Rumor: Pagnotta: Keep an eye on DAL/NSH/VGK/CHI if Marner is shopped

[Subbanned]

Marner + Liljegren for Theodore + Karlsson

 

[francis246]

I'm suprised that Leafs fans think Marner will just roll over and die and wave the NMC just to help the team out if they make him feel *unwanted* enough. If anything wouldn't he try to stay in spite and leave as a ufa? Maybe it ticks him off and he wants to be a villain now

There’s been multiple reports he was willing to waive last off season. Him waiving isn’t going to be a problem. Marner isn’t some spiteful guy lol. I love how we all try and vilify this guy. Said it on the leafs board, if Marner doesn’t wave it’s because he wants to be a leaf. Nothing to do with spite and it would be his contractual right to do so. Sundin did the same thing, same with Kadri when they tried to move him to Calgary.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I don't think he's going anywhere. The TO media really stirs you guys up, combined with the Leaf board's melt down squad.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

There’s been multiple reports he was willing to waive last off season. Him waiving isn’t going to be a problem. Marner isn’t some spiteful guy lol. I love how we all try and vilify this guy. Said it on the leafs board, if Marner doesn’t wave it’s because he wants to be a leaf. Nothing to do with spite and it would be his contractual right to do so. Sundin did the same thing, same with Kadri when they tried to move him to Calgary.

No i know but I'm just saying if Marner wants to be a leaf why would he entertain being traded? It seems fans think that the organisation is some hard ass group that's gonna gonna putt him on the third line with no PP if he doesn't waive which is ridiculous lol.


Your guy's best hope is twitter threats and car jackings ect...wish you guys luck!

 

[Strangle]

Rest assured Dallas will not trade you their second most important blueliner who has shown exponential growth at age 22 and solidified himself as a top pairing stud with room to grow and who is now soaking in 25+ minutes a night in the playoffs, for Mitch Marner.

A top 5 winger in the league isn’t worth your teams second best d-man?

 

[francis246]

No i know but I'm just saying if Marner wants to be a leaf why would he entertain being traded? It seems fans think that the organisation is some hard ass group that's gonna gonna putt him on the third line with no PP if he doesn't waive which is ridiculous lol.


Your guy's best hope is twitter threats and car jackings ect...wish you guys luck!

I agree, I don’t think they are gonna force a trade with him. My guess is they won’t even approach him until they have a trade agreed to in principle and then present it to him.

The more I read, the more it sounds like they may keep him and maybe Tavares or Rielly ends up being moved.

If Marner is moved I think Nashville or Vegas makes the most sense.

Vegas for Theodore, I think it would be a simple deal where you get Theodore + some cap dump or a pick for Marner.

Nashville for Saros and Schenn makes the most sense.

I don’t really see any other options

 

[ITM]

I'm suprised that Leafs fans think Marner will just roll over and die and wave the NMC just to help the team out if they make him feel *unwanted* enough. If anything wouldn't he try to stay in spite and leave as a ufa? Maybe it ticks him off and he wants to be a villain now

I think you underestimate the type of pressure the city can muster.

He can stay and endure becoming the city's sub-hobby. I think he's the type that would push those limits. After all, he's hired security to mitigate unwanted media. I believe that further sets him apart in his decision-making; Tone deaf to any number of decisions he's made whether in contract negotiations or interviews, it wouldn't surprise me, and I suspect the fanbase if he stayed.

If he wants to be the villain and behave in a petulant manner, there are four layers of accountability that appear much different than previous teams:

There's the return in Shanahan's decision making to defer to traditional managerial styles reflected in Treliving and now Berube. I think Nylander's arrival as an on-bench, in-room voice is a major shift despite damage control later. And then there's the fanbase.

Anyone's welcome to simp for Marner to stir our fanbase, but I don't think the fanbase ultimately cares what Marner does and is prepared for either scenario and is looking past his (and Tavares' cap hit) for next summer's redistribution.

It would be nice to maximize some of what's been invested into Marner for a return that helps the club. Short of that, his salary will achieve the same thing.

It's just a matter of time. Repeatedly this season in particular, Leafs fans have demonstrated that we've gone cold to disappointment by the club and defiance by Marner.

And this from a fan who has posed various scenarios in which Marner could return to form in Toronto, with almost unanimous pushback by Leafs fans. They're done; Done with investing emotion into Marner, done with his cowardice, done with his arrogance.

 

[BB88]

Who said anything about Toronto paying anything on his future contract?

