Panarin: Yes or No?

[TheBloodyNine]

I'm going to let you in a little secret, "the letter" was sent to serve only two purposes - #1 let the fans know some of their favorite players were going to get shipped out and #2 mitigate damages from those trades for season ticket holders. That's it.

Which was then followed by a total rebuild and a year of being bad. Coincidences, I'm sure.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

No stop. They are clear cut words. They cannot possibly be open for interpretation. No reading between the lines. No change in path or even slight changes because of other events that have occurred since then.

The shocking this is, Jeff Gorton is notoriously tight lipped. He says nothing and gives no info out, as he should. He wouldn't even comment on Hughes or Kakko when the entire hockey world knows he's taking whichever one is there at 2. Does anyone really believe this letter was our window into the inner workings of the organization? It was a smart PR move. Nothing more.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Which was then followed by a total rebuild and a year of being bad. Coincidences, I'm sure.

He traded a bunch of pending UFAs and two players he didn't want to give another contract to a few months later. If you really want to get technical, the rebuild started when he traded his #1 Center with no replacement the summer before. Do you think Gorton knew he was getting Kakko when he sent the letter out?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The shocking this is, Jeff Gorton is notoriously tight lipped. He says nothing and gives no info out, as he should. He wouldn't even comment on Hughes or Kakko when the entire hockey world knows he's taking whichever one is there at 2. Does anyone really believe this letter was our window into the inner workings of the organization? It was a smart PR move. Nothing more.

I do so enjoy the mental gymnastics.

"Yeah yeah, the letter meant NOTHING. We're gonna compete for it all next year! That makes the most sense! They're lying when they say this rebuild is going to take time! "

 

[TheBloodyNine]

He traded a bunch of pending UFAs and two players he didn't want to give another contract to a few months later. If you really want to get technical, the rebuild started when he traded his #1 Center with no replacement the summer before.

He signed Shattenkirk that summer too. Big time rebuild move.

 

[RGY]

And yet not one person could even answer my question about giving a different interpretation to what No Shortcuts means that made any lick of sense. Funny how it works out that way. But hey, continue on in your fantasy land where no shortcuts means signing a 28 year old UFA who's best years will be when this team isn't ready to contribute.

People have responded to you and you have continued with your arrogance telling them they are wrong.

No short cuts means not trading multiple 1st round picks so that farm system becomes depleted and we have nothing to fall back on if current prospects dont pan out. No short cuts means not trading top prospects for aging veterans.

But not adding a UFA who doesnt cost assets, while improving the team along with giving the prospects elite talent to play with.

To you its a short cut because it doesnt allow the team to bottom out with the HOPE the lottery balls bounce their way. That is simply chance. Banking on luck and chance is not the best course of action. That is the sentiment of some here. In fact it must be the sentiment of half the board seeing as this poll is split down the middle practically. So you want to come on here and tell 120+ Rangers they are all idiots and how to feel. Go for it. Let us know how that works out for you. Because all youre doing are making enemies with fans of the very same team you claim to support who cant wait to rub it in your face. Its sad really.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I do so enjoy the mental gymnastics.

"Yeah yeah, the letter meant NOTHING. We're gonna compete for it all next year! That makes the most sense! They're lying when they say this rebuild is going to take time! "

No one said the rebuild wasn't going to take time, now you're just making shit up. Have you framed the letter? Is it hanging on your wall? Why are you so obsessed with a letter?

He signed Shattenkirk that summer too. Big time rebuild move.

Are you that obtuse? Shattenkirk literally took a huge discount to play for his hometown team.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

People have responded to you and you have continued with your arrogance telling them they are wrong.

No short cuts means not trading multiple 1st round picks so that farm system becomes depleted and we have nothing to fall back on if current prospects dont pan out. No short cuts means not trading top prospects for aging veterans.

But not adding a UFA who doesnt cost assets, while improving the team along with giving the prospects elite talent to play with.

To you its a short cut because it doesnt allow the team to bottom out with the HOPE the lottery balls bounce their way. That is simply chance. Banking on luck and chance is not the best course of action. That is the sentiment of some here. In fact it must be the sentiment of half the board seeing as this poll is split down the middle practically. So you want to come on here and tell 120+ Rangers they are all idiots and how to feel. Go for it. Let us know how that works out for you. Because all youre doing are making enemies with fans of the very same team you claim to support who cant wait to rub it in your face. Its sad really.

It's so obvious what his end game is. I'm tapping out.

