Penguins fire Mike Johnston, Mike Sullivan named new head coach

[Empoleon8771]

When you don't have many trade assets, spending a first round pick on a guy who hasn't done much for 1.5 seasons is bad asset management by itself.

Frankly, I think Perron's ceiling was too low to justify that move at the time because he didn't take offensive or defensive pressure off of Sid.

Again, I'm not going to say it was a bad trade until we see how Perron does under Sullivan. Almost every player struggled under Johnston, it's not unique to Perron. If it turns out it was a coaching issue and Perron returns to his 25 goal, 50 point self, then it's a fine deal (assuming he gets re-signed).

Draft picks get overrated on this site. They traded a 1st round pick for at least a year and a half of a player that may end up as good as Perron. That's not a bad trade.

 

[BHD]

As for the OP, i think Desjardins would've made a big difference on the Pens but they wanted to force his hand and wouldn't let him hire his own staff so they missed out big time.

The same Desjardins who is a demonstrably bad coach? The fact that he was on managements radar shows how flawed the whole process was.

 

[haveandare]

It's not, but I've found Pens fans on here to have been generally excessively negative about their players/management for a few years, and harder on them than most other fans. Probably due to feeling like having Crosby and Malkin is being squandered, which is understandable.

Yup. During the last season of Bylsma every problem was traced back to him on here. Now he's a genius and Johnston is the problem. I'm sure Torts' assistant from NYR will right the ship now.

 

[BHD]

Yup. During the last season of Bylsma every problem was traced back to him on here. Now he's a genius and Johnston is the problem. I'm sure Torts' assistant from NYR will right the ship now.

More like after every playoff appearance dating back to the Montreal series, where there were red flags everywhere. But hey, you know better.

Both were mediocre coaches for the most part. Bylsma once he got a full season with the team (2009-10) and Johnston this season.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Torts also has really bad intangibles (worst self control of any NHL coach). Got suspended, belittled a reporter, told his team's star he is not in shape.

I just dislike the notion that people anoint their star players as untouchable and **** on their coaches. I was going to say (unless their coach gets them a cup). But that is not true for all teams, as Bylsma got **** on despite that accolade.

But that wasn't my argument. You pointed to arbitrary statistics as proof Johnston was a component coach. You cannot subsequently ignore those same statistics if we change the name from Johnston to Tortorella. Put simply, you just admitted other attributes factor into whether a coach is good or not.

And star players aren't untouchable. Kessel is pretty much the kiss of death according to Toronto media. Ovie held that dubious "honour" for a time as well. Even now, Stamkos is getting ripped while everyone loves Cooper. The simple fact is Johnston had no idea what he was doing, and ended up fired for it.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Yup. During the last season of Bylsma every problem was traced back to him on here. Now he's a genius and Johnston is the problem. I'm sure Torts' assistant from NYR will right the ship now.

Typically, any coach will be good during their first handful of games. This is due to teams unlikely to know their approach, especially if it's unique. At one point even Dallas Eakins looked competent. It's once they get exposed that determines their merits. Bylsma was never as bad as many Pittsburgh fans would claim, but he wasn't good either. He just got the job at the best possible moment.

 

[Orca Whalers]

Why not just give an interim title to Tochett? Canucks fans know Sullivan and he would be at the bottom of my coaching hires list.

 

[BHD]

But that wasn't my argument. You pointed to arbitrary statistics as proof Johnston was a component coach. You cannot subsequently ignore those same statistics if we change the name from Johnston to Tortorella. Put simply, you just admitted other attributes factor into whether a coach is good or not.

And star players aren't untouchable. Kessel is pretty much the kiss of death according to Toronto media. Ovie held that dubious "honour" for a time as well. Even now, Stamkos is getting ripped while everyone loves Cooper. The simple fact is Johnston had no idea what he was doing, and ended up fired for it.

Basically. Of course there are issues with the roster, but there were issues last season and he made adjustments as need be. This season, though, he really had no idea what to do.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Yup. During the last season of Bylsma every problem was traced back to him on here. Now he's a genius and Johnston is the problem. I'm sure Torts' assistant from NYR will right the ship now.