We are talking about the one year he has left. Toronto will be paying the bonus on that contract. That’s what teams care about, real money. Every team can make the cap work if they want to. What most teams can’t always afford is to pay a huge bonus plus the salary to a player. Thats why Marner’s contract is very attractive to teams. Toronto will take care of the bonus for this season and the club he is traded to will only have to worry about 900,000k in REAL money which is chump change to them. Most teams will figure out how to make Marner fit under their cap if all they have to do is pay him less than a million in real money. All of Toronto’s contracts are structured this way so those star players are easier to trade at the end of their contracts and doesn’t diminish their value.

Please learn and understand the business of contracts.

You said cap won’t matter because Toronto can retain/take back a contract

Good thing a team is trying to trade for Marner and use him like a rental….

In a real world meanwhile a team would trade for Marner and try to re-sign him so cap really does matter a helluva amount and you don’t fit 12M cap hit just like that

Contenders care about the cap, it’s everything to them and a team trying to land Marner either is a contender today or trying to be one in the near future, so you can go on about your money and bonus structure and teams will in real life focus into how to fit in a 12M cap hit into their cap structure without killing the depth

& if you are let’s say Nashville can you look at Marner as a guy to build around and make sense of his future contract. You don’t pay 12M for complimentary players if you are legit about contending

 

[Doublechin]

Marner + Liljegren for Theodore + Karlsson

I wouldn't trade Theodore one on one for Marner

 

[francis246]

You said cap won’t matter because Toronto can retain/take back a contract

Good thing a team is trying to trade for Marner and use him like a rental….

In a real world meanwhile a team would trade for Marner and try to re-sign him so cap really does matter a helluva amount and you don’t fit 12M cap hit just like that

Couldn’t Toronto hypothetically retain for this season?
Marner agrees to extension after trade is done so retention is only there for 1 season. I don’t think teams are trading for Marner to use him as a rental at all. Teams if you’re trading for him will look to sign him. But I don’t think the cap hit is as big of an issue as people are making it seem. Vegas is the perfect example of making things work, of course every team worries about the cap. But it’s not a big barrier. You move money out. It won’t be easy but it’s doable especially if you like the player.

 

[BB88]

Couldn’t Toronto hypothetically retain for this season?
Marner agrees to extension after trade is done so retention is only there for 1 season. I don’t think teams are trading for Marner to use him as a rental at all. Teams if you’re trading for him will look to sign him. But I don’t think the cap hit is as big of an issue as people are making it seem. Vegas is the perfect example of making things work, of course every team worries about the cap. But it’s not a big barrier. You move money out. It won’t be easy but it’s doable especially if you like the player.

No ….. teams would sign for extended Marner, that’s my point so I don’t put much energy into your Toronto can pay his bonus stuff

It’s all about longterm view, of course teams can add 12M players and be contenders but those have to be the right 12M players. Players who you can build around and drive the team.
This Vegas team doesn’t have a single player making that money so of course it’s way easier for them to keep depth and work around it

 

[francis246]

No ….. teams would sign for extended Marner, that’s my point so I don’t put much energy into your Toronto can pay his bonus stuff

It’s all about longterm view, of course teams can add 12M players and be contenders but those have to be the right 12M players. Players who you can build around and drive the team.
This Vegas team doesn’t have a single player making that money so of course it’s way easier for them to keep depth and work around it

Lol, no teams have traded for pending UFA’s and signed them after. That is the norm in the NHL. Tell me the last player that was extended before hand and traded after agreeing to the extension. Teams always agree to the extension after to make the money work on both sides.

It’s how the PLD trade went down( was extended after) was how the Hanifin deal went down (was extended after) was how both the Justin Faulk deal went down (was extended after), was how the Tkachuk and Huberdeau deals went down (both extended after the trade was done). That’s the norm in the NHL. And you’re looking at it from one view. Who says Marner is getting 12 mill. Teams might say to him, look that’s your Toronto price but if you wanna be here you’re gonna take 11.5 or 11 on an 8 year deal. Which is exactly what I think will happen. He will get traded to a contender and be extended at a reasonable price because they will talk sense into the guy.

 

[francis246]

No ….. teams would sign for extended Marner, that’s my point so I don’t put much energy into your Toronto can pay his bonus stuff

It’s all about longterm view, of course teams can add 12M players and be contenders but those have to be the right 12M players. Players who you can build around and drive the team.
This Vegas team doesn’t have a single player making that money so of course it’s way easier for them to keep depth and work around it

And Toronto is only paying his bonus for ONE MORE SEASON, the upcoming season. Which is why a Marner deal makes sense after July 1st and not anytime before that. What part of that are you not understanding? When it comes to contracts you look at real money and cap hit. They are two separate things but both have importance in making a deal work. Stop replying and go look on cap friendly. No one is saying Toronto is going to pay the bonuses for a team past this July 1st.

 

[HawksDub89]

No we won’t, if PLD could get the return he got while openly saying he only wants to be a hab, the return for Marner who’s a better player will be greater. If Marner agrees to be traded a contract extension will be negotiated. His value around the league is still high. Marner wants an 8 year deal and teams will happily pay him that. He’s still a star player who will draw at the gate.

