass to spring the offensive plays. Loading up on the top lines so that the bottom two are so milquetoast that the opposition has no respect for your offensive game. I'm a Kings fan and our 4th line has gotten more ice time than any time in the last couple of seasons because once you get past Crosby and Malkin, the rest of the team is pedestrian. The only gambit that has worked to this point is hoping that Fleury would return to form, because without him, the GM and the roster he has built would be entirely exposed. ... And the solution is to not only fire the coach and dump on him because he has to work with a minor league roster other than Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and MAF? Look around the league - 4 men teams aren't very successful in today's NHL, even with the salary cap.
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People keep repeating this crap but it's just blatantly not true. The Pens have a very good bottom-6. That's the reality of the situation. The Pens only weak point is on D, where they're missing a top-4 D.

Johnston was running a nonsensical "try not to let up goals" system, and it ended up killing the Penguins. That's why he got fired.
 
skolgoar said:
You conveniently neglect to consider the personnel changes in that time.
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No, I just dismissed them because 1) my point was that the basis being presented for MJ being "good" was faulty, and 2) he was Rutherford's hire, and Rutherford's fire, coming in shortly after Rutherford himself did, so reflecting on Rutherford's other moves is kind of a dubious proposition to begin with. Rutherford's flaws don't automatically absolve Johnston.

There presently is no evidence to suggest MJ was or is a "good" NHL coach. There's plenty to suggest he's a poor one. There's "maybe Rutherford kind of set him up to fail" benefit-of-the-doubt wiggle room in there, but right now that's the only even semicredible point anyone defending him is pointing to, and it's not enough to overturn the weight of evidence.

Could he do better given a different team and a second shot? Possibly; that can't be ruled out. But right now it does not look good for him at all.
 
WingedWheel1987 said:
Getting rid of the coach won't fix anything. Penguins have a garbage GM who doesn't understand how to build a team in today's NHL.

Shero sucked too, but he was an upgrade over Mr.Magoo.
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Another person throwing JR under the bus without looking.

The guy has been good for us. The defense were a problem not fully attributable to him.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Again, I'm not going to say it was a bad trade until we see how Perron does under Sullivan. Almost every player struggled under Johnston, it's not unique to Perron. If it turns out it was a coaching issue and Perron returns to his 25 goal, 50 point self, then it's a fine deal (assuming he gets re-signed).

Draft picks get overrated on this site. They traded a 1st round pick for at least a year and a half of a player that may end up as good as Perron. That's not a bad trade.
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If Perron can provide that 25/50 from the first line while reducing Sid's workload on one end of the ice then yeah, good trade.

But I don't think Perron's shown anything in his career that says he can do that, regardless of who's behind the bench.
 
Penguins lose but look a lot better IMO. Definitely more offence to their game, Holtby played great.
 
Pens will need 15 games or so before we really see what they've got. Of course they looked better tonight. That's pretty much expected after the coach gets fired and the fingers are pointed right at the players.
 
ForzaItalia said:
Pens will need 15 games or so before we really see what they've got. Of course they looked better tonight. That's pretty much expected after the coach gets fired and the fingers are pointed right at the players.
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They looked OK. Nothing to get excited about.
 
Narnia said:
It will take at least 20 games before you'll know if it's going to help. Every coach has a different system and it will take at least 20 games to adjust to a new system.
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I don't buy the "at least x amount of games to adjust" sentiment. These guys are professionals. If youth and college teams (generally playing ~40-50 games max) have systems in place, then I think NHLers can figure it out pretty quickly.
 
Narnia said:
It will take at least 20 games before you'll know if it's going to help. Every coach has a different system and it will take at least 20 games to adjust to a new system.
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Usually teams step up their play when a new coach comes in ... Guilt getting the last guy fired, trying to impress the new guy, relief to see a change. Typically things don't get better as time goes along as players fall back into old patterns. Plus it's tough to make wholesale changes to a system mid season because there just isn't enough practice time. All you are going to see is small tweaks and a change in the style that the coach interacts with the players.

Not getting any kind of a bump right right after axing a coach and bringing in a new guy is not a good sign that the players are taking any responsibility for problems on the ice.
 
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