I want to know why one person being lousy at their job instantly means that another person can't also suck at their jobs. Who is saying Bylsma is a genius?

Bylsma is a better coach than Johnston. That is in no way any sort of praise about Bylsma, who was a lousy coach that refused to change things despite winning a Cup under a completely different coach's system, but a gigantic slap to Johnston, who quickly made it clear that he was in over his head at this level.

 

[illpucks]

Put simply, you just admitted other attributes factor into whether a coach is good or not.

Nope. But there are always exceptions to the rule. Torts is one. He might be a good coach but he has the worst temperament in the league. Trump might be a good candidate but might lose the race due to his temperament. Same thing.
Johnston has an average temperament at worst. Meaning it has no significant impact on his abilities as a coach.

The simple fact is Johnston had no idea what he was doing, and ended up fired for it.

I love this mentality. It is used to ostracize just about any person who the mob dislikes. Johnston was a very smart coach. He might be the smartest coach in the league. He understood his team strengths, and its weaknesses, and sacrificed offense for defense.

The result was great defense and among best GA in the entire league. The other result was lower offense, who the fantasy owners jumped all over (speaking of mob disliking someone). The polar opposite of Johnston is Bylsma vs Philly in the playoffs a few years back. How easily people forget about that.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Nope. But there are always exceptions to the rule. Torts is one. He might be a good coach but he has the worst temperament in the league. Trump might be a good candidate but might lose the race due to his temperament. Same thing.
Johnston has an average temperament at worst. Meaning it has no significant impact on his abilities as a coach.



I love this mentality. It is used to ostracize just about any person who the mob dislikes. Johnston was a very smart coach. He might be the smartest coach in the league. He understood his team strengths, and its weaknesses, and sacrificed offense for defense.

The result was great defense and among best GA in the entire league. The other result was lower offense, who the fantasy owners jumped all over (speaking of mob disliking someone). The polar opposite of Johnston is Bylsma vs Philly in the playoffs a few years back. How easily people forget about that.

The Penguins give up a lot of shots and do not play great defense. The GAA was driven by Fleury.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I challenge anyone to watch a Penguins game and point out that "great defense" to me.

28th in the NHL in shots allowed.

28th.


That's far from a end-all stat, but...c'mon, great defenses typically don't allow 32 shots a game.

 

[Fordy]

Yup. During the last season of Bylsma every problem was traced back to him on here. Now he's a genius and Johnston is the problem. I'm sure Torts' assistant from NYR will right the ship now.

i will give you 1000 dollars to find one pens fan on this website calling dan bylsma "a genius"

bylsma is an egoistic idiot. johnston is a smart guy, but a terrible nhl coach. that's all it comes down to

if you want to know why pens fans have been so hard on this organization, you'd have to have been obsessively following them for years like we all have. this team since 2009 is worthy of a tell-all bestseller book. it's that dysfunctional. it's been unlike any team in the league, unlike just about any sports team i've ever seen. the personal vendettas, the political+PR+marketing twisting, the insane management hierarchy running in a million different directions at once, the team turning into a "family" more concerned with keeping everyone together than running a professional sports team, the over-the-top cult of personality surrounding PASCAL DUPUIS and those other ordained "family members"... it's truly baffling, and it's all combined to waste years and years of two generational talents' careers. compounded with the fact that most of us are forced to watch a broadcast put on by two of the biggest idiots in the game indebted to that sick organization, who dedicate each game to pumping up their favorite players- excuse me, family members- and dragging down the kids, bashing the opposing teams, and generally being unable to even follow the flow of let alone call the game, it becomes an exercise in masochism to follow this team

so that's why people are so hard on them. hopefully they'll luck into some correct decisions before it's truly too late.

the tone of the pens forum has only been spiraling farther and farther down since basically 2011, continuing to find new lows to sink to along with the team. dear god someone save us from this hell on earth. it's so bad that even casual pens fans, the kind of people that post nonsense on the team's facebook page, have nothing positive to say about the team anymore

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I love this mentality. It is used to ostracize just about any person who the mob dislikes. Johnston was a very smart coach. He might be the smartest coach in the league. He understood his team strengths, and its weaknesses, and sacrificed offense for defense.

