Confirmed with Link: Penguins acquire Erik Karlsson for Granlund, 1st rounder in 2024, Rutta, Petry, DeSmith (more in first post)

[ChaosAgent]

Read the 1st five pages of the Sharks board about the trade. They act as if Grier did a great job for them. They're so hung up on the retention aspect of this. I get it to a point, but they won't be contenders for quite some time. Not sure retaining an extra million or two didn't cost them another asset. Maybe their owner is cheap. lol

In their position I would have preferred more. Oh well Dubas did well, if they want to believe Grier is some mastermind I suppose ignorance is bliss. lol

The retention is a really big deal for them. Karlsson is a great player but he is not an $11.5M player; he probably isn't even a $10M player.
Next year they will buy out Granlund and they will have $40M of space. They'll tank this year and get our pick, probably around #18-20. Ruutta may also be movable for a 3rd-4th at the TDL.

They also effectively traded a 2 year contract (Petry) for a 1 year contract (Hoffman).

I think their GM did quite well.

 

[Ryder71]

The retention is a really big deal for them. Karlsson is a great player but he is not an $11.5M player; he probably isn't even a $10M player.
Next year they will buy out Granlund and they will have $40M of space. They'll tank this year and get our pick, probably around #18-20. Ruutta may also be movable for a 3rd-4th at the TDL.

They also effectively traded a 2 year contract (Petry) for a 1 year contract (Hoffman).

I think their GM did quite well.

And we got rid of a lot of dead weight without paying a premium to do so. lol

Petry going to the Habs wasn't on SJ, at least Dubas would deserve the majority of the credit in that regard. They'll get a pick for Rutta for sure. But from what several shark fans were saying they expected a lot more. And we got a 3rd in '26 from SJ, that could be a decent pick for us at a time we likely fall off a cliff. Anyhow Grier didn't soil the bed but it's not like he won the trade or held us up for multiple quality assets. In fact only one really ('24 1st).

 

[ChaosAgent]

And we got rid of a lot of dead weight without paying a premium to do so. lol

Petry going to the Habs wasn't on SJ, at least Dubas would deserve the majority of the credit in that regard. They'll get a pick for Rutta for sure. But from what several shark fans were saying they expected a lot more. And we got a 3rd in '26 from SJ, that could be a decent pick for us at a time we likely fall off a cliff. Anyhow Grier didn't soil the bed but it's not like he won the trade or held us up for multiple quality assets. In fact only one really ('24 1st).

He divested a $40M liability on his books.

The Sharks are going to be one of the most exciting teams in 2024 offseason and beyond.

This trade was mutually beneficial. The teams got what they wanted.

 

[Ryder71]

He divested a $40M liability on his books.

The Sharks are going to be one of the most exciting teams in 2024 offseason and beyond.

This trade was mutually beneficial. The teams got what they wanted.

Well, yeah and we got rid of Granlund, Petry, Ruuta who underachieved and Desmith. So we essentially got rid of garbage or at a minimum several underperformers and they got rid of one of the most dynamic players in the game.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Well, yeah and we got rid of Granlund, Petry, Ruuta who underachieved and Desmith. So we essentially got rid of garbage or at a minimum several underperformers and they got rid of one of the most dynamic players in the game.

SJS moved out $40m in salary and took on $16m. If Karlsson was a free agent this offseason not many teams would be paying him a 4 year, $10m AAV contract.
*$20m, forgetting Hoffman
I'm happy about the move too, but SJS didn't "lose" this trade. Not by a long shot.

 

[BusinessGoose]

He divested a $40M liability on his books.

The Sharks are going to be one of the most exciting teams in 2024 offseason and beyond.

This trade was mutually beneficial. The teams got what they wanted.

For sure

But i don't think hextall would have identified the needs of this team, or any other who would want to make a hockey trade

I don't think JR could have even orchestrated this shit

And i highly doubt SJS was driving it... I firmly think dubas laid this out and everyone else was kinda of like.. Shit, yeah man, sounds good to me

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the only way San Jose "lost" this trade was by not retaining more to get additional futures. But for only retaining $1.5 million, they certainly didn't do bad.

San Jose was screwed by Karlsson demanding a trade during the flat cap era. There was no realistic way they were going to do better than a bunch of cap dumps and a 1st for Karlsson if they weren't willing to retain more. In the end, I think all sides come out of this deal happy. San Jose can flip Granlund, Hoffman and Rutta for additional picks in the future.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think the only way San Jose "lost" this trade was by not retaining more to get additional futures. But for only retaining $1.5 million, they certainly didn't do bad.

San Jose was screwed by Karlsson demanding a trade during the flat cap era. There was no realistic way they were going to do better than a bunch of cap dumps and a 1st for Karlsson if they weren't willing to retain more. In the end, I think all sides come out of this deal happy. San Jose can flip Granlund, Hoffman and Rutta for additional picks in the future.

So what are they actually gonna do with the 4.25M they saved over the next 4 years?
They're not making the playoffs in any of them.

