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Penguins fire Mike Johnston, Mike Sullivan named new head coach

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illpucks said:
Penguins are not the only team. Look at the demise of their rival, the Flyers. Look at the Bolts this year. Look at the Ducks.

I think they should have waited to see Johnston's playoff performance this year before pulling the trigger. Always struck me as a coach who good get something done in the playoffs.

His hands were tied last year, with all those injuries. In spite of that the Rangers never won by more than a goal. I think he could have really shocked everyone. That anemic GF could have looked magical come playoff season. "Defense wins championships". Really think the Pens could have pulled it off this season.
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The GF was anemic for MJ's entire tenure.

Here's the 1.5 year regression of the Pens:

- 2nd seed to 8th seed to outside the playoff picture
- 5th highest scoring team to 19th to 27th
- #1 PP in the league to 9th to 27th

Literally the only area where the Pens improved was goals-against, where they were already a top 10 team, and the uptick could easily be attributed to Fleury's obvious improvement under Bales:

- 9th in GA to 10th to 4th

You can wait for the "magical" scoring miracle that has zero precedent in anything the team actually did while MJ was the coach. I'm happy that management based their decision on real-life performance instead of a baseless gut feeling.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I don't think they were actually saying it was Ovi's fault, they were just commenting on how it was stupid to call Crosby a "coach killer" when players like Ovi are at the same amount of coaches. There is no such thing as a coach killer, contrary to what HF wants to believe. Either you're a bad coach or you have a bad team, very rarely does a single player get a coach fired.
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Right. It's just for informational purposes. :sarcasm:
 
illpucks said:
Penguins are not the only team. Look at the demise of their rival, the Flyers. Look at the Bolts this year. Look at the Ducks.

I think they should have waited to see Johnston's playoff performance this year before pulling the trigger. Always struck me as a coach who good get something done in the playoffs.

His hands were tied last year, with all those injuries. In spite of that the Rangers never won by more than a goal. I think he could have really shocked everyone. That anemic GF could have looked magical come playoff season. "Defense wins championships". Really think the Pens could have pulled it off this season.
Click to expand...

Forget the playoffs. If the Pens has kept him they probably wouldn't have made them.

Our defence has been insulated by a god like Fleury, it would have been nowhere near good enough if we had made it.

His style of play stunk and didn't fit the Pens at all.
 
I think we might see Crosby and Malkin on the same line, with Kessel taking advantage of weaker pairings.

Relating that to this board, that would likely mean upgrading center depth. Doesn't necessarily have to be a rental, but I can't see them committing to 3+ years midseason (so no Bozak). Tons of options there, depending on how much they want to compete this year.
 
Warm Cookies said:
The GF was anemic for MJ's entire tenure.

Here's the 1.5 year regression of the Pens:

- 2nd seed to 8th seed to outside the playoff picture
- 5th highest scoring team to 19th to 27th
- #1 PP in the league to 9th to 27th

Literally the only area where the Pens improved was goals-against, where they were already a top 10 team, and the uptick could easily be attributed to Fleury's obvious improvement under Bales:

- 9th in GA to 10th to 4th

You can wait for the "magical" scoring miracle that has zero precedent in anything the team actually did while MJ was the coach. I'm happy that management based their decision on real-life performance instead of a baseless gut feeling.
Click to expand...

They are 5th in GA during a down stretch that got the coach fired.

When they are hot they were 1st in GA.

Lackluster offense(weak GF), solid defense (excellent GA).

Real-life performances? How about giving the coach a fair chance to win in the playoffs?

You can point to those regular season numbers to try to make a case for "regression" but what was the result of that season? Losing after a 3-1 series lead.

What was the result of that? Another fired coach.
 
At least the Pens under Bylsma were up 3-1 at any point in any playoff series. The fact that they didn't win under Bylsma when the numbers were better is a pretty **** defense for MJ. Saying "the Pens still lost while their numbers were better under Bylsma" is in no way, shape or form a defense of MJ. It makes no logical sense, it's a non-sequitor argument.

The Pens went from the 13-14 numbers and making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs (lost in 7 games) to the 14-15 numbers and losing in the 1st round of the playoffs (lost in 5 games) to the even worse 15-16 numbers and being out of a playoff spot at the moment. I have no clue how that isn't regression.
 
Ovate said:
I think we might see Crosby and Malkin on the same line, with Kessel taking advantage of weaker pairings.

Relating that to this board, that would likely mean upgrading center depth. Doesn't necessarily have to be a rental, but I can't see them committing to 3+ years midseason (so no Bozak). Tons of options there, depending on how much they want to compete this year.
Click to expand...

The Pens don't need to trade for another center. If they put Malkin and Crosby together without Kessel as the other linemate, they'll run with:

Malkin-Crosby-Hornqvist
Perron-Bonino-Kessel
Kunitz-Fehr-Bennett
Plotnikov-Cullen-Sprong

They don't need to bring in another center.
 
illpucks said:
They are 5th in GA during a down stretch that got the coach fired.

When they are hot they were 1st in GA.

Lackluster offense(weak GF), solid defense (excellent GA).

Real-life performances? How about giving the coach a fair chance to win in the playoffs?
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Who cares? We're talking about how the team's overall performance, not when they were "hot".

