Penguins fire Mike Johnston, Mike Sullivan named new head coach
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
Well you are. I can argue that the sky is red, but that doesn't make it even remotely true. You're wrong, it's that simple.
All your posts have used "That's hilarious" and "your wrong"
People who are losing arguments have very similar dialogues, as they are frustrated that the other party is presenting things that they don't want to bring to fruition.
Johnston is a good coach. 34th best career winning percentage. But that is all inflated by Crosby, and Malkin. Am i rite? LOL
Just give him his due credit. You continue trying to minimize him because it fits your agenda as the piece "that is holding Crosby back".
Zirakzigil
The Global Hangman wishes he could be
Anyone following the Pens knew this was coming. The team has been terrible offensively. Let's see what they can do now.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Your only argument for why MJ doesn't suck is that because he's 34th in career winning% as a coach, as if that means anything with a sample size of ~100 games on a team that the year before he was hired was a 110 point team. I don't need to lay out a long detailed post on why your wrong, because it's a waste of my time. I don't need to do that because I know you're just arguing that MJ was a SC caliber coach to piss off Pens fans, that's exactly what you do with Crosby. I can just say "you're wrong" and nothing else needs said, just like I only need to say "you're wrong" to someone who tries to argue the sky is red.
MJ absolutely killed the Penguins offensively and caused them to plummet in the standings. They're out of a playoffs spot right now and have been a ~.500 team for the last 80 or so games. They look horrible in all facets of the game and are only not at the bottom of the league right now due to Fleury. That is the current Penguin situation. Every player minus Dumoulin and Fleury were heavily underperforming under Johnston's system. That is why he was fired. The team wasn't good overall under MJ, regardless of what MJ's winning% (lol) was. He took the Pens from a 110 point team to a fringe playoff team, the entire team didn't just magically become worse within the last year and a half.
radapex
Registered User
You continue to argue against Johnston. Because you see more points as better player. You are upset about the lack of point production from your favorite player, Sidney Crosby. And you are trying to find a scapegoat. A coach, who happens to be a good one, is an easy target due to his lack of experience (only speaking in terms of GP).
If the Penguins were in the exact same position, and Crosby had 46 points, you would not say a single thing bad about Mike Johnston.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
You continue to argue against Johnston. Because you see more points as better player. You are upset about the lack of point production from your favorite player, Sidney Crosby. And you are trying to find a scapegoat. A coach, who happens to be a good one, is an easy target due to his lack of experience (only speaking in terms of GP).
If the Penguins were the exact same position, and Crosby had 46 points, you would not say a single thing bad about Mike Johnston.
No, I'm arguing against MJ because he has completely destroyed the Pens offensively and has made them into a fringe playoff team. Stop trying to put words in my mouth. If Crosby had 46 points, we wouldn't be having this discussion because MJ wouldn't be fired and the Pens would safely be in a playoff spot. But they're not, so that's a completely irrelevant point.
I'm honestly dumbfounded how you can think anything you say makes any sense. You're basically ignoring how bad the Pens are offensively, how they're not in a playoff spot right now and how mediocre they've been for the last 75-80 games and just keep yelling "YOU JUST ARE SAD CROSBY ISN'T PRODUCING!!!!!!" or "34TH BEST WINNING PERCENTAGE OF ALL TIME!!!!!". No, I hate MJ because the team wasn't good under him. The fact that Crosby wasn't producing (as Kessel, Malkin, Letang, Perron, Hornqvist...and everyone essentially) shows how MJ ruined the team offensively.
I don't like Johnston because he took a 110 point team and took them down to a fringe playoff team. He neutered the team offensively, which caused them to drastically fall in the standings. I don't hate him because Crosby wasn't producing under him, I hated him because the team overall wasn't producing and that caused them to lose games. I don't understand how you can't get that.
And the Bolts were 1 year removed from a Cup Finals trip. If the Pens made a cup last year and this wasn't a stretch of 80 games where they haven't been good, then I'd be willing to give MJ more time. However, for 80% of his time in Pittsburgh, the team wasn't good.
You continue to argue against Johnston. Because you see more points as better player. You are upset about the lack of point production from your favorite player, Sidney Crosby. And you are trying to find a scapegoat. A coach, who happens to be a good one, is an easy target due to his lack of experience (only speaking in terms of GP).
If the Penguins were in the exact same position, and Crosby had 46 points, you would not say a single thing bad about Mike Johnston.
How would the team be in the same position if Crosby had 46 points?!?
Edit: Maybe if Fleury was hanging around .900, at which point I'm pretty sure Mike Johnston would still be getting fired!
Jacob
as seen on TV
- Feb 27, 2002
- 50,575
- 27,742
It's not just Crosby. It's Hornqvist, Perron, Kessel, Letang. Even Malkin, who is playing out of his mind, is way off his normal pace offensively. Not sure why you aren't seeing that. Or I guess you do, it just doesn't fit your narrative.