Not necessarily.

Using Chicago as an example, what motive would Kyle Davidson have to commit 11+ for 8 years AND give up futures in the middle of a rebuild? That’s a step backwards.

This all depends on the teams he agrees to accept a trade to.

 

[Americanadian]

VGK makes a ton of sense with a 3rd team retaining. Something like:

To VGK: Marner (50% retained), Murphy, choice of Holmberg or Dewar (4C replacement) (-0.3M)
To TOR: Theodore, Roy (-3.5M)
To CHI: Marner retention, Whitecloud, 19OA (+3.8M)

Or assuming Theodore re-signs in MTL:

To VGK: Marner (50% retained), Holmberg or Dewar (-1.95M)
To MTL: Theodore, Roy, Marner retention (9.4M)
To TOR: Dach, Barron (-7.45M)

 

[francis246]

Not necessarily.

Using Chicago as an example, what motive would Kyle Davidson have to commit 11+ for 8 years AND give up futures in the middle of a rebuild? That’s a step backwards.

This all depends on the teams he agrees to accept a trade to.

Chicago isn’t even an option. I don’t think Marner has any interest in going there. I think Marner will go to a contending team who needs a piece or two to get over the hump and also wants to sell tickets and get more gate revenue. So Nashville, Vegas, Dallas a team like that would really be where I think he lands.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

My guess:
Hawks: Vlasic + Tor 2025 first back

Hawks are not trading our 22 yr old top pairing shutdown LD who just signed a 6-year extension and has been named a core piece of franchise rebuild

 

[Mobiandi]

I don’t think Marner is durable enough for the Western Conference. I’d be shocked if he leaves the east

 

[HockeyVirus]

Hawks are not trading our 22 yr old top pairing shutdown LD who just signed a 6-year extension and has been named a core piece of franchise rebuild

You would be getting a core piece back. That is how it works.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Have not seen the Caps in any rumors for Marner yet. There was some hope with coach Carbery and Marners history he would waive his NTC for Washington. We have the money after Backstrom retired and Kuz was traded. We def have the need for more goal scoring

 

[HawksDub89]

Chicago isn’t even an option. I don’t think Marner has any interest in going there. I think Marner will go to a contending team who needs a piece or two to get over the hump and also wants to sell tickets and get more gate revenue. So Nashville, Vegas, Dallas a team like that would really be where I think he lands.

I agree Chicago isn’t a fit. But lol at Marner being a big ticket mover. He isn’t McDavid. Nashville, Vegas and Dallas all sell tickets lol.

I agree Nashville and Vegas could be fits.

(Dallas doesn’t need Marner)

 

[francis246]

I agree Chicago isn’t a fit. But lol at Marner being a big ticket mover. He isn’t McDavid. Nashville, Vegas and Dallas all sell tickets lol.

I agree Nashville and Vegas could be fits.

(Dallas doesn’t need Marner)

It’s more about selling hope you’re really going for it. I get Marner isn’t great in the playoffs but acting like he is a dog shit player isn’t accurate either. In the reg season he makes plays I have not seen other players make. That being said he has flaws and needs to figure it out in the playoffs but he’s a star player

 

[HawksDub89]

You would be getting a core piece back. That is how it works.

It’s a positional value thing for me.

Big 22 year old top pairing D (probably a 2D) at a great cap hit.

The crazy thing is most feel like Vlasic hasn’t even reached his ceiling yet. There’s a lot of growth in his game still.

I just don’t see Chicago as a fit.

It’s more about selling hope you’re really going for it. I get Marner isn’t great in the playoffs but acting like he is a dog shit player isn’t accurate either. In the reg season he makes plays I have not seen other players make. That being said he has flaws and needs to figure it out in the playoffs but he’s a star player

I haven’t seen anyone suggest he sucks.

 

[Hookslide]

I want Vegas because I have no idea how they would make it work but it would be great from a chaos POV

Not looking for Vegas to get stronger, but you are right how much fun would it be watching all the other GMs scramble, and see what the odds Vegas will put out there on what GMs will overpay, or make risky trades to quiet their fan base. ..................I could see many tripping over themselves, and their local media calling the out ...........let the fun begin

 

[GOilers88]

A top 5 winger in the league isn’t worth your teams second best d-man?

From a team standpoint, I don't think it serves Dallas well to flip Harley for Marner.

Harley is emerging as a top pairing defenseman playing heavy, meaningful minutes in a good playoff run as a 22 year old. In the long run keeping Harley and the extra cap space his contract would provide over Marner's seems like the better play. I don't think they need an 11 million dollar winger.

In a vacuum, sure.