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Penguins fire Mike Johnston, Mike Sullivan named new head coach

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Bad coach gets fired - a good sign of things come.

Pens fans should just hope they don't replace him with an equally terrible Ron Wilson or Randy Carlyle.
 
illpucks said:
The most noticeable thing about the Pens fans is they never having something nice to say about their coach.
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Because the Pens haven't had a very good coach since like Scotty Bowman in the 90s. Sorry for not being too kind to the Johnstons, Constantines, Olczyks and Kehoes of the world. Since 1993 (when Stan Bowman was no longer the Pens coach), I'd say the Pens have had more atrociously awful coaches than good ones.

Fun fact I saw. The worst Pens coach of that 22 year period was Eddy Olczyk, I don't think you'll find a fan that debates that. Johnston lasted fewer games than Olczyk did as head coach for the Pens. That's funny.
 
illpucks said:
Different fanbases on here each have their peculiarities.

Some are incredibly superstitious.

The most noticeable thing about the Pens fans is they never having something nice to say about their coach.

I've seen this same way of thinking when Pens finished 2nd in their conference.

"It was all Crosby" and "Bylsma deserves no credit" were the popular shtick on here.

Now that same shtick "It was all Fleury"

Different season. Same way of thinking.
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feel free to be specific about what changed that was so monumental from season to season with this team since 2011

we actually watch the games, so we've been able to tell pretty quickly that these teams have been destined to go nowhere in the playoffs. the team has the same way of thinking so naturally we do too
 
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g00n said:
No you're actually proving the point of everyone who says any criticism of Crosby is met with excuses like "yeah but (x player)" when you divert to Ovechkin, Stamkos, Clark, or whoever. This topic has nothing at all to do with those players.

If you don't think Crosby is a "coach killer" (and I never said he was) then address that point with logic rather than pointing a finger in some diversionary direction, or attacking fans of other teams by searching their history for some player who's had a lot of coaches. If raw number of coaches proves nothing, then what are you proving with those deflections? That's right. Nothing.
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Hilarious.

Any Penguins bashing thread thread that's "addressed with logic" turns into a monkey cage poop flinging contest where anything BUT the topic at hand is discussed, so spare me the babe in the woods routine.

Every cheap shot on a Pens player turned into a Matt Cooke thread, even after he started playing for the Wild. Where were the polite demands then to keep things on topic? I'm not even going to bring up the dozens of other threads created specifically to turn into a Penguins bash fest.

Hell, this thread isn't even a "Crosby Coach Killer" thread. Simply reading the thread title led me to believe people were discussing Mike Sullivan as the new coach. Am I being deceived upon entering here?

Jesus, just look at the "Is Torts the Biggest Whiner" thread. Shocking where that went.

Regardless, bringing up other "coach killers" isn't deflecting, it's simply pointing to the fact that a lot of coaches lose their jobs, so either they're all coach killers - including some of the fans' favorite sons who are never bashed regardless of what they do - or none of them are.

Stay on topic. Here. Lol.
 
MtlPenFan said:
Hilarious.

Any Penguins bashing thread thread that's "addressed with logic" turns into a monkey cage poop flinging contest where anything BUT the topic at hand is discussed, so spare me the babe in the woods routine.

Every cheap shot on a Pens player turned into a Matt Cooke thread, even after he started playing for the Wild. Where were the polite demands then to keep things on topic? I'm not even going to bring up the dozens of other threads created specifically to turn into a Penguins bash fest.

Hell, this thread isn't even a "Crosby Coach Killer" thread. Simply reading the thread title led me to believe people were discussing Mike Sullivan as the new coach. Am I being deceived upon entering here?

Regardless, bringing up other "coach killers" isn't deflecting, it's simply pointing to the fact that a lot of coaches lose their jobs, so either they're all coach killers - including some of the fans' favorite sons who are never bashed regardless of what they do - or none of them are.

Stay on topic. Here. Lol.
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It's pointless on these main boards to have an actual hockey discussion. Everything Pens becomes a not-so-thinly veiled Crosby bash fest, and it's always the same handful of posters.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Because the Pens haven't had a very good coach since like Scotty Bowman in the 90s. Sorry for not being too kind to the Johnstons, Constantines, Olczyks and Kehoes of the world. Since 1993 (when Stan Bowman was no longer the Pens coach), I'd say the Pens have had more atrociously awful coaches than good ones.

Fun fact I saw. The worst Pens coach of that 22 year period was Eddy Olczyk, I don't think you'll find a fan that debates that. Johnston lasted fewer games than Olczyk did as head coach for the Pens. That's funny.
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That is more than two decades. I mean... each coach had their moment, but the actually good coaches are far and few between.
 
I don't recall the Pens being one of the teams who signed that piece of paper to be able to talk to Babcock when Detroit was shopping him around. That was probably their one shot at a truly great coach, but as I recall they had committed to Johnson before that time. Wasn't Babcock rumoured to be interested in the Pens leading up to that offseason?
 
