Rumor: Pagnotta: Keep an eye on DAL/NSH/VGK/CHI if Marner is shopped

[93gilmour93]

I think you’re wrong. Don’t include the protection and then screw him over for using it. Other players WILL take note that an ntc or nmc won’t be “properly” honored in Toronto.

It's well within his rights to use his NMC just like it's within the teams rights to do what's best for them going forward if he stays.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Nobody is gonna hold it against the Leafs if they ask him to waive, other teams never do it ever!

Harley would be awesome but why would Dallas, it’d probably be something like Stankoven + money + pick or picks.

Chicago has its Bedard-related appeal and the pieces but wouldn’t want to give up Korchinsky or Nazar or a 1st, guys like Reichel and Murphy aren’t enough.

Vegas I’ll applaud them and Nashville has been out there for a while.

 

[Space umpire]

It's well within his rights to use his NMC just like it's within the teams rights to do what's best for them going forward if he stays.

I don’t disagree. Just don’t pretend that future potential signees won’t take note of the treatment. Especially if a few teams make similar offers and you have evidence that one of them may not be totally ethical when honoring portions of the contract.

 

[93gilmour93]

I don’t disagree. Just don’t pretend that future potential signees won’t take note of the treatment. Especially if a few teams make similar offers and you have evidence that one of them may not be totally ethical when honoring portions of the contract.

Look at Vegas with the Fleury situation. Players all still want to play in Vegas

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Only one year left on the contract. Handshake deal that Marner is traded to a contender if the Hawks are out of it by the TDL. I doubt they can sign him to an extension though.

Agree on unlikely for a longterm Hawks deal. Which limits IMO to what they would pay to be roughly equal to what they could get at the TD with retention.

A top 5 winger in the league isn’t worth your teams second best d-man?

One year of the winger and 5 years of the dman are important. And IMO Dallas isn't going to be able to resign MM with all the other young talent who will need new contracts.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't think they'd have Larsson on the table whatsoever. He's a part of their leadership core and he's a type of player who is fairly limited in today's NHL. He's helped unlock a high-end part of Vince Dunn's game and the result has been a reliable top pairing right out of the gate. A flashy player won't convince them to move away from that. Doubtful that Larsson would want the move also.

I'm not sure what you mean by "meaningful" or "positive" contributions. I think what you mean to say is established elite, and my argument is suggesting that isn't the best use of Marner as a tradeable asset, because those trades end up being closer to one-for-one and the majority of those established elite players will generally eat up the majority of that cap.

Burakovsky comes in and puts up Bertuzzi's numbers this season, Shane Wright plays a rookie season mostly in Toronto's middle six looking like a responsible two-way guy, 30 points out of the gate and Nelson starts his pro career off on the right foot... Are the Leafs any worse off knowing that the other $6m in cap flexibility is being used to bring in a significant piece on D?

That is how the Leafs increase their available depth. Marner's outgoing contract would facilitate the addition of three active roster players--two forwards in their top nine and whoever the other ~$6m would go towards.

Shane Wright's 20 year old season this year has calmed a lot of the doubts that he had coming out of the draft. Seattle fans would rightfully hesitate at making this deal because Wright is projecting as a solid middle of the roster two way forward as a projected floor. More hype than any prospect in the Leafs organization currently. And a high ceiling at C where the Leafs may soon have a bit of a depth issue. Still actively playing on a

With respect to Larssson, just remember that the opportunity to acquire a player like Marner, in his prime, does nto come by very often.

With respect to "meaningful" and "positive".... Positive means somebody who's cap hit is less than what it would take to acquire a similar player overall player in unrestricted free agency. their cap hit. Meaningful means somebody that would be considered at top 6 forwrd, or top 3 defenceman on a good team.

Marner is an "elite" top 10 winger in the league. There's obviously no expectation for the Leafs to get a top 10 centre or top 10 defenceman. However, it doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me to say that the Leafs should be able to get at least one, if not two of a top ~60 centre, top ~60 winger, or top ~60 defenceman.

This year may have "calmed" the doubts about Wright being an NHL player... but he's still basically flatlined development in crucial development years, and that's a massive red flag.

With respect to your offer, The Leafs would be substantially better off trading Marner for pure futures versus accepting a deal like the one proposed. Sign Bertuzzi instead of trading for Burakovsky... let Minten play over Wright, and have whatever haul of futures a serious team would trade for him.

Larsson is certainly within the top 60 of the league's defencemen. Bjorkstrand ranked 85th in points amongst forwards and 37th amongst wingers; which would probably rank him in the high 40s low 50s amongst wingers in overall calibre given the fact that he played all 82 and there are obvious better players who just didn't play the full season like Svechnikov, Meier, Kane, etc.

 

[Leviathan]

Why would Chicago want to pay Marner? Didn't they just ditch their similarly aged winger DeBrincat (who would cost much less)?

 

[Malaka]

Why would Chicago want to pay Marner? Didn't they just ditch their similarly aged winger DeBrincat (who would cost much less)?

To probably give bedard a solid experience next year in order to help his development and then flip him

None of which is happening for the cost of a young top pairing emerging top 5 shutdown D that’s 6’6” and can skate. Oh and he’s a hometown kid that gave us a great contract. Would love to sign and trade a kid like that for a rental.

 

[Kcb12345]

If I'm Dallas I'm trying to convince the Leafs to give us Marner for Robertson. Stars need to pick up their pace of play

Pavelski retiring and moving Robertson out would be a good start. Not sure the Leafs would be interested though, unless they want the Robertson bros on their team

 

[SSCBLUEJET]

I think Pagnotta is off the mark here. My sources say it's CBJ, SJ or that Utah thing.

