Panarin: Yes or No?

[TheBloodyNine]

They tried and got screwed out of Crosby. They tried to ice a ****ty team after the lockout and the team ended up playing well. What did you want them to do? Purposely ice an even worse team? Honestly, have you ever played the game? Know how it feels to step out onto the ice and know you're at a humungous disadvantage before they even drop the puck. Is that the culture you want here? Do you understand the pride players have in the locker room? The coaches? You have any idea how stupid it is to purposely try and lose in professional sports? Especially in a sport where being the worse team doesn't guarantee you the 1st pick? Have they made stupid moves? For sure. Every team does. Every team makes an awful trade. But how is your way working out for teams like Edmonton and Buffalo? How'd the teams you wish you had like Tampa and Toronto make out in the playoffs this year?

Edmonton and Buffalo are bad because they have bad management not because they have young players on their team. Losing is a mentality. Just because you lose doesn't mean that's the mentality you are subscribing to. The Rangers have much better management and coaching staffs than either of those teams you've mentioned. The team will lose because they are young and learning and not developed. They will then add more players. This "losing mentality" myth is the next thing that needs to go. Panarin is not some sort of Messier-type leader that he is being made out to be.

I'm sorry that you are not a fan of the rebuild but that's the reality of the situation that we are in.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

There is nothing proven. That is just your opinion. As many have pointed out to you, you are no expert in the field of rebuilds

I certainly have the wherewithal to look at the words and actions of the general manager of this team over the last 2 years, as well as the President who was just brought in to develop something that is both logical and fits with common sense, something you seem incapable of doing because it doesn't jibe with what you want. Sorry.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Another hypothetical if they don’t get Panarin: what’s the backup plan? I’m still assuming they’re trading Kreider, but I also think they’re going to want another layer of support for Mika to help ease the burden on the rookies. I already am expecting them to bring in some 4A players like Daniel Carr to help the 4th line and Hartford. Who can they bring in that adds something now as well as for the future?

 

[Off Sides]

I don't think it hinges on the prospect, so much as the different components --- aka Kreider, what they view as a timetable, what opportunities they seem coming down the pike, etc.

But all in all, I get the sense that they're not quite as sold on the sign Panarin/trade assets for an established player route as some might be.

If Kreider being traded is going to lead to a Panarin signing, I'd rather they just kept Kreider and sold him next deadline.

Not having Panarin at ages 33-34-35 with a ~11M cap hit is worth them not moving up in 2019, yet still adding an extra pick in 2020.

Yet if they do want to sign Panarin, they may as well just keep Kreider too non extended, self rent him if they are in playoff position. They can buyout some D, sign or trade youth/picks for some others. Panarin is a playoff move, he only likely has 4 or 5 good ones left in him. No reason to waste them.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Another hypothetical if they don’t get Panarin: what’s the backup plan? I’m still assuming they’re trading Kreider, but I also think they’re going to want another layer of support for Mika to help ease the burden on the rookies. I already am expecting them to bring in some 4A players like Daniel Carr to help the 4th line and Hartford. Who can they bring in that adds something now as well as for the future?

I think the plan is to stay the course of the rebuild.

 

[Edge]

Totally. And again, I'm not advocating signing Panarin or Karlsson or a bunch of FAs this summer in hopes of making the playoffs, at the expense of Kakko, Kravtsov and co. I'm cool with them staying the course but if they sign Panarin, I don't think what they're trying to accomplish suddenly goes up in smoke or means they've reverted to their 'old school' ways. It's funny though, people bring up Chicago and Pittsburgh but dismiss Edmonton and Buffalo because of bad management or geographic location. You can't have it both ways.

I have to tell you, I really hate the Edmonton and Buffalo comparisons. I just think there's too much of a difference there.

If we fail, it won't be because we went the Edmonton and Buffalo route. It might owe a lot to a laundry list of other painful decisions, but I don't think it will be because we emulated those two teams.

