DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
How many of those picks were generational talents? 3 or 4? And all of them played in the NHL right out of the draft and most had a lot of success. So that's not true.
Patience With Young Players
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Off Sides
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Ok, generational perhaps not,
McDavid, Matthews, McKinnon, were all always going to be better than Laff
Putting him more in the Hischier category is a better comparison. A player who averaged >2Min of PP per game, and played with Hall who was their best goal scorer.
SA16
Sixstring
Was every single #1 overall forward a generational talent then? Because every single one in the last 30 years that could play in their draft year did.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
He didn't have to be on that level to be NHL ready which is what you said. But he was said to be the best 1st overall since Matthews when he was drafted so the expectations weren't that far off.
Off Sides
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I never said he was expected to be the best 1st overall since Matthews.
However had the Rangers played Laff on their top line with their best player, including on the PP, he may still not have been NHL ready, yet he almost certainly would have done better than he did.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Off Sides
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It's amazing that only the top 2-3 selections from each draft are deemed ready. One would think some other players who are the same age who were drafted later on in their classes would also be deemed ready?
It's almost like it's an arbitrary decision based on where they were drafted rather than one that was based on if the individual prospect was actually ready or not.
It happens... usually at the detriment of the player.
I still believe Malhotra would have had a lot more offense if he has returned to Guelph or been allowed to play in the AHL in his draft year. Instead he didn't have the time or space to work on the offensive side of his game and ended up a defensive forward that eventually worked out for another team.
Off Sides
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What I am trying to say, not very well apparently, but I'll try again,
I don't think any of the Ranger draftees from 2017 until even this past draft were ready to play for the Rangers in the NHL in the year they were drafted.
I doubt most 18-19 year olds are truly NHL ready, some are, the Crosby/McDavid etc types, however some of those who are not ready get put in situations where it makes them look more like they are ready than they actually are.
The Rangers organization was not ready to have them playing in the NHL. They were not going to commit to developing those prospects into successful NHL players in their draft years, even in their 2nd years. They were going to put them on the 3rd and 4th lines, and not give them any substantial PP time, as they are still doing even now.
It's not a curse, the Rangers made a decision to go with some sort of hybrid rebuild. They signed/extended players long term to play above those they were drafting. Those players in most cases were 7-8-9 years older than the prospects they were drafting. None of the Ranger prospects were ready to take playing time away from them. That is not really a development plan, that is just sticking prospects on the NHL team because that is what other teams did.
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hackeyman
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May I play Devils advocate here. So let's say all the fans get what they want and all the kids progress like crazy this year. THEN WHAT ? 7 of them are RFA's NEXT YEAR. Let's say just Laffy , Chytil , and Miller make a big jump. We'd have a ton of work to do to keep one of them.
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TominNC
Registered User
Remember it wa hard for anyone to break in before expansion. There were so few roster spots in the NHL and vets were given preference (sound familiar?) Many guys took years to establish themselves. And some not until the league doubled in size.
I'd rather they take a big jump and deal with the cap space later. It would work out.
GENESISPuck94
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WojtekWolski86
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Stares at Kreider's 52 goals. If this organization had patience we wouldn't have 1 cup in close to 30 years. Just look at the guys that we gave up early on have successful careers. But this board is smarter than professionals in the league and want to launch players into the sun at 20 years old.
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As @Off Sides noted it’s a false reasoning to claim that because substantially all 1st / 2nd overall played in the NHL means that each one of them was READY to play in the league in their draft year. They might be relatively more ready than their peers at that time but again in the absolute it doesn’t mean they were ready period.
Personally I also think that the recent evolvement of the quality in the league also meant that the “shortfall” or required catch-up these prospects needed to perform has increased (eventually it will revert back to norm) which impacted what we saw from Kakko and Lafreniere, among other factors.
Shesterkybomb
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Because most teams that get those picks suck, and those players are instantly put on the top pp, top line and any other minutes they want. The teams also dont have to worry about winning or losing because their teams suck and they are likely hoping for another top pick or two. Success can be measured in many ways, Laf for instance has worked on his defensive game and has become more and more reliable, something a guy like Stutzle really hasnt had to worry about. Imo when both those players are finished products Lafreniere will likely be a more complete player where Stutzle is fairly one dimensional. So if we measure things soley on points the players on shittier teams getting tons of minutes are likely to appear better, but imo its deceiving.
SA16
Sixstring
Whether or not they are truly "ready" I think if you are expecting a team to do something that literally zero teams in this spot have done in over 30 years then your expectations are out of line.
Off Sides
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But the Rangers did something different, they drafted two wings, a RW 2nd and LW 1st overall, then jammed them behind a bunch of other wings including, but not limited to Dryden Hunt because one of the LWs (Panarin) that was blocking Laff did not want to play with the RW Kakko, and another LW, (Kreider) was signed to a long term deal solidifying that there no space for a top 6LW.
Unpredictable1
Registered User
I got you on the first go but appreciate another well written post. And that's not saying we still can't get frustrated with the kids not being put in certain situations, we all want to see the shiny new toys put into play - but I think you summed up the team overall pretty good since this rebuild.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Environment plays a massive role in the development of prospects. We have seen it play out time and time and time again.
Look, Kakko and Lafreniere are clearly not Matthews and Marner on a raw talent basis. That is fair.
But I can’t think of many other recent 1OA/2OA who had to step into the type of environment they did. Maybe Bobby Ryan, JVR. It’s about minutes yes but it’s also about ownership of the team, it’s about confidence. It’s about continuing development curves. Lest we forget these are still human beings.
There is zero, absolutely zero, doubt in my mind that if Lafreniere had been stapled to Jack Hughes’ wing and PP1 since he stepped foot in the league he would be pacing for 40-50 goals.
Shesterkybomb
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egelband
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Totally agree. I think a lot of fans look at player development as some kind of puzzle or win-lose proposition.
Like, if the team does one thing, the player will succeed. But if they do something else, the player will fail.
I do think there are situations where a player - or certain parts of a player’s game - can develop faster or slower depending on how they’re handled. But aside from really unusual cases, including injury, I’d say the players generally reach the level they’re meant to reach. Sooner or later.
I think it’s preposterous to think the rangers are “killing” these guys. The offense is coming along slower, sure.
Were these guys being used in more offense-friendly situations, they’d certainly have flashier numbers.
But with those numbers I believe there would also be more mistakes.
The box score numbers stand out more. Of course. but these guys will get there eventually. I don’t see any reason to panic.
McRanger92
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Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
Instant Oat Meal? takes but a minute, but maybe it takes too long?
Haha, surely I am jesting as I know you were being on the sarcastic side. Yeah, surely agree with @alkurtz. People were crucifying Chytil as late as mid to end of last year. Changed in PO's didn't he?
Kaapo is really starting to become a solid consistent player that hasn't gotten on the scoreboard nearly "as much" as he deserves.
He will eventually, and then THAT will be the norm for him.
Now, if only Laf can get over this temporary (1 year behind Kaapo for example) HUMP, then we will be golden. He gets involved enough, and noticeable, its just simply "normal" that we want much more. Like many McDavid like goals. Anyway, giving up on "any of them" and including Schneider (getting harassed here) for "looking like early Trouba" and such.....are asinine, and all they need is "a little patience, maybe much patience.
I'm good, still VERY EXCITED about what this team has and what we will accomplish. If you've been a fan of this team for as long as I have been, you KNOW how we were disrespected and crapped on (org's own doing) well, just think about how far this team has come and how quickly regarded as a "contender".
Count thy blessings.
