Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[thebus88]

Vibes of…





I’m only half joking/half sarcastic, seemingly similar to “the read” I get from listening to Laine talk most of the time.

While I don’t disagree that there is a “humor” or level of “satire” or “sarcasm” in his tone often, I don’t really think it’s very far to how he really feels most of the time. Very similar to what many members of the Laine fan club, constantly express: that he is ZERO part of the problem, when the truth couldn’t be any farther from that, as if this team hasn’t been only terrible with him on it, and literally played arguably the best hockey in the last few years with him OUT of the lineup.

At the very least, his overall demeanor and energy level, on the ice and off, leaves much to be desired. He does NOT have the overall positive impact that many here give him credit for.

He isn’t a LEADER in ANY sense of the word, while he gets paid and treated/perceived by many fans like he is. Fantasy hockey stats and “advanced statistics” be damned.

“Pissing away” nearly a half decade for guys like Laine/Elvis in the hope that the guys we draft because of them take the team to where these guys were supposed to take them.

 

[thebus88]

tall/lanky guys often look like they're moving slower than they actually are.

Also looked at as much “stronger”, “tougher”, “tenacious”, etc, and overall MORE EFFECTIVE than they actually are.

Laine looks slow and weak often because he doesn’t take enough strides and he isn’t “physically strong” or “well conditioned”, when looking at a man his size and/or looking at it from a “professional athlete/NHL player” aspect.

IMO

 

[majormajor]

It seems Laine didn't have problems with Atkinson as some people thought.

That always seemed made up by people over protective of Laine.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

That always seemed made up by people over protective of Laine.

I feel like that was more the narrative of Torts/Atkinson fans? I dont see why people protective of Laine wouldve pushed the idea that he doesnt get along with teammates after only half a season in a team

 

[Marioesque]

I feel like that was more the narrative of Torts/Atkinson fans?

Probably another bus rumor.

It's funny, someone posts a clip of Laine having fun with Atkinson and one guy is like "NOT ON MY WATCH!!" and comes up with Danny All Star videos I mean I love those videos too but no, it is not the same vibe

What a ridiculous hater

 

[VT]

Vibes of…





I’m only half joking/half sarcastic, seemingly similar to “the read” I get from listening to Laine talk most of the time.

While I don’t disagree that there is a “humor” or level of “satire” or “sarcasm” in his tone often, I don’t really think it’s very far to how he really feels most of the time. Very similar to what many members of the Laine fan club, constantly express: that he is ZERO part of the problem, when the truth couldn’t be any farther from that, as if this team hasn’t been only terrible with him on it, and literally played arguably the best hockey in the last few years with him OUT of the lineup.

At the very least, his overall demeanor and energy level, on the ice and off, leaves much to be desired. He does NOT have the overall positive impact that many here give him credit for.

He isn’t a LEADER in ANY sense of the word, while he gets paid and treated/perceived by many fans like he is. Fantasy hockey stats and “advanced statistics” be damned.

“Pissing away” nearly a half decade for guys like Laine/Elvis in the hope that the guys we draft because of them take the team to where these guys were supposed to take them.

You still forgot to write that Josh Dunne, Trey Fix-Wolanski, Owen Sillinger etc are far more important than Laine. No need to be modest.

 

[LJ7]

Vibes of…





I’m only half joking/half sarcastic, seemingly similar to “the read” I get from listening to Laine talk most of the time.

While I don’t disagree that there is a “humor” or level of “satire” or “sarcasm” in his tone often, I don’t really think it’s very far to how he really feels most of the time. Very similar to what many members of the Laine fan club, constantly express: that he is ZERO part of the problem, when the truth couldn’t be any farther from that, as if this team hasn’t been only terrible with him on it, and literally played arguably the best hockey in the last few years with him OUT of the lineup.

At the very least, his overall demeanor and energy level, on the ice and off, leaves much to be desired. He does NOT have the overall positive impact that many here give him credit for.