 

[Edge]

I believe that no shortcuts means doing nothing stupid (e.g. trading for Phil Kessell or signing Joe Pavelski) It does not preclude signing free agents or making major trades.

See now I don't think most people are opposed to signing free agents or making major trades. But a lot of that is also dependent on timing and context.

When we're talking about where this team is at on July 1, 2019, and we're talking about potentially signing a guy like Panarin for 7 years and $77 million, those are some substantial factors to consider.

 

[True Blue]

I'm okay with having an older overpaid Kreider, Zib, or Panarin on the roster when we're ready to compete.

I'm not okay with having an older overpaid Kreider, Zib, and Panarin on the roster when we're ready to compete.

How did ZBad make it into the conversation?

 

[True Blue]

You may in the end be right but I’ll give you another fact to consider. People lose jobs when rebuilds don’t show real progress. Lots of people.

That is a long ways away. Rebuild is 1.25 years in. Usually does not take 2 or 3 years to complete.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

People have responded to you and you have continued with your arrogance telling them they are wrong.

No short cuts means not trading multiple 1st round picks so that farm system becomes depleted and we have nothing to fall back on if current prospects dont pan out. No short cuts means not trading top prospects for aging veterans.

But not adding a UFA who doesnt cost assets, while improving the team along with giving the prospects elite talent to play with.

To you its a short cut because it doesnt allow the team to bottom out with the HOPE the lottery balls bounce their way. That is simply chance. Banking on luck and chance is not the best course of action. That is the sentiment of some here. In fact it must be the sentiment of half the board seeing as this poll is split down the middle practically. So you want to come on here and tell 120+ Rangers they are all idiots and how to feel. Go for it. Let us know how that works out for you. Because all youre doing are making enemies with fans of the very same team you claim to support who cant wait to rub it in your face. Its sad really.

You heard it here first, top 10 picks if they are not in the top 3 are BAD.
It's not 120+. Its just the guys who don't live in reality. Like you. Sorry.

 

[True Blue]

He traded a bunch of pending UFAs and two players he didn't want to give another contract to a few months later. If you really want to get technical, the rebuild started when he traded his #1 Center with no replacement the summer before. Do you think Gorton knew he was getting Kakko when he sent the letter out?

Come one. Rebuild started when at the TDL 1.25 years ago. Trading Steppan was not the start of it. He then went out and signed Shattenkirk. What rebuilding team would do that?

 

[True Blue]

No short cuts means not trading multiple 1st round picks so that farm system becomes depleted and we have nothing to fall back on if current prospects dont pan out. No short cuts means not trading top prospects for aging veterans.

But not adding a UFA who doesnt cost assets, while improving the team along with giving the prospects elite talent to play with.

To you its a short cut because it doesnt allow the team to bottom out with the HOPE the lottery balls bounce their way. That is simply chance. Banking on luck and chance is not the best course of action. That is the sentiment of some here. In fact it must be the sentiment of half the board seeing as this poll is split down the middle practically. So you want to come on here and tell 120+ Rangers they are all idiots and how to feel. Go for it. Let us know how that works out for you. Because all youre doing are making enemies with fans of the very same team you claim to support who cant wait to rub it in your face. Its sad really.

You have to see both sides. You cannot accuse him of not listening to your logic and then turn around and do the same. One can see where the signing of the premier UFA on the market, to a contract for max years and max dollars could be interpreted as attempting to take a a short cut to success.

 

[effen]

See now I don't think most people are opposed to signing free agents or making major trades. But a lot of that is also dependent on timing and context.

When we're talking about where this team is at on July 1, 2019, and we're talking about potentially signing a guy like Panarin for 7 years and $77 million, those are some substantial factors to consider.

As I said in another thread, if this were July 1, 2021 and Panarin's clone were up to be signed, the consensus would be near-unanimous.

 

[Edge]

We can debate whether things start in June 2017, or February 2018. While I personally think it's the latter, I don't know if six months is really a hill to die on.

I think the overall point is that we're really not very far into this thing, and even if we focus on accumulating picks and prospects through the 2020 draft, it's still not a terribly long time.

I don't know about anyone else, but the 2018-19 season didn't feel nearly as long or torturous as some of the seasons we endured in the late 90s and early 2000s.

 

[Edge]

As I said in another thread, if this were July 1, 2021 and Panarin's clone were up to be signed, the consensus would be near-unanimous.

