SeanMoneyHands
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- Apr 18, 2019
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Rumor: Pagnotta: John Klingberg has requested a trade
- Thread starter Kcb12345
- Start date
WhatWhat
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When was he ever considered a good coach? Hes been called a dinosaur since coming to Dallas and had an awful record prior to Dallas. Our miracle Covid almost cup run was not thanks to Bowness. We caught fire at the perfect time and that run is essentially the only time in Bowness's tenure here that we looked offensively competent. We were on such a downward spiral before the Covid lock down that we likely would have missed the playoffs if not for the break. Why would we have missed the playoffs? because Bowness is a shit coach who runs a system that is 20 years old and does not work in the modern NHL
SeanMoneyHands
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Isn't he a UFA this summer? Avs should make a deal even as a rental. He would be a solid partner for Girard on their second pair.
Makar-Toews
Girard-Klingberg
Johnson-Johnson
Makar-Toews
Girard-Klingberg
Johnson-Johnson
Mr Positive
Cap Crunch Incoming
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The issue is that I'm sure Dallas is trying to max the value for him by doing a sign-and-trade.
It might fall out though. The buyers for him might prize their cap flexibility for next year, and the teams who want him and have the space are probably out of the playoff picture and would rather wait until the offseason.
So it might be just a rental price this year. Youd have to wait until the deadline then, and hope there aren't any takers on the sign-and -trade idea
DudeWhereIsMakar
Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
serp
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I don't think he'd sign with the Oilers for less. Edmonton is among the least attractive free agent destinations despite McDavid and Draisaitl.
ottomaddox
Registered User
IHMO it's naive to think that some coaches own a technological playbook and others don't. Ever since I started posting on HF I've heard fans rip their coach and call them "caveman". Taking a team to a cup final is not a small achievement. Some franchises would kill to have that kind of success.
Starry Knight
Tele-Wyatt
WhatWhat
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You are obviously not going to go back and re watch Dallas games over the past half decade, but we have gone from a very modern system that generated a metric shit ton of chances and goals to this new low event game. Its be a very obvious transition that has not been for the best.
As you your comment about coaches, its not that there is a technological playbook that some coaches have and others dont, but there are 1000000% good and shit coaches. Monty coached us to play a low event game. We were low event but high quality, it was a less exciting system but it was effective. Bowness took over the low event but forgot to keep the good part. Why are we worse under bowness than Monty because Monty is straight up a better coach and plays a modern low event system where Bowness plays an antiquated game
He got that because no way Nurse is better. You got to be joking me if you think Nurse is the best, and Klingberg gets $9.5 mil because Nurse set the bar at $9.5 mil. Holland has set the bar and constructed your team's cap in a way that Klingberg will compare himself to the others on that Oilers team.
biturbo19
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I get why Dallas would move on. They've got Heiskanen getting paid to anchor their D corps, they can't really afford to pay Klingberg what he could get on the open market. He's also at that awkward age where you're pretty much guaranteed to be signing a nightmare deal...it's just a matter of how many years of it are a catastrophe vs the productive years remaining.
But i also get it from Klingberg's perspective. You know at this point that you're not part of the Stars future plans, and they can't afford to pay you what you can get elsewhere. They're not really going to win a Cup this year, so it makes sense to ask for a trade to somewhere that's either a contender, or can afford to get that big contract signed and have the ink dry before the season ends (and you risk any sort of derailing injury). Or both.
It also works out for the Stars in the end probably, as they should be able to get something pretty decent, even for a rental Klingberg. He's not a guy you're going to want as your #1, but he's one of the more gamebreaking offensive defencemen in the league still. That's a huge differencemaker for the playoffs, if you can play him appropriately. He'll contribute a ton of minutes, and a ton of points. And his cap hit, especially as a deadline acquisition is basically nothing, for what he offers. So he's easy for pretty much anyone to squeeze into the lineup even a bit before the deadline.
Just sorta reads like a semi-mutual parting of ways to me.
But i also get it from Klingberg's perspective. You know at this point that you're not part of the Stars future plans, and they can't afford to pay you what you can get elsewhere. They're not really going to win a Cup this year, so it makes sense to ask for a trade to somewhere that's either a contender, or can afford to get that big contract signed and have the ink dry before the season ends (and you risk any sort of derailing injury). Or both.