Johnston got a fair chance to show that injuries weren't the issue in the Pens' failure to produce last season. That resulted in bottom 5 production through the first 1/3 of this season with the healthiest Pens team in years.

You can point to those regular season numbers to try to make a case for "regression" but what was the result of that season? Losing after a 3-1 series lead.

What was the result of that? Another fired coach.
Click to expand...

I don't have to try. That's the case for regression.

There's no world where the bottom 5 offense and bubble playoff seeding Johnston's had the Pens playing since the beginning of last season is preferable to the top 5 offense and 7 game 2nd round loss we had before him.

Worse at scoring
+
Worse in the regular season
+
Worse in the playoffs
=
Fired
 
Warm Cookies said:
Who cares? We're talking about how the team's overall performance, not when they were "hot".

Johnston got a fair chance to show that injuries weren't the issue in the Pens' failure to produce last season. That resulted in bottom 5 production through the first 1/3 of this season with the healthiest Pens team in years.



I don't have to try. That's the case for regression.

There's no world where the bottom 5 offense and bubble playoff seeding Johnston's had the Pens playing since the beginning of last season is preferable to the top 5 offense and 7 game 2nd round loss we had before him.

Worse at scoring
+
Worse in the regular season
+
Worse in the playoffs
=
Fired
Click to expand...

I think people are misrepresenting the damage to the lineup in a short while.

Some valid questions
- Has Crosby ever fully recovered from Mumps
- Has Letang ever fully recovered from his stroke
- Has Maata ever fully recovered from his injuries
- Is Kunitz too old to be an effective piece

Not to mention the league has changed to much more trap oriented, much lower scoring.

- Would the old Penguins be effective in today's league

All very valid and very recent questions. Pinning it all onto a coach, is rather ignorant, and childish (not you specifically, but more the general sentiment of certain posts).
 
However this affects the Pens, I hope this somehow helps Crosby out. It sucks watching a generational player basically fall off a cliff at least five years too early.
 
illpucks said:
Penguins are not the only team. Look at the demise of their rival, the Flyers. Look at the Bolts this year. Look at the Ducks.

I think they should have waited to see Johnston's playoff performance this year before pulling the trigger. Always struck me as a coach who good get something done in the playoffs.

His hands were tied last year, with all those injuries. In spite of that the Rangers never won by more than a goal. I think he could have really shocked everyone. That anemic GF could have looked magical come playoff season. "Defense wins championships". Really think the Pens could have pulled it off this season.
Click to expand...
I don't know where or when this trope came from, but it's meaningless. Offense is just as important, if not more so. They haven't even playing that well defensively anyway, it's been Fleury.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
At least the Pens under Bylsma were up 3-1 at any point in any playoff series. The fact that they didn't win under Bylsma when the numbers were better is a pretty **** defense for MJ. Saying "the Pens still lost while their numbers were better under Bylsma" is in no way, shape or form a defense of MJ. It makes no logical sense, it's a non-sequitor argument.

The Pens went from the 13-14 numbers and making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs (lost in 7 games) to the 14-15 numbers and losing in the 1st round of the playoffs (lost in 5 games) to the even worse 15-16 numbers and being out of a playoff spot at the moment. I have no clue how that isn't regression.
Click to expand...

All that really means is that the Penguins kept Bylsma too long. Had they fired him in 2012 or 2013 there would have been better replacements available. Shero was never going to fire his bestest buddy.
 
illpucks said:
I think people are misrepresenting the damage to the lineup in a short while.

Some valid questions
- Has Crosby ever fully recovered from Mumps
- Has Letang ever fully recovered from his stroke
- Has Maata ever fully recovered from his injuries
- Is Kunitz too old to be an effective piece

Not to mention the league has changed to much more trap oriented, much lower scoring.

- Would the old Penguins be effective in today's league

All very valid and very recent questions. Pinning it all onto a coach, is rather ignorant, and childish (not you specifically, but more the general sentiment of certain posts).
Click to expand...

None of the questions you raised are valid reasons for the precipitous fall in virtually every major category for the Pens. Mumps recovery doesn't take that long, Letang played his best hockey last year after the stroke, and Kunitz is too old to be an effective piece, but Johnston plays him all the time anyway.

League scoring doesn't affect the Pens relative lack of scoring either. The problem isn't that the Pens are scoring fewer goals, it's that they're scoring many fewer goals relative to other teams. 5th in scoring is 5th in scoring and 27th in scoring is 27th in scoring no matter how many goals are being scored overall.
 
Congrats to the Pens on losing Johnston. The guy looked so confused out there. Like he was too old for this era. That JR did not see this when he hired him show how out-of-touch he was.

A 3-year deal for Sullivan? Feels like JR will go down with the ship with Sullivan.
 
Whizar said:
Doesnt Jacque Martin work for the pens? I'd like to see him give it another go. He's never been bad
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Martin does work for the Penguins and is replacing Agnew behind the bench as an assistant.
 
PhoenyX said:
I don't think I knew a single thing about Mike Johnston except that Pens fans didn't like him.
Click to expand...

When was the last time Pens fans DID like a coach? They hated Therrien, they hated Bylsma, and they hated Johnston. I'm sure in a month we'll be hearing all about Sullivan's failings.
 
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