 

[Turin]

So what are they actually gonna do with the 4.25M they saved over the next 4 years?
They're not making the playoffs in any of them.

Hard to say who's responsible for only 1.5 retention. Was Dubas even willing to give up more than a 1st if SJ was willing to retain more?

 

[Empoleon8771]

So what are they actually gonna do with the 4.25M they saved over the next 4 years?
They're not making the playoffs in any of them.

They'll be able to flip Granlund, Hoffman and Rutta for likely a 2nd and 2 3rds and then be completely free of their cap hits after 2024-2025.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Hard to say who's responsible for only 1.5 retention. Was Dubas even willing to give up more than a 1st if SJ was willing to retain more?

If he came at 5.75M? For sure he would give up more. Because at that cap hit, you could trade him again in a few years and recoup something nice.
We know who's responsible anyway. It's the Sharks owner. He was unwilling to go beyond like 30% or whatever it was.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

They'll be able to flip Granlund, Hoffman and Rutta for likely a 2nd and 2 3rds and then be completely free of their cap hits after 2024-2025.

Granlund is negative value. You get nothing in return.
Rutta gets you what, like a 3rd or 2nd at best? For a bottom pair D-man his cap hit isn't small.
Hoffman at 4.5M? For a one-dimensional 35 point guy the last 2 years? I don't think you can even get a 3rd for him at that cap hit.

Not sure the owner would be willing to retain 50% on these guys for the next 2 years to get something better back, when they already have EK's retention. Maybe Hoffman for the 1 year, but I'm not convinced he commands a 3rd at 2.25M. Meh. Maybe.

Edit: Actually wait. They only have 1 retention spot left, with Burns on the books.

 

[Ryder71]

SJS moved out $40m in salary and took on $16m. If Karlsson was a free agent this offseason not many teams would be paying him a 4 year, $10m AAV contract.
*$20m, forgetting Hoffman
I'm happy about the move too, but SJS didn't "lose" this trade. Not by a long shot.

You act as though we took on a freakin cap dump. My lord we got a generational talent. And that money is over a four year period with a cap very likely to rise considerably in that time. Context is important here. They got ONE prime asset big freakin deal!, and though they got our 1st next year we recouped a 3rd in '26, got a generational talent and got rid of guys who in the scheme of things wouldn't do much to help us. This is a big win for PIT! SJ didn't get obliterated but they didn't exactly win the day either. Hell, I think the Habs did a fair bit better than the Sharks if you look at it objectively.

Granlund is negative value. You get nothing in return.
Rutta gets you what, like a 3rd or 2nd at best? For a bottom pair D-man his cap hit isn't small.
Hoffman at 4.5M? For a one-dimensional 35 point guy the last 2 years? I don't think you can even get a 3rd for him at that cap hit.

Not sure the owner would be willing to retain 50% on these guys for the next 2 years to get something better back, when they already have EK's retention. Maybe Hoffman for the 1 year, but I'm not convinced he commands a 3rd at 2.25M. Meh. Maybe.

Edit: Actually wait. They only have 1 retention spot left, with Burns on the books.

Yeah as it stands now Granlund holds minimal value, agreed. Although with a decent showing maybe he gets a late rounder, who knows.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You act as though we took on a freakin cap dump. My lord we got a generational talent. And that money is over a four year period with a cap very likely to rise considerably in that time. Context is important here. They got ONE prime asset big freakin deal!, and though they got our 1st next year we recouped a 3rd in '26, got a generational talent and got rid of guys who in the scheme of things wouldn't do much to help us. This is a big win for PIT! SJ didn't get obliterated but they didn't exactly win the day either. Hell, I think the Habs did a fair bit better than the Sharks if you look at it objectively.

I think of it as 11.5M for EK, because we had to retain on Petry to replace him. It's a lot for EK if he gets like 60-70 points and sucks defensively.
It's too much for any D-man almost, outside of like Makar.

 

[Ryder71]

I think of it as 11.5M for EK, because we had to retain on Petry to replace him. It's a lot for EK if he gets like 60-70 points and sucks defensively.
It's too much for any D-man almost, outside of like Makar.

We're retaining on Petry for two years, not four, so there is a difference. And that has more to do with the Habs than the sharks. I think Montreal extracted very good value. We got an all world player, rid of most of our deadweight, no young players or high end prospects. And saved three mil on the cap.

I'd give PIT an A
Habs A-
SJ C+

 

[AuroraBorealis]

We're retaining on Petry for two years, not four, so there is a difference. And that has more to do with the Habs than the sharks. I think Montreal extracted very good value.

I'd give PIT an A
Habs A-
SJ C+

Yeah but we don't need the space in years 3 and 4 because we're not making the playoffs then. We needed the space now, to supplement the Forward group, or at least to keep Rutta and DeSmith.
Now we gotta pray for a good season from Ned and Chad. Ugh.

Montreal exploited both teams' desperation masterfully here for sure. They came out like bandits.