The reality is also that in the grand scheme of things, what we've been through barely registers as a blip on the radar. If this experience extends another 12 months or so, it still wouldn't be anything earth-shattering.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Edmonton and Buffalo are bad because they have bad management not because they have young players on their team. Losing is a mentality. Just because you lose doesn't mean that's the mentality you are subscribing to. The Rangers have much better management and coaching staffs than either of those teams you've mentioned. The team will lose because they are young and learning and not developed. They will then add more players. This "losing mentality" myth is the next thing that needs to go. Panarin is not some sort of Messier-type leader that he is being made out to be.

I'm sorry that you are not a fan of the rebuild but that's the reality of the situation that we are in.

Lol, I'm a fan of the rebuild. I've said it numerous times. I don't want Panarin either, said that numerous times as well. Look, it's clear you know what's best and that your path forward is clearly the only acceptable way. Hopefully next season Edmonton and Buffalo improve and Calgary, Toronto and Tampa make it out of the first round.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Neither of those things are even necessarily more likely than not, never mind proven.

Itsnot proven. The rest you said? Wrong. But whatever. You do you

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Lol, I'm a fan of the rebuild. I've said it numerous times. I don't want Panarin either, said that numerous times as well. Look, it's clear you know what's best and that your path forward is clearly the only acceptable way. Hopefully next season Edmonton and Buffalo improve and Calgary, Toronto and Tampa make it out of the first round.

I couldn't care less about the teams who are bad because they have bad management. I only care about our team and the way our GM and President are building it.

 

[mulli25]

I'm okay with having an older overpaid Kreider, Zib, or Panarin on the roster when we're ready to compete.

I'm not okay with having an older overpaid Kreider, Zib, and Panarin on the roster when we're ready to compete.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I have to tell you, I really hate the Edmonton and Buffalo comparisons. I just think there's too much of a difference there.

If we fail, it won't be because we went the Edmonton and Buffalo route. It might owe a lot to a laundry list of other painful decisions, but I don't think it will be because we emulated those two teams.

The reality is also that in the grand scheme of things, what we've been through barely registers as a blip on the radar. If this experience extends another 12 months or so, it still wouldn't be anything earth-shattering.

I just don't think you can dismiss those two franchises when talking about how you can only be successful with multiple high picks ala Pittsburgh and Chicago. Pittsburgh was gifted a top 10, all time player and got Malkin the following year? How do you realistically architect that? There are years those kinds of players aren't available. Of course every franchise is different, every GM is different and all that. Obviously the Rangers aren't those teams and they don't play in those cities but that doesn't mean this rebuild is guaranteed. But thinking the Rangers won't screw some things up or that some of these kids won't flame out is a bit naive. What do you do then? Start all over or play the hand your dealt? You can rebuild perfectly and still lose, look what happened in the first round this year. I guess all I'm saying is, I don't believe there is one right way. If there was, we'd see much different names etched on the Cup.

 

[charliemurphy]

Rangers players 30 and older, Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, Beleskey, Lundqvist

Oilers players 30 and older, Lucic, Sekera, Koskinen, Gagner (will be 30 by start of next season)

Is it really that difficult to see why people would prefer the under 30 players?

Rangers also already traded for several players they did not draft.

Comparing New York to Edmonton is also interesting as the two locations and markets share so much in common.

Not comparing the locations and markets. More or less comparing what a struggling rebuild looks like in Edmonton in comparison to whats happened over the last two seasons here in NY. The last time the Rangers went through something like this they started from scratch. They'll have their share of veteran players over 30 and for good reason. Whether its a FA like Panarin or some of their own.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

These, in my opinion, are the likely scenarios with this player, from most likley to least:
1)Panarin and Bob's rights are traded to Florida at the draft. They never hit the open market.
2)Panarin hits FA, Rangers make a low-ball "Shattenkirk" offer, he signs in Florida
3)Panarin hits FA, Rangers make a low-ball "Shattenkirk" level offer, he signs elsewhere
4)Panarin hits FA, Rangers make a max offer, Panarin signs elsewhere because we're a rebuilding team.
5)Panarin hits FA, Rangers make a max offer, Panarin signs here.

