Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore (UPD #443ff 14-Dec agenda/lease links)

[pucka lucka]

I think all thats apparent in all this is that someone is going to get screwed. If they stay it's either Hulsizer or CoG. The NHL holds all the cards, so I can't see them coming out as a loser. You know the NHL has had to be keeping some key pieces of the puzzle well hidden.

I would love to someday find out what the NHL is truly after in this situation. How much is reacting to circumstance. It's too simplistic to assume that their mantra of not moving teams is all it's about. Are Winnipeg and Quebec really on their radar? Or are they emergency destinations? Is the NHL being wishful in a desire to make large markets into large hockey markets? Or do they know exactly what they are doing?

 

[RR]

I think all thats apparent in all this is that someone is going to get screwed. If they stay it's either Hulsizer or CoG. The NHL holds all the cards, so I can't see them coming out as a loser. You know the NHL has had to be keeping some key pieces of the puzzle well hidden.

I would love to someday find out what the NHL is truly after in this situation. How much is reacting to circumstance. It's too simplistic to assume that their mantra of not moving teams is all it's about. Are Winnipeg and Quebec really on their radar? Or are they emergency destinations? Is the NHL being wishful in a desire to make large markets into large hockey markets? Or do they know exactly what they are doing?

Unfortunately I think you have to follow the trail all the way back to the BK filing and the position put forward by Moyes/Balsillie: Moyes owned a portable franchise and could sell to whomever he wished. That was the first shot of the battle. And we've been so bombarded ever since I doubt we'll ever get a complete explanation or understanding of exactly "what the NHL is truly after in this situation."

 

[pucka lucka]

Unfortunately I think you have to follow the trail all the way back to the BK filing and the position put forward by Moyes/Balsillie: Moyes owned a portable franchise and could sell to whomever he wished. That was the first shot of the battle. And we've been so bombarded ever since I doubt we'll ever get a complete explanation or understanding of exactly "what the NHL is truly after in this situation."

Yeah, I know that's likely. It's too bad though, I hate not knowing things

 

[Killion]

IYou know the NHL has had to be keeping some key pieces of the puzzle well hidden. I would love to someday find out what the NHL is truly after in this situation. How much is reacting to circumstance. It's too simplistic to assume that their mantra of not moving teams is all it's about. Are Winnipeg and Quebec really on their radar? Or are they emergency destinations? Is the NHL being wishful in a desire to make large markets into large hockey markets? Or do they know exactly what they are doing?

Yes, I too dream of sitting next to Gary Bettman on a trans-Atlantic flight & dropping some sodium pentathol into his juice box but it aint gonna happen. The NHL is "reactive" as opposed to being "pro-active" which is precisely why they find themselves in these situations to begin with. Winnipeg & QC are indeed on their radar screens, insurance policies, break glass in case of fire, and no, I dont believe the NHL does know what their doing, which is what makes for such interesting fodder. I guess the question you really have have to ask is; what friends of the NHL & or league insiders hold Glendale Arena Bonds?.

 

[RR]

Yes, I too dream of sitting next to Gary Bettman on a trans-Atlantic flight & dropping some sodium pentathol into his juice box but it aint gonna happen. The NHL is "reactive" as opposed to being "pro-active" which is precisely why they find themselves in these situations to begin with. Winnipeg & QC are indeed on their radar screens, insurance policies, break glass in case of fire, and no, I dont believe the NHL does know what their doing, which is what makes for such interesting fodder. I guess the question you really have have to ask is; what friends of the NHL & or league insiders hold Glendale Arena Bonds?.

Come to Glendale by next Tuesday night and we can take GB (or Daly) out for drinks. Together, we'll get to the bottom of this.

 

[Killion]

Come to Glendale by next Tuesday night and we can take GB (or Daly) out for drinks. Together, we'll get to the bottom of this.

I'll try. Dalys' fond of Diablo Hot Chicken Wings & Gary likes Deep Fried Pickles. Ya'll know of a spot that'll dish that up?. Has a lousy selection of wines, the truly awful stuff like Mogan David, Paul Masson that'll mask the truth serum?. Chicken wire surrounding the stage?...

 

[RECCE]

Then I stand corrected. I recall you mentioning being in the area before.