Crow
Registered User
- May 19, 2014
- 5,051
- 4,019
That's not actually true anyway. The sky is blue to most subjects. It may be an entirely different color to someone with a rare colorblindness. That colorblind person's subjective observation is as valid as those without the condition.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 77,089
- 21,868
Taking a team that finished 2nd in the conference down to 8th in your first season and being out of playoff position almost 30 games into your second season is not cause for celebration. It's grounds for dismissal.
MJ inherited a perennial conference leader and turned them into a bubble playoff team. The winning percentage over a small sample size under those circumstances is moot.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
The Pens started out last year 16-5-2 with 79 goals for (3.43 goals/game and pace of 121 points) in October and November. Since then, the Pens are 42-32-13 with 209 goals for (2.40 goals/game and pace of 91 points). The latter number, which isn't far off from what they've done so far this year, is why MJ got fired. The Pens weren't playing like a playoff team for 80% of his time as a Penguins coach. That's why he got fired.
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
No. Malkin, Crosby and Fleury took an injured Penguins roster to the playoffs. Johnston stood around like a moron not knowing what to do. The looked like a dear caught in the headlights practically every game I saw him coach. I'll admit, I expected him to get the full year, but he certainly didn't deserve it.
Wasn't one of the main arguments against MJ was his lack of NHL games played?
So they replace him with a guy with just 54 more GP?
Literally did a double take as the Ducks lost 5-1 to the Canes last night. But nope. Didn't happen.
Not sure how Rutherford doesn't opt for a true veteran coach. Wasn't that a request from his own players?
He basically replaces a rookie with another rookie.
So they replace him with a guy with just 54 more GP?
Literally did a double take as the Ducks lost 5-1 to the Canes last night. But nope. Didn't happen.
Not sure how Rutherford doesn't opt for a true veteran coach. Wasn't that a request from his own players?
He basically replaces a rookie with another rookie.
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
Tortorella has a winning record and a Stanley Cup. Do you want to argue his merits as a coach based on arbitrary results too? Crosby and Malkin are two of the best players in the entire league. They can easily carry a crappy Pittsburgh team, and frankly, have been.
Icarium
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2010
- 4,125
- 5,913
So after these 7 wins in a row the Pens fell back to being mediocre at best - so it was a fluke after all, then? And in any event, the people who said it was a fluke were mostly those who actually watched the games, so what are you even talking about?
If you had actually watched the games instead of the boxscores you might have noticed the Pens haven't been suffocating teams on a regular basis - at least not any actual good teams. The Kings also have the physicality than the Pens do not. They can win battles of attrition. We, not so much. So whatever worked for the Kings is unlikely to work for the Pens. They are playing to their strengths, we were not. That's why their coach is considered one of the best right now and ours former coach is unemployed right now. Quite simple, really.
You whine about stat-watchers, yet your main argument is... statistics? Any half-decent coach whose first job is at the helm of a stacked team and is dismissed before it's too late is bound to be ranked in a decent position. Quenneville and Babcock are behind Bylsma in this ranking, would anyone hire Bylsma if they have a choice between those three coaches? Once the rest of the league figured out his PP, Johnston has been nothing but mediocre and his stats reflect that.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
When you coach a team led by the best offensive players in the world, you really need to let them play offense instead of playing a full on defensive system with flat footed offense.
He's still getting paid. Its not ideal, but I'm sure he'll be alright.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I don't know why that's funny.
34th best winning %, competitive 5-game series against the Rangers, "got" the Pens to an 8th seed; this is beyond reaching. People are just using this an excuse to crap on Crosby, which like I said only half-jokingly, is very ~2010.
He's a ****** coach.
Torts also has really bad intangibles (worst self control of any NHL coach). Got suspended, belittled a reporter, told his team's star he is not in shape.
I just dislike the notion that people anoint their star players as untouchable and **** on their coaches. I was going to say (unless their coach gets them a cup). But that is not true for all teams, as Bylsma got **** on despite that accolade.
Nope. The Penguins are the only team EVER that has fired a coach mid-season. Classless!!!!!!!!!
I watched most of that Pens-Kings game. Did Pens fans like it? I thought it was a pretty good game especially the OT! But, the Pens just look out of step and sync. I don't know what it is. I think the D is pretty awful and I think that might be one thing that really needs to be revamped before Crosby and Malkin are done (for lack of a better word). I mean, if Crosby's lost a step, you need some quick but effective changes and I'm not sure of the Pens' prospects pool but you don't want to sacrifice that to do it.
One of the things that you can do is change the coach. But, they probably need some changes with the player personnel, too? I understand that guys like Lovejoy and Scuderi have been busts and the Staal and Neal were arguably pretty bad? Or is Hornqvist improving or starting to pan out? At least, on paper, Kessel should work out well - with the right line mates and some patience. Over all, do the Pens have some prospects that can step in (especially, on D?) like some other teams? Some question marks should probably be reserved for their GM/management? They might need more than just a 'better' coach?
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Arguing that Johnston is a good coach because of his win% is like arguing a coach that gets Canada to the semi finals in the Olympics is great, because that is good for most teams.
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