The result was great defense and among best GA in the entire league. The other result was lower offense, who the fantasy owners jumped all over (speaking of mob disliking someone). The polar opposite of Johnston is Bylsma vs Philly in the playoffs a few years back. How easily people forget about that.

I love that you hate of everything Pens makes you willing to spew ignorance all over this thread. You know damn well the Pens D is garbage and is just being propped up by MAF.

 

[HFBS]

i will give you 1000 dollars to find one pens fan on this website calling dan bylsma "a genius"

I just became a pen's fan.

Byslma's a genius.

PM me for my address. I'll take a check.

 

[illpucks]

I love that you hate of everything Pens makes you willing to spew ignorance all over this thread. You know damn well the Pens D is garbage and is just being propped up by MAF.

I love that you are just part of the mob that I was referring to in that post. And your behave just like the rest of the herd.

Pens D is not that great when viewed on paper. Johnston managed to make them a lot better than their on paper value.

 

[StroShow]

I love that you are just part of the mob that I was referring to in that post. And your behave just like the rest of the herd.

Pens D is not that great when viewed on paper. Johnston managed to make them a lot better than their on paper value.

If you actually watch the games , no Johnston did not manage to do anything. MAF is the biggest reason that the Pens are not bottom 5 in the league right now.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I love that you are just part of the mob that I was referring to in that post. And your behave just like the rest of the herd.

Pens D is not that great when viewed on paper. Johnston managed to make them a lot better than their on paper value.

Sorry illpucks, your ignorance is showing.

 

[illpucks]

Sorry illpucks, your ignorance is showing.

I could say the same for you, Ragamuffin Gunner

 

[BHD]

I could say the same for you, Ragamuffin Gunner

Yup, Pens fans are pretty ignorant about the happenings of the team they follow. Sorry, but give it up...

 

[Syrinx]

Pittsburgh has enough talent to win with any decent coach if they'd get rid of the country club atmosphere.

 

[Fordy]

I love that you are just part of the mob that I was referring to in that post. And your behave just like the rest of the herd.

Pens D is not that great when viewed on paper. Johnston managed to make them a lot better than their on paper value.

i don't know who you are but i see you talk about the pens a lot and you're always wrong

 

[illpucks]

Yup, Pens fans are pretty ignorant about the happenings of the team they follow. Sorry, but give it up...

Different fanbases on here each have their peculiarities.

Some are incredibly superstitious.

The most noticeable thing about the Pens fans is they never having something nice to say about their coach.

I've seen this same way of thinking when Pens finished 2nd in their conference.

"It was all Crosby" and "Bylsma deserves no credit" were the popular shtick on here.

Now that same shtick "It was all Fleury"

Different season. Same way of thinking.

 

[Shrimper]

Nope. But there are always exceptions to the rule. Torts is one. He might be a good coach but he has the worst temperament in the league. Trump might be a good candidate but might lose the race due to his temperament. Same thing.
Johnston has an average temperament at worst. Meaning it has no significant impact on his abilities as a coach.



I love this mentality. It is used to ostracize just about any person who the mob dislikes. Johnston was a very smart coach. He might be the smartest coach in the league. He understood his team strengths, and its weaknesses, and sacrificed offense for defense.

The result was great defense and among best GA in the entire league. The other result was lower offense, who the fantasy owners jumped all over (speaking of mob disliking someone). The polar opposite of Johnston is Bylsma vs Philly in the playoffs a few years back. How easily people forget about that.

If Johnston was so smart and "understood his teams strengths" then why did he not play to them?

The teams strength is its offensive. He played to its defence. Not very smart.

Fleury was the main reason for a strong defence.

 

[DearDiary]

i will give you 1000 dollars to find one pens fan on this website calling dan bylsma "a genius"

Did you think I wouldn't see this post?