I fully admit that if his age was a constant, I'd almost certainly be in the pro camp.

 

[BklynTerp]

If you want to sign Panarin and/or can't understand why people don't want to sign him, despite the endless posts explaining it, go look up the number of players in the past 20-30 years who have put up 65+ points in 8 or so years in their career. Then look at the number of times those seasons happened in their 30's. The number is incredibly small and that is what you are asking Panarin to do if he signs here.

There are like 4-5 wingers in their 30s in any given year that will hit those numbers.

 

[effen]

I fully admit that if his age was a constant, I'd almost certainly be in the pro camp.

How many +1s would an army of Panarin clones need at the Christmas Party? Now that's a fun one.

 

[smoneil]

Come one. Rebuild started when at the TDL 1.25 years ago. Trading Steppan was not the start of it. He then went out and signed Shattenkirk. What rebuilding team would do that?

I don't think Stepan was traded specifically to kick off a re-build, though I do think that a re-build was already on their minds when they made the trade (hence getting futures back rather than a piece that would help them that season).

Regardless, the result of that trade--a young D and a top 10 pick--still contribute to the timeline of a re-build. In other words, while the motive for the trade may not have been to kick off a rebuild, the results of it contribute to/speed up the timeline for the rebuild that formally began in the following year (hopefully that made sense).

Also, just to be perfectly clear, I'm not in favor of plugging every hole in the roster with FA's in order to squeak our way into the postseason. I'm specifically in favor of signing Panarin in order to make sure the team--as it did last season--is competitive in every game. I also see him as an ideal upgrade at 1LW, allowing us to trade Kreider at the TDL. I see the signing as part of the re-build, not as any sort of rejection of it, and the money--both now and down the line--is easy to manage with the team's current cap scenario.

 

[RGY]

You have to see both sides. You cannot accuse him of not listening to your logic and then turn around and do the same. One can see where the signing of the premier UFA on the market, to a contract for max years and max dollars could be interpreted as attempting to take a a short cut to success.

I absolutely see his side of it in that regard. I totally understand the concern. There is risk involved. I am not the one saying he is wrong or foolish. By no means am i doing that. He has continually asked for response to whatever his question is now. I simply gave a different interpretation of that.

I have stated over and over again that if they decide not to sign Panarin for whatever their reasoning is that I would not be pissed or angry. I would understand it. But I can see their reasons for signing Panarin. That is the issue in all of this. One person is being obnoxiously arrogant trying to force their opinions onto others as fact.

 

[RGY]

You heard it here first, top 10 picks if they are not in the top 3 are BAD.
It's not 120+. Its just the guys who don't live in reality. Like you. Sorry.

Talk about twisting words. Did i say a top 10 pick was bad? And i am supposed to listen to you preach how you can make an interpretation from reading something?

Please, you just sound comical now.

 

[Inferno]

Panarin is amazing.
Panarin is in his prime
Panarin doesn't have a lot of miles on him.
Players like panarin don't become available in free agency all that often...

Also...

Who says panarin will get 7 years?
Who says panarin will get a nmc?
Who says it will cost 11mil?

Sigh.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Talk about twisting words. Did i say a top 10 pick was bad? And i am supposed to listen to you preach how you can make an interpretation from reading something?

Please, you just sound comical now.

You don't want this team to be bad. Yet the team was bad and now we got the number 2 overall pick. And if we didn't we still would have gotten a great player in the top 10. Sorry you have no patience for the rebuild. They will be bad again next year. Deal with it.

 

[smoneil]

We can debate whether things start in June 2017, or February 2018. While I personally think it's the latter, I don't know if six months is really a hill to die on.

I think the overall point is that we're really not very far into this thing, and even if we focus on accumulating picks and prospects through the 2020 draft, it's still not a terribly long time.

I don't know about anyone else, but the 2018-19 season didn't feel nearly as long or torturous as some of the seasons we endured in the late 90s and early 2000s.

It didn't, but to me, that was because the team almost always had a chance to win. So many close games. The idea of signing a guy like Panarin is that he allows the team to keep doing that, which helps to prevent a losing culture from seeping in (see the posts bobhop and I were making several pages earlier about the importance of a winning culture on player development).

Also, while I think this team is at least 3 years away from being a contender, I want these kids to cut their playoff teeth before that point if possible. Most players are a little overwhelmed on their first experience with playoff hockey. The sooner these kids experience that, the better in my opinion (I would love to see them make the postseason in 20/21 for example).