He isn’t a LEADER in ANY sense of the word, while he gets paid and treated/perceived by many fans like he is. Fantasy hockey stats and “advanced statistics” be damned.

“Pissing away” nearly a half decade for guys like Laine/Elvis in the hope that the guys we draft because of them take the team to where these guys were supposed to take them.

So many words to just say you don't like someone

 

[majormajor]

I feel like that was more the narrative of Torts/Atkinson fans? I dont see why people protective of Laine wouldve pushed the idea that he doesnt get along with teammates after only half a season in a team

That's maybe where it originated. I just remember that when Cam was traded there was a contingent of folks saying "good riddance" out of their belief that he was holding Laine back.

It always struck me as likely total bullshit. And even if it was the case that there was some tension coming from veterans trying to impose high standards on young players, then those veterans would probably have been in the right (the pre-Laine Jackets were a much better team - not because of one player but certainly largely because standards have collapsed since then).

 

[NotCommitted]

That's maybe where it originated. I just remember that when Cam was traded there was a contingent of folks saying "good riddance" out of their belief that he was holding Laine back.

The way I see it not a big deal and not really even worth going over, but the way I remember it, someone started rumors that Atkinson "hated" Laine and was pushing hard behind the scenes he should be traded, then "some people" took that as clear "proof" Laine is a locker room cancer and blah blah and things went from there. I would assume it started as another porty "CBJ looking to trade Laine" rumor, maybe even the first one and then deteriorated from a bunch of new people like myself being exposed to the full glory of certain poster for the first time

 

[Marioesque]

Also looked at as much “stronger”, “tougher”, “tenacious”, etc, and overall MORE EFFECTIVE than they actually are.

Now it's starting to make sense...

 

[thebus88]

So many words to just say you don't like someone

I don’t like the way he plays hockey or what the Columbus Blue Jackets hockey team have been since the very 1st day he has been on the roster.

That would be accurate.

 

[wabagee]

I don’t like the way he plays hockey or what the Columbus Blue Jackets hockey team have been since the very 1st day he has been on the roster.

That would be accurate.

Way worse than the last day of his predecessor. Gimme a break.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Also looked at as much “stronger”, “tougher”, “tenacious”, etc, and overall MORE EFFECTIVE than they actually are.

Laine looks slow and weak often because he doesn’t take enough strides and he isn’t “physically strong” or “well conditioned”, when looking at a man his size and/or looking at it from a “professional athlete/NHL player” aspect.

IMO

big athletes often do look like all of those things you said, but that's a completely different archetype. it's like comparing victor wembanyama to lakers-era shaq, or (in this case) patrik laine to someone like josh anderson or tom wilson. 'lanky' and 'big' are completely different builds.

short athletes take quick strides and are smaller relative to their environment, so it looks like they're 1) trying harder and 2) covering more ground than guys who are lanky. this isn't a laine debate, because this isn't unique to patrik laine. it's not even hockey-specific – it's just how the brain perceives what it's seeing.

here's an example from football that's burned into my brain: binjamin victor's touchdown for osu against penn state.



it looked like victor was jogging, but he ran through the entire defense for a long touchdown. it's the football version of laine going end-to-end against chicago.



yes, laine's moving his feet here, but once he gets up to speed it doesn't look like he's going that fast… then he blows past the defender.

 

[Marioesque]

Severson must have decided to join CBJ at this moment. If you can't beat them, join them

 

[Marioesque]

short athletes take quick strides and are smaller relative to their environment, so it looks like they're 1) trying harder and 2) covering more ground than guys who are lanky. this isn't a laine debate, because this isn't unique to patrik laine. it's not even hockey-specific – it's just how the brain perceives what it's seeing.

Amen. Some people just don't get this, it's like an optical illusion they can't get past.

 

[Marioesque]

Yeah he's not slow. At 1:05 you can see Patty and Johnny knew eachother back then

 

[stevo61]

Severson must have decided to join CBJ at this moment. If you can't beat them, join them

That will just be used as ammo for Severson being bad and not Laine being good

 

[Marioesque]

That will just be used as ammo for Severson being bad and not Laine being good

You know it!