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah but we don't need the space in years 3 and 4 because we're not making the playoffs then. We needed the space now, to supplement the Forward group, or at least to keep Rutta and DeSmith.
Now we gotta pray for a good season from Ned and Chad. Ugh.

Montreal exploited both teams' desperation masterfully here for sure. They came out like bandits.

In years three and four we can take on cap dumps if need be and accrue picks and prospects. With the pandemic behind us and the cap sure to rise we should either be able to sign some good players if we're still relevant OR take on cap dumps like I said to enhance and expedite a re-tool/rebuild

 

[Empoleon8771]

Granlund is negative value. You get nothing in return.
Rutta gets you what, like a 3rd or 2nd at best? For a bottom pair D-man his cap hit isn't small.
Hoffman at 4.5M? For a one-dimensional 35 point guy the last 2 years? I don't think you can even get a 3rd for him at that cap hit.

Not sure the owner would be willing to retain 50% on these guys for the next 2 years to get something better back, when they already have EK's retention. Maybe Hoffman for the 1 year, but I'm not convinced he commands a 3rd at 2.25M. Meh. Maybe.

Edit: Actually wait. They only have 1 retention spot left, with Burns on the books.

They'll get a 3rd back for Hoffman and Granlund as rentals and they'll get a 2nd back for Rutta as a rental. That's where my 2nd and 2 3rds comment comes from.

 

[Ryder71]

For Dubas to navigate this scenario as well as he did should impress any PIT fan. At least the local media is giving him props as is some national guys. He undid most of Hextalls mess, got an all world player all without mortgaging the future. Pretty spectacular.

 

[Peat]

a) I'm not sure the Sharks will get anything for Hoffman and Granlund as rentals. It's getting harder and harder to get any value for empty calorie scorers.

b) The Sharks did this because they wanted to get rid of Erik Karlsson. That's their prize. Their win in the Karlsson trade is no more Karlsson. Minimal retention and a 1st is gravy.

Getting rid of Karlsson is good for them as it lets them enter a new era, it stops him ruining their draft positioning, and try using that cap room for their advantage sooner. Could they have got more with more retention, but never know what might come up. Maybe they draft Eiserman and Mooney over the next two years and are looking at rebuilding pronto in 2025.

c) The Athletic's player value model reckons Erik Karlsson's last season was worth 14.5m. It kind of takes the value all stars are underpaid, but it kind of gives you the idea of how smart or not paying 11.5m for Karlsson was. Let's not forget that Geno and Tanger are quite underpaid right now. We have flexibility. We can afford to take gambles on a guy or two.

d) I'll point out now that Karlsson just had the single most impressive ES scoring since Paul Coffey played behind 200 point Gretzky. Consider that as a marker of just how much he can help us if he stays fit.

 

[Gurglesons]

a) I'm not sure the Sharks will get anything for Hoffman and Granlund as rentals. It's getting harder and harder to get any value for empty calorie scorers.

b) The Sharks did this because they wanted to get rid of Erik Karlsson. That's their prize. Their win in the Karlsson trade is no more Karlsson. Minimal retention and a 1st is gravy.

Getting rid of Karlsson is good for them as it lets them enter a new era, it stops him ruining their draft positioning, and try using that cap room for their advantage sooner. Could they have got more with more retention, but never know what might come up. Maybe they draft Eiserman and Mooney over the next two years and are looking at rebuilding pronto in 2025.

c) The Athletic's player value model reckons Erik Karlsson's last season was worth 14.5m. It kind of takes the value all stars are underpaid, but it kind of gives you the idea of how smart or not paying 11.5m for Karlsson was. Let's not forget that Geno and Tanger are quite underpaid right now. We have flexibility. We can afford to take gambles on a guy or two.

d) I'll point out now that Karlsson just had the single most impressive ES scoring since Paul Coffey played behind 200 point Gretzky. Consider that as a marker of just how much he can help us if he stays fit.

This was the argument I made all summer.

If we got massive retention back on EK65 we were giving up huge assets.

If someone took back EK65 for very little retention or none, SJS was fine giving him away. They essentially did that.

I disagree with your takes on Hoffman and Granlund. I think SJS recoups some trade value from Hoffman this deadline and Granlund next. Will it be a lot? No.

But a 3rd or 4th for those two at 50% seems like standard fringe playoff moves. Granlund seems predestined to go to the Isles IMO.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Granlund seems predestined to go to the Isles IMO.

Where he will score 11pts in 6 playoff games vs the pens

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Where he will score 11pts in 6 playoff games vs the pens

This guy thinks the Pens will be in the playoffs in two years!

 

[wej20]

They'll get a 3rd back for Hoffman and Granlund as rentals and they'll get a 2nd back for Rutta as a rental. That's where my 2nd and 2 3rds comment comes from.

And they can pump Granlund and Hoffman's value by giving them good minutes. Plus retain at next year's trade deadline.

 

[deakka]

When we suck in 4 years we can most likely recoup the 1st for EK as a rental unless he absolutely falls off a cliff by then.