Tommy Hawk
Registered User
- May 27, 2006
- 4,226
- 108
what's the over/under on COG getting this done?
sometime down the road and Never
what's the over/under on COG getting this done?
It's still a bunch of emotional gibberish. Campbell is of a similar cloth.
I think most people with a strong opinion on this issue either way have an emotional investment. It's often difficult to discuss it rationally without lapsing into an angry rant.
It's still a bunch of emotional gibberish. Campbell is of a similar cloth.
(they approved JR's MOU unanimously).
Show me the money. Nothing subtle, subliminal or gracious about it. If youve' got the money, Ive got the time...
It seems to me it's quite unclear what deal they think they actually approved, since it took something like 48 hours for that MOU to completely fall apart.
Thats a good mantra to live by, but the NHL doesn't always live by that. Seems that IEH never had any money, yet Glendale and the NHL were willing to give them all the time they wanted. The NHL has been known to sell teams to people that have no money.
I still think it is more likely than not that the COG will approve the newest lease. It is almost certain that they will not provide direct subsidies (they can't), so any heavy lifting that might be required for subsidies will fall to the CFD. So, I would say that the probability that the COG approves a lease is upwards of 90% (they approved JR's MOU unanimously).
I am less certain about the likelihood that financial hurdles (establishing the CFD and recruiting business owners, etc.) and legal issues will be resolved. I am also uncertain about how things will play out politically in the current climate. Folks in all municipalities are getting very nervous about their budgets and the extent to which they are seen to be "bailing out" businesses. I don't think anyone can contemplate the odds on these issues being resolved until the lease is made public.
so if they are not voting on a completed package with all revenues guaranteed then they are not voting on a lease agreement...at least thats how i see it.
wouldnt you think that this lease agreement will have to have those revemue streams guaranteed....that is the difference between this and an MOU....an MOU was just a framework to move ahead on....a lease agreement is a binding contract....the revenues are an integral part of that contract.
since glendale cant legally guarantee any shortfalls in funding, the CFD or whatever mechanisms they are using will have to be solidified before they can truly vote on a completed deal that he can take to the NHL.
so if they are not voting on a completed package with all revenues guaranteed then they are not voting on a lease agreeemnt.
at least thats how i see it.
.
I have seen some suggestions that one of the ways in which Glendale will "subsidize" Hulsizer is to slash lease charges to very low levels, .
lease charges wont make up anywhere near the $20m+ he will likely be looking for.
my guess is the announcement will be 'glendale unanimously approves Hulsizer's framework for a lease agreement. All parties hope that the financing mechanisms will be completed imminently.'
Fine. My kids never pouted much, but if they had, I probably would have caved.
This story about "Relocation not going to happen" is probably best for the BOG Meeting thread, but could probably go into any thread on relo, and the QC, Atlanta threads too.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/2346/relocation-not-going-to-happen
It's still a bunch of emotional gibberish. Campbell is of a similar cloth.
My re-quote on Burnside on the other thread was not made in an effort to put his professional standards into disrepute. It was more of a general insight that all of the media outlets are taking a crumb that they have been given and then running it into the endzone as if they have found the perverbial touchdown. No media personalities have ever been given 'the ball'.
It is more of amusement to me I suppose that the media has claimed finality on numerous occasions and changed that resolution ad nauseum.
You would think so. Reinsdorf's MOU actually set an anticipated time frame for establishing the CFD and its revenue stream ("30-45 days"). Maybe that is what is delaying things... they want to set up the CFD and get it all sorted out before the lease is reviewed for approval. In that case, I wonder why we haven't heard a peep about negotiations on the CFD. Maybe this has all been successfully covered by the "cone of silence", but somehow I have this feeling that even if a lease is presented and approved, there will be plenty of loose threads.
I have seen some suggestions that one of the ways in which Glendale will "subsidize" Hulsizer is to slash lease charges to very low levels, at least for the next several years. Might that be considered a "gift" under Arizona law? Beyond that, I wonder about the financial and political rationale if the reason for keeping the Coyotes at all costs is so that they can continue to help pay off the arena construction costs. If Glendale foregos most of the revenue, they will have to find other sources of funds to pay off the arena debt.
In any case, I suppose that we should see some paperwork soon if they are actually going to be able to take this to Glendale City Council next week, or at least before the end of the month.
I believe it would be, and is one of the reasons this is likely taking so long.Whileee said:I have seen some suggestions that one of the ways in which Glendale will "subsidize" Hulsizer is to slash lease charges to very low levels, at least for the next several years. Might that be considered a "gift" under Arizona law?
AIUI any revenue streams in the current lease that are specifically committed to Glendale cannot be reduced. If one is tinkered with a dollar-for-dollar remedy must be included in any new lease. It's why the CFD was being discussed with Moyes pre-bankruptcy, when Beasley told him in 2008 he thought he could get Moyes up to $20M without violating the gift clause.
I do expect we see something next Tuesday. I've given up on trying to guess what that will be. This is the COG we're talking about after all.
Except of course, right now there is no lease.
Moyes' estate has filed to reject the existing AMULA in bankruptcy and the NHL/Coyotes are playing under either a one year sublease of the AMULA or a new one-year lease under the same terms as the AMULA (as part of CoG's $25M last minute agreement).
If the current AMULA is terminated in BK court and a new lease agreement is negotiated with a different party than the old lease, it is not clear that more favorable lease terms (reduction of rent or parking charges) would in any way be a violation of the Gift Clause.
Now, it may be politically unworkable as CoG has maintained a position that existing revenue streams be maintained - but it may not be a showstopper w.r.t. the Gift Clause or Goldwater.
I've lived their?
I'll have to look back at my posts but, as far as I recall, I've been their only once and that was in 2009 for Christmas to visit the folks and took in one Coyotes games (Van vs Phx)
In just a little over two weeks it'll be twice.
But I digress, I'll leave the question to you, I could give you my best guess but that would be biased and skew the results of this highly sophisticated scientific poll.
EDIT:
So you're telling me that if you would have simply said "IMHO, I think it would take at least five years to get the attendance up to a respectable standard say, 13,000k on average" That would have been twisted and bent into...what?