 

[Marioesque]

yes, laine's moving his feet here, but once he gets up to speed it doesn't look like he's going that fast… then he blows past the defender.

This is a perfect example, because he is skating backwards when he gets the puck, he turns and leaves DeBrincat in the dust even though Debrincat didn't have to turn around like Laine did.

 

[CBJx614]

big athletes often do look like all of those things you said, but that's a completely different archetype. it's like comparing victor wembanyama to lakers-era shaq, or (in this case) patrik laine to someone like josh anderson or tom wilson. 'lanky' and 'big' are completely different builds.

short athletes take quick strides and are smaller relative to their environment, so it looks like they're 1) trying harder and 2) covering more ground than guys who are lanky. this isn't a laine debate, because this isn't unique to patrik laine. it's not even hockey-specific – it's just how the brain perceives what it's seeing.

here's an example from football that's burned into my brain: binjamin victor's touchdown for osu against penn state.



it looked like victor was jogging, but he ran through the entire defense for a long touchdown. it's the football version of laine going end-to-end against chicago.



yes, laine's moving his feet here, but once he gets up to speed it doesn't look like he's going that fast… then he blows past the defender.

I think part of the reason people think he's not moving fast is basically once he hit the blue line there his feet essentially stopped moving and so he's " coasting" but he's already built up so much speed. He doesn't need to keep his feet moving so he can remain agile

 

[Marioesque]

I think part of the reason people think he's not moving fast is basically once he hit the blue line there his feet essentially stopped moving and so he's " coasting" but he's already built up so much speed. He doesn't need to keep his feet moving so he can remain agile

Yeah that's very visible in the above clips too. In the one where he dekes Severson, he doesn't take any strides after blue line and just glides to the end. Also in the Chicago video, after he has reached top speed he takes very few strides, you can see Debrincat taking many more strides behind him but still losing ground quickly.

Here his last stride is at the center line, coasts through everyone without one stride and scores.



The D has not been good enough to break out of our own end so they have not been able to feed Patrik in stride, when he's already in full speed. The new D should help in this regard a lot, they went and got two new D who are good at getting out of the zone and Severson is especially good with outlet passing. All of the examples we have used here have been Laine basically skating it himself from end to end, but once the defense is good enough to strip the opponent off pucks and deliver it to forwards who are already moving towards offensive zone, that should unlock more of Laine. He's absolutely deadly on rushes, but rushes require someone to start them from the D end and if it doesn't have to be Laine skating it out himself, we'll see him get way more rush chances.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Yeah that's very visible in the above clips too. In the one where he dekes Severson, he doesn't take any strides after blue line and just glides to the end. Also in the Chicago video, after he has reached top speed he takes very few strides, you can see Debrincat taking many more strides behind him but still losing ground quickly.

Here his last stride is at the center line, coasts through everyone without one stride and scores.

the hilarious thing here is that the part where he builds all that speed still looks slow and it looks like he's not taking hard strides, but he is, because he's able to coast around moritz seider.

ask patrik laine and trey fix-wolansky to cover the same amount of ice, fix-wolansky probably looks like he's giving 110% effort and going a million miles an hour, but laine probably gets there faster. it's all just an optical illusion.

 

[Marioesque]

the hilarious thing here is that the part where he builds all that speed still looks slow and it looks like he's not taking hard strides, but he is, because he's able to coast around moritz seider.

ask patrik laine and trey fix-wolansky to cover the same amount of ice, fix-wolansky probably looks like he's giving 110% effort and going a million miles an hour, but laine probably gets there faster. it's all just an optical illusion.

Exactly. Some call it lazy but it's very productive and effective stride and he'd probably be slower if he looked busier.

 

[Marioesque]

It's definitely not just Laine, it's all lanky players. The player he reminds me the most out there skated the same way and it was not a problem for him either

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I don’t think Laine is slow when he gets his feet moving. The problem is the getting his feet moving part