 

[charliemurphy]

I'm okay with having an older overpaid Kreider, Zib, or Panarin on the roster when we're ready to compete.

I'm not okay with having an older overpaid Kreider, Zib, and Panarin on the roster when we're ready to compete.

What do you think Kreider's next contract will look like?

 

[mulli25]

What do you think Kreider's next contract will look like?

In the neighborhood of JVR's 5 for $35M, and I'm sure some type of no-movement clause.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

In the neighborhood of JVR's 5 for $35M, and I'm sure some type of no-movement clause.

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. With a huge shit eating grin on my face.

 

[Off Sides]

Not comparing the locations and markets. More or less comparing what a struggling rebuild looks like in Edmonton in comparison to whats happened over the last two seasons here in NY. The last time the Rangers went through something like this they started from scratch. They'll have their share of veteran players over 30 and for good reason. Whether its a FA like Panarin or some of their own.

I think if they feel they need another vet, why not go bargain shopping? Pick up a leftover one year vet who does not get scooped up on the first day of UFA. Maybe even a plus 35 contract who will sign for one year since the Rangers can offer performance bonus money in said contract? Even a two year contract which would have the same end dates of the vets they already have?

Rangers rebuild is not struggling any more than that of the Kings, Hawks, Pitt, when they were drafting in the top spots. Those markets have way more in common with the Rangers than the Oilers or whichever other continual rebuild one wants to point to. Even Boston back in the day did draft early as they finished poorly, they ended up trading Kessel and Seguin away yet they were early picks of their own. Washington drafted early a couple times too of their own accord. Tampa, Jets, Toronto, while no cups have rebuilt while risking a losing culture and turned that around to at least being good in the regular seasons.

What ultimately and primarily changes the cultures of those teams from losing to winning was not the vets they had, or the ones they signed, it was the players they drafted with those super early picks. Sure once those early picks and some others established themselves as good NHLers those teams added here and there, yet other than Chara it's difficult to point out where any of them did not at least wait to see what they had before making a big UFA splash.

Rangers have some players over 30 who are not likely to be moved easily if at all, why can't those guys and the other players who have several NHL seasons under their belts even if they are still green be the transition vets? The roster may not be very good, but is it good enough to compete with the other not very good NHL rosters whether those teams are rebuilding themselves or are just not very good for other reasons?

 

[bobbop]

Edmonton and Buffalo are bad because they have bad management not because they have young players on their team. Losing is a mentality. Just because you lose doesn't mean that's the mentality you are subscribing to. The Rangers have much better management and coaching staffs than either of those teams you've mentioned. The team will lose because they are young and learning and not developed. They will then add more players. This "losing mentality" myth is the next thing that needs to go. Panarin is not some sort of Messier-type leader that he is being made out to be.

I'm sorry that you are not a fan of the rebuild but that's the reality of the situation that we are in.

You are making a lot of assumptions here.

We have good management other teams (didn’t or) don’t.

Losing mentality disappears when the team gets better.

You may in the end be right but I’ll give you another fact to consider. People lose jobs when rebuilds don’t show real progress. Lots of people.

NHL teams, unlike the NBA, are dependent on local receipts. The Rangers announced attendance is down over 800 per game over the last two years. The can count (people in the building) is down about 1200. That’s a lot of money. Another year or two of that trend and all hell will break loose at the worlds most famous arena,

I believe that no shortcuts means doing nothing stupid (e.g. trading for Phil Kessell or signing Joe Pavelski) It does not preclude signing free agents or making major trades.

 

[RGY]

I certainly have the wherewithal to look at the words and actions of the general manager of this team over the last 2 years, as well as the President who was just brought in to develop something that is both logical and fits with common sense, something you seem incapable of doing because it doesn't jibe with what you want. Sorry.