It also works out for the Stars in the end probably, as they should be able to get something pretty decent, even for a rental Klingberg. He's not a guy you're going to want as your #1, but he's one of the more gamebreaking offensive defencemen in the league still. That's a huge differencemaker for the playoffs, if you can play him appropriately. He'll contribute a ton of minutes, and a ton of points. And his cap hit, especially as a deadline acquisition is basically nothing, for what he offers. So he's easy for pretty much anyone to squeeze into the lineup even a bit before the deadline.
Just sorta reads like a semi-mutual parting of ways to me.
thegoldenbrett
Registered User
What do you think of this trade?
Toronto
Klingberg (50% retained)
Sekera
Dallas
Sandin
Liljegren
Toronto goes all in. Dallas builds for the future.
Toronto
Klingberg (50% retained)
Sekera
Dallas
Sandin
Liljegren
Toronto goes all in. Dallas builds for the future.
BfantZ
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- Jun 22, 2017
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ottomaddox
Registered User
You cannot pass off opinion as fact. There's no such thing as "1000000%". You're also just saying the same thing with new definitions. Let's just agree to disagree. In my opinion you are calling Bowness a bad coach because they are losing. I never said he was a genius coach either. I just think it's a little strong to label someone "caveman" when he at one time got the most from his team using a particular style. How can you criticize winning though? Dallas used to play really well under Bowness.
And when Klinberg is gone next year they will not need to trade for a "playoff push"
Dr Pepper
Registered User
As a Stars fan I'd be on board with this, not sure if you'd find too many Leafs fans keen on mortgaging some youth for a few mercenaries.
They've watched Dubas try that before only to fail miserably.
glovesave_35
Name
This is true. But, there is so much weird about the year they did it that some context is needed.
Bowness took over the team from a coach who was fired for off-ice issues. The team was good, so it's not like he took over some terrible team whose coach got canned because they sucked. Then the Covid break/shutdown. Then bubble resumption. Starting goalie injured and rally around backup Khudobin.
They did go to the Finals and played damn well on the way there. But, it seems pretty clear that he took a very "let's keep this train going" and hands-off approach to the end of that season. The team really pulled together and rallied around their assistant (turned head) coach, and their backup goaltender who played above head.
I don't think he had any plans on being anything other than the interim head coach, but then the team went and did so damn well that the GM felt obliged to run it back. And now here we are and Bowness seems to be in over his head. He didn't help assemble that Finals team or give them their identity. He was a steady hand along for the ride. I think it's totally fair to criticize his job now.
SeanMoneyHands
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He would be a good fit in Montreal. Especially since Weber isn't coming back and Chariot is likely gone at the deadline.
ottomaddox
Registered User
So are we talking about the Management now?
I'm just here to challenge the original assertion that Bowness stifles talented players.
Based on what you might be implying The Stars have deeper issues.
glovesave_35
Name
It appears that may be the case. I would probably listen to the fans who watch the games most often and who obviously remember the Finals run in a more dear way than you, a non-Stars fan, would.
The consensus among Stars fans seems to be that even with that Finals run fresh in the collective memory, there is real concern that Bowness isn't the coach to get the most out of the players.
Re: Management, Nill is probably nearing the end as well. His hand was forced a bit into keeping the interim coach on a permanent basis after the Cup run. Bowness never even sounded interested in the job, more like he felt the team played well and keeping the ship going when given the chance was the right thing for him to do.
WhatWhat
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There absolutely is... Im not saying a coach is 1000000% better than another coach.
Does not imply how you read it. Im simply stating that there is an undeniable fact that good coaches exist and bad coaches exist. If that were not the case then I would be able to stand behind the bench starting today and get the same play out of teams their current coaches do. Can we quantify how much better one is over the other? No, but saying there is are good coaches and shit coaches is fact not opinion.
So while there is no way to directly compare coach to coach, we can take a look at Monty vs Bowness who both run a low event system and both got to coach the exact same players during a years time frame because one took over for the other. Monty's low event system was boring but worked, Bowness' is boring and shit.
Go back and watch Dallas games... please. We have not and do not play well under Bowness. Like any team we have some runs of wins, but we have been one of the most boring and least effective teams in the NHL during his entire tenure. The bubble playoffs was not our identity, we caught fire at the perfect time. That does not make Bowness a good coach. The exact same thing happened with MTL last year and its one of the most exciting parts about hockey. When a team clicks they can beat any other team in this league. Good coaches get their team to click at a higher rate.
WhatWhat
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Also to add that when Bowness did take over that year, our play and record in the games pre and post monty was very very different. The Bowness timeline between Monty's dismissal and the covid break was an impressive downward spiral
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