No worries, you know what they say "Nice place to visit...", too hot in the summer for this fella anyways. lol. I spent six months in Afghanistan, during the summer, never mind the Taliban, the heat damn near killed me! I like it a bit on the side.

I'm saying... placing a hard number on recovering what fanbase was lost and what new fan base that can be grown isn't possible. Too many factors play into it. Winning, of course, plays a big part of it in this market. Consistant trips to the playoffs are going to be essential. The economy will need to get better. How the other three major sports teams do will have some affect on it, although, IMHO, not all that much.

That's what I was trying to say, everyone will have different reasons as to why the things are the way they are, make a mental note, think about it, and put a number down.

I realize there are more than a few fellow Yotes fans who would give you a hard number... I don't share that. As long as the franchise can show continual growth, if it takes 3, 5, or even 25 years, then so be it.

See, now this is where I have a problem, this to me is kind of a 'cop out'. It's that "open ended" time frame that I had mentioned.

 

[RECCE]

I'll try. Dalys' fond of Diablo Hot Chicken Wings & Gary likes Deep Fried Pickles. Ya'll know of a spot that'll dish that up?. Has a decent selection of wines, the good stuff, like Mogan David, Paul Masson that'll mask the truth serum?...

Somehow this popped into my head (having seen it before) Think you could get Gary to this point?

 

[King Woodballs]

So is the lease for sure on the council agenda next week?

 

[Whileee]

Yes, I too dream of sitting next to Gary Bettman on a trans-Atlantic flight & dropping some sodium pentathol into his juice box but it aint gonna happen. The NHL is "reactive" as opposed to being "pro-active" which is precisely why they find themselves in these situations to begin with. Winnipeg & QC are indeed on their radar screens, insurance policies, break glass in case of fire, and no, I dont believe the NHL does know what their doing, which is what makes for such interesting fodder. I guess the question you really have have to ask is; what friends of the NHL & or league insiders hold Glendale Arena Bonds?.

Killion, you are making the assumption that Bettman knows the difference between truth and fiction. That might be a bridge too far.

 

[kdb209]

So is the lease for sure on the council agenda next week?

We won't know for sure until Friday @ ~5:00PM when they publish the agenda for next Tuesday's Council meeting.

 

[AllByDesign]

I agree with you, and that was my point to the original poster. Seems many here like a writer/broadcaster as long as they remain on their team. But once they stray, they're discredited.

It is humorous to see the author's integrity being judged on what way he is swaying in his perspective. All have been on both sides of the fence through this. All are liars, all are speakers of the truth... Heck the same goes for Bettman... Snake, god, lifesaver, creatin...

 

[AllByDesign]

Wouldn't that be fascinating if GI came at this form both sides: "Moyes, you had no right to file BK under the terms of your NHL agreement, and as a result you've hung COG taxpayers out to dry, so we're joining the COG to sue to stop you"; "COG you can keep saying this new lease doesn't involve 'a direct subsidy of taxpayer funds,' but we see it differently, and we're going to sue to stop you."

I think I remember a point in history by which one faction decided to wage war on two fronts... didn't work for the guy with the funny moustache, would likely be a similar effect on Goldwater. I really could just see them picking the battle with the most lilkely positive outcome. When it comes down to it they are all about the win column and less about the 'principle'.

 

[AllByDesign]

I'll try. Dalys' fond of Diablo Hot Chicken Wings & Gary likes Deep Fried Pickles. Ya'll know of a spot that'll dish that up?. Has a lousy selection of wines, the truly awful stuff like Mogan David, Paul Masson that'll mask the truth serum?. Chicken wire surrounding the stage?...

This sounds somewhat similar to how you described Fourier's basement.

 

[TheLegend]

No worries, you know what they say "Nice place to visit...", too hot in the summer for this fella anyways. lol. I spent six months in Afghanistan, during the summer, never mind the Taliban, the heat damn near killed me! I like it a bit on the side.

Believe it or not.... It did snow here 3 years ago. Not enough to plow the streets with but it added some uniqueness.

That's what I was trying to say, everyone will have different reasons as to why the things are the way they are, make a mental note, think about it, and put a number down.