Even if Crosby and the entire team gets going and works hard consistently, their defense is still terrible and Fleury is going to have to continue to be as good as he's been or they won't get anywhere.
 
KCC said:
Even if Crosby and the entire team gets going and works hard consistently, their defense is still terrible and Fleury is going to have to continue to be as good as he's been or they won't get anywhere.
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I'm not saying Johnston was a good coach but who's to blame for that D? I guess you can understand why he coached the way that he did.

Perhaps Sullivan will be looking to win games 6-5 instead of 2-1.
 
MtlPenFan said:
(snipped list of general complaints)

Regardless, bringing up other "coach killers" isn't deflecting, it's simply pointing to the fact that a lot of coaches lose their jobs, so either they're all coach killers - including some of the fans' favorite sons who are never bashed regardless of what they do - or none of them are.
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Again, no. That's actually so far from logic it's a formal logical fallacy (false dilemma). Some might be coach killers, some might have run-ins with certain coaches and not others, and some might just be subject to poor management and circumstances. It's not either/or.

As I said, if you want to challenge the "coach killer" angle then make the case that Crosby has nothing to do with this coaching change, and do it using some kind of actual information related to the the people involved. If you don't want to hear "coach killer" every time your guy has a new boss then don't do the same thing to other players.
 
KCC said:
Even if Crosby and the entire team gets going and works hard consistently, their defense is still terrible and Fleury is going to have to continue to be as good as he's been or they won't get anywhere.
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They're 15-10 with Crosby playing like Mike Peca. If Crosby, Letang, Hornqvist & Perron get off their schnides I think they'll be back on the right track.
 
illpucks said:
If he was actually bad, that is one thing. He wasn't. Look at his career winning percentage. .595 is good for 34th ALLTIME.
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When you inherit a team that's gone .660 and consistently finished 1st or 2nd in their division over the past five seasons, going .595 and finishing fourth (and being on pace to finish fourth or fifth) is not exactly a banner accomplishment.

Honestly, I kind of wish they'd kept MJ longer. :)
 
Mr Positive said:
I don't recall the Pens being one of the teams who signed that piece of paper to be able to talk to Babcock when Detroit was shopping him around. That was probably their one shot at a truly great coach, but as I recall they had committed to Johnson before that time. Wasn't Babcock rumoured to be interested in the Pens leading up to that offseason?
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It's a redundant point because the Penguins would not have paid Babcock what he got in Toronto. And further to that, they probably knew going into the sweepstakes they would be unwilling to match the market anyway.
 
illpucks said:
Incredibly stupid and reactionary move, likely made after feeling pressure from fantasy stat watchers.

Make no mistake, there are a good amount of so called fans on here that would be very happy with 150 point Crosby/Malkin + 10th place (miss playoffs) in East every single year.

These stat watchers have been absolutely livid, and have wanted Johnston gone from the get-go. They never gave him a chance. Pens had won 7 in a row. There was still snickering towards him on here.

If he was actually bad, that is one thing. He wasn't. Look at his career winning percentage. .595 is good for 34th ALLTIME.

The guy that is replacing him is 96th. These "fans" don't want to absorb this information. It's all about fantasy stats.

Brutal mistake. Very good coach never given proper credit.
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What.....what? :laugh:

You think this is a reactionary move inspired by stat watchers (surely you cant mean the fantasy sports crowd)?

And the smoking gun for your theory is a single stat as subjective as win percentage? For two different teams in two different eras at two different stages of competitiveness? You cant seriously be making that the central crux of your argument, can you? Aside from the other gross inaccuracies and mischaracterizations in this post, what am I missing here?

Oh my god, this post. The ultimate stat watcher's rebuke for all those stat watchers. :laugh:
 
Viqsi said:
When you inherit a team that's gone .660 and consistently finished 1st or 2nd in their division over the past five seasons, going .595 and finishing fourth (and being on pace to finish fourth or fifth) is not exactly a banner accomplishment.

Honestly, I kind of wish they'd kept MJ longer. :)
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You conveniently neglect to consider the personnel changes in that time. Letting competent dmen walk and replacing them with AHL level dmen. Using available resources to add more scoring than adding defensive help or even PMD who can make a decent first pass to spring the offensive plays. Loading up on the top lines so that the bottom two are so milquetoast that the opposition has no respect for your offensive game. I'm a Kings fan and our 4th line has gotten more ice time than any time in the last couple of seasons because once you get past Crosby and Malkin, the rest of the team is pedestrian. The only gambit that has worked to this point is hoping that Fleury would return to form, because without him, the GM and the roster he has built would be entirely exposed. ... And the solution is to not only fire the coach and dump on him because he has to work with a minor league roster other than Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and MAF? Look around the league - 4 men teams aren't very successful in today's NHL, even with the salary cap.
 
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