 

[HawksDub89]

Why would Chicago want to pay Marner? Didn't they just ditch their similarly aged winger DeBrincat (who would cost much less)?

We don’t

(Well most of us don’t)

 

[Rorschach]

CHI would have to do a pretty hard sell-job to get Marner to waive to come here. Its possible, but I dont think its likely.

Why would they even want Marner? Asking for real, he seems like the kind of guy who would just make them lose draft position.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Why would they even want Marner? Asking for real, he seems like the kind of guy who would just make them lose draft position.

That is what Bedard will do as well.

 

[the_fan]

Someone walk me through how the hell Vegas would even be in consideration with their cap issues?

LTIR Stone

 

[Rorschach]

That is what Bedard will do as well.

Yeah but he’s very young and by himself. Adding an older Marner on top of Bedard makes no sense.

 

[HFpapi]

The Hintz + Harley proposal is just wild lol.

As a Leafs fan I'd do that trade so ****ing fast my head would spin which tells me all I need to know about how bad it is for Dallas.

 

[Kimota]

I swear to God, if the Knights gets freaking Marner.....

 

[Strangle]

Agree on unlikely for a longterm Hawks deal. Which limits IMO to what they would pay to be roughly equal to what they could get at the TD with retention.

One year of the winger and 5 years of the dman are important. And IMO Dallas isn't going to be able to resign MM with all the other young talent who will need new contracts.

Is it against the rules to resign players or something?

Is Marner going to retire after next year?

 

[BB88]

Is it against the rules to resign players or something?

Is Marner going to retire after next year?

You know UFA status affects the value

 

[seanlinden]

If I'm Dallas I'm trying to convince the Leafs to give us Marner for Robertson. Stars need to pick up their pace of play

Pavelski retiring and moving Robertson out would be a good start. Not sure the Leafs would be interested though, unless they want the Robertson bros on their team

Seriously?

The Leafs should jump all over that deal.

No, it's not a defenceman, but it's a 24 year old winger with size and a pair of 40+ goal seasons under his belt, and most importantly, frees up $4.25m this year, locked in next year, and still RFA after that.

The Leafs don't need to clear Marner's salary outright to fill their needs on the blueline and in goal. They probably need to clear half of it from his wing position. While Robertson obviously isn't quite there, he's a lot better than $5.5m gets you, and there are other adjustments that can be made like David Kampf.

You know UFA status affects the value

Not so much in this case. He's in a very similar position to Matthew Tkachuk, who could have taken a 1-year arbitration award to UFA.

Ultimately, because Marner has full control, anywhere that he goes is likely somewhere he's going to be willing to sign; and his contract expectations are probably fairly easy to assume -- $92 to $100m over 8 years.

 

[BB88]

Seriously?

The Leafs should jump all over that deal.

No, it's not a defenceman, but it's a 24 year old winger with size and a pair of 40+ goal seasons under his belt, and most importantly, frees up $4.25m this year, locked in next year, and still RFA after that.

The Leafs don't need to clear Marner's salary outright to fill their needs on the blueline and in goal. They probably need to clear half of it from his wing position. While Robertson obviously isn't quite there, he's a lot better than $5.5m gets you, and there are other adjustments that can be made like David Kampf.



Not so much in this case. He's in a very similar position to Matthew Tkachuk, who could have taken a 1-year arbitration award to UFA.

Ultimately, because Marner has full control, anywhere that he goes is likely somewhere he's going to be willing to sign; and his contract expectations are probably fairly easy to assume -- $92 to $100m over 8 years.

Ah so ignoring all the past examples this is the one that breaks the norm?

Marner having 1 year left on his contract absolutely will affect his trade value, it always does. Being a Leaf player won’t change that sorry

 

[JKG33]

Not so much in this case. He's in a very similar position to Matthew Tkachuk, who could have taken a 1-year arbitration award to UFA.

Ultimately, because Marner has full control, anywhere that he goes is likely somewhere he's going to be willing to sign; and his contract expectations are probably fairly easy to assume -- $92 to $100m over 8 years.

lmao why do so many people think he has Tkachuk value? Has anyone actually seen Marner throw a hit?

he's the Huberdeau in this situation, and a substantial amount would need to be added to get a Tkachuk

 

[Leaf Fans]

lmao why do so many people think he has Tkachuk value? Has anyone actually seen Marner throw a hit?

he's the Huberdeau in this situation, and a substantial amount would need to be added to get a Tkachuk

I have seen him throw a hit both in Junior and in the NHL.

 

[Fatass]

Ah so ignoring all the past examples this is the one that breaks the norm?

Marner having 1 year left on his contract absolutely will affect his trade value, it always does. Being a Leaf player won’t change that sorry

Add to that the NMC and Marner’s next contract will be even more than his current 11. Marner controls this situation. The Leafs should be satisfied if Marner will waive and they can clear his whole contract. Don’t take back money.

 

[Buttonwood]

IMO any trade return is going to be pretty variable, dependent on:
a) the number of teams Marner would waive to go to
b) their cap situation (TOR could retain for 1 year, yes but part of the value of trading Marner is additional cap space, a 3rd party retainer would require extra
c) do the teams on list a) really feel like they can trust him to produce during the playoffs or are they just happy getting there?

It might make sense for a 3rd party team to get involved to take care of B). The team acquiring Marner would probably prefer to trade futures and TOR could then send some of the futures to the 3P for a good roster player and the retention.