Looks like we were both trying to say similar things... but from different angles.

See, now this is where I have a problem, this to me is kind of a 'cop out'. It's that "open ended" time frame that I had mentioned.

After thinking about it.... my response was the exact opposite and is just as bad. Needed to say "substantial growth"... not just any. Currently I think attendence is up 8% over the same period last year? And revenues are way up (because of no drastic ticket discounts). I don't consider that real growth yet because we're still at the bottom of the rabbit hole wondering what else is going to fall in.

In the end it won't matter what any of us think..... it'll be what Hulsizer defines as substantial.

 

[TheLegend]

So is the lease for sure on the council agenda next week?

If it isn't, then this board will probably implode.

 

[RAgIn]

If it isn't, then this board will probably implode.

I will poop my pants if it ain't on the agenda for Tuesday.

What's the next scenario, an Emergency Council Meeting, with no citizens? Just the mayor, the council, Beasley, lawyers and Hulsizer and his possee?

Uh oh...that can't be good.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

I wouldn't be too surprised if it wasn't on the agenda. Like anything else, these things usually come right down to the deadline.

 

[Fourier]

This sounds somewhat similar to how you described Fourier's basement.

Hey, we haven't had the chicken wire up for ages.

 

[King Woodballs]

We won't know for sure until Friday @ ~5:00PM when they publish the agenda for next Tuesday's Council meeting.

Okay, thanks for the info!

 

[AllByDesign]

Hey, we haven't had the chicken wire up for ages.

Meh... French name in a German town... you never know.

 

[cheswick]

I will poop my pants if it ain't on the agenda for Tuesday.

What's the next scenario, an Emergency Council Meeting, with no citizens? Just the mayor, the council, Beasley, lawyers and Hulsizer and his possee?

Uh oh...that can't be good.

COG spokesperson said if it's not on teh agenda for Tuesday they can call a council meeting with 24 hours notice given but that the liklihood would be Tuesday but they were still working on it

 

[Whileee]

COG spokesperson said if it's not on teh agenda for Tuesday they can call a council meeting with 24 hours notice given but that the liklihood would be Tuesday but they were still working on it

As I recall, I think that they need to publish the document publicly and allow the public to review for at least a couple of days before considering its approval in city council. So while they need not approve this at a regularly scheduled council meeting, they probably need a few days lead time once the lease is finalized.

I will be very surprised if we don't see a lease by next week (if not in time for the Tuesday city council meeting). What will be interesting to see is how many loose threads have been tied up. In particular, it will be interesting to see how far along they are in establishing the CFD funding mechanisms, and whether any potential legal issues have been addressed already. The COG have already shown themselves to be quite content to approve unrealistic lease plans (see Reinsdorf's MOU). I think that it is reasonable to presume that the extended period of time spent in negotiating this lease has included much of the work to ensure that the supportive mechanisms are also in place.

One thought has occurred to me in relation to the potential for success: the actual competence of the Glendale City Manager to negotiate and execute a deal. So far, they haven't inspired with confidence, and a very complicated deal like this will require a lot of hard and skilled work, particularly to sort out the CFD mechanisms and negotiate them with the principals.

 

[LadyStanley]

As I recall, I think that they need to publish the document publicly and allow the public to review for at least a couple of days before considering its approval in city council. So while they need not approve this at a regularly scheduled council meeting, they probably need a few days lead time once the lease is finalized.

Only 24 hours.

 

[cheswick]

As Lady Stanley noted by law it's only 24 hours needed but generally for a Tuesday meeting they release the agenda the Friday before.

The article I was referring to:

Glendale spokeswoman Julie Frisoni confirmed Dec. 14 is the goal, but said parties are continuing to finalize the lease this week. If negotiations were to take more time, the council can call a special meeting with 24 hours' notice for a vote. Council meetings start at 7 p.m. in the council chambers at City Hall, 5850 W. Glendale Ave.

The NHL has required Glendale to seal an agreement with a Coyotes buyer by Dec. 31. Otherwise the league could seek to move the team elsewhere.

"Barring a special meeting and with the deadline the NHL has set, there would be a high likelihood it will be at that (Dec. 14) meeting," Frisoni said. But "people are still working as we speak."