Again, as pointed out to your arrogant being time and time again, that is merely your INTERPRETATION. Interpretation. One more time, interpretation.

An interpretation of which you have made your inferences and others have had made their own. Stop acting like your smarter than everyone else. It is getting tiresome. You know no more, or less, than everyone else here.

And quite frankly you’re just noise at this point because of that said arrogance.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

You are making a lot of assumptions here.

We have good management other teams (didn’t or) don’t.

Losing mentality disappears when the team gets better.

You may in the end be right but I’ll give you another fact to consider. People lose jobs when rebuilds don’t show real progress. Lots of people.

NHL teams, unlike the NBA, are dependent on local receipts. The Rangers announced attendance is down over 800 per game over the last two years. The can count (people in the building) is down about 1200. That’s a lot of money. Another year or two of that trend and all hell will break loose at the worlds most famous arena,

I believe that no shortcuts means doing nothing stupid (e.g. trading for Phil Kessell or signing Joe Pavelski) It does not preclude signing free agents or making major trades.

Dolan isn't firing anyone on the Rangers side and none of these guys are fearing for their jobs. If that was the case, that letter would have never been sent out. That's besides the fact that this rebuild is still way in it's infancy. Nobody getting fired if they are bad again next year.

If they sign free agents or make a major trade it's more likely that they are players who will fit the timeline, not a guy who will be 28 when the season starts and 30+ when they are ready to truely compete.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Again, as pointed out to your arrogant being time and time again, that is merely your INTERPRETATION. Interpretation. One more time, interpretation.

An interpretation of which you have made your inferences and others have had made their own. Stop acting like your smarter than everyone else. It is getting tiresome. You know no more, or less, than everyone else here.

And quite frankly you’re just noise at this point because of that said arrogance.

Nothing really to interpret about clear cut words and actions. You want them to be an interpretation because it goes against what you want.

 

[RGY]

Lol, I'm a fan of the rebuild. I've said it numerous times. I don't want Panarin either, said that numerous times as well. Look, it's clear you know what's best and that your path forward is clearly the only acceptable way. Hopefully next season Edmonton and Buffalo improve and Calgary, Toronto and Tampa make it out of the first round.

NOPE!!! You stop that. You are not a fan of the rebuild unless you subscribe to every single detail of the plan of some poster on a message board.

Don’t you know this by now? You hate the rebuild because you talk about alternate way to go about it. Silly you for thinking this was a message board to have an open discussion about the team mixed with everyone’s fandom and emotions. Your opinions are invalid and a detriment to the organization because we have a poster here who has already seen the future. Get with the program.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Dolan isn't firing anyone on the Rangers side and none of these guys are fearing for their jobs. If that was the case, that letter would have never been sent out. That's besides the fact that this rebuild is still way in it's infancy. Nobody getting fired if they are bad again next year.

If they sign free agents or make a major trade it's more likely that they are players who will fit the timeline, not a guy who will be 28 when the season starts and 30+ when they are ready to truely compete.

I'm going to let you in a little secret, "the letter" was sent to serve only two purposes - #1 let the fans know some of their favorite players were going to get shipped out and #2 mitigate damages from those trades for season ticket holders. That's it.

 

[RGY]

I'm going to let you in a little secret, "the letter" was sent to serve only two purposes - #1 let the fans know some of their favorite players were going to get shipped out and #2 mitigate damages from those trades for season ticket holders. That's it.

No stop. They are clear cut words. They cannot possibly be open for interpretation. No reading between the lines. No change in path or even slight changes because of other events that have occurred since then.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

No stop. They are clear cut words. They cannot possibly be open for interpretation. No reading between the lines. No change in path or even slight changes because of other events that have occurred since then.

And yet not one person could even answer my question about giving a different interpretation to what No Shortcuts means that made any lick of sense. Funny how it works out that way. But hey, continue on in your fantasy land where no shortcuts means signing a 28 year old UFA who's best years will be when this team isn't ready to contribute.