Friedman: Pacioretty in "30 Thoughts"

[1909]

Is Rakell a #1 C all of the sudden? Did I miss something?

Pacioretty would be a monster on a line with Perry and Getzlaf, Anaheim might feel whatever defenseman they trade is a loss they can take with the prospects they have. Although I don't know what their situations are as far as CHL, AHL, and being able to call them up. Pacioretty doesn't seem like the type of guy who's going to drink beers by the pool in Anaheim. Their media interest is literally going to be 2 beat writers locally, which compared to Montreal being the captain of the Habs...It will probably be real nice to be able to go out for dinner as a regular person. That is, if the whole "he doesn't want the pressure" talk is real. Sometimes it is, look at Dwight Howard in the NBA...he never wants to be "the guy" and ran away from the Lakers. I just don't see how it would be a problem now, he 2 years in a row once scored the opening goal against the Leafs...I don't know what his family situation is but sometimes that changes and players just want to be able to take their kids to school, or need to go grocery shopping with their pregnant wife. Simple things like that can be exhausting if you're the captain of the Canadians.

I think that needs to be explored more, if he quietly wants out, actually wants out. I'm sure since this was said or known in the league every team looking for scoring at a really great cap price has called Montreal just to talk. The stories or leaks...IMO if his agent or him talk to Friedman they would get him to spin it so they aren't the ones leaking it. Like Friedman just comes out of nowhere with the "Sometimes I wonder if a fresh start would be better for him, somewhere quieter." line and we're just supposed to assume he was sitting on the can one day and thought it up? I think he's a little more credible and professional than that.

Pacioretty would be a monster too with Galchenyuk and Radulov....

 

[DaNaultinus]

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree about some stuff. I don't value the chance of Patches reviving the Getz line more than I value having Rakell for the next 6 years and him being the best young forward we have who might have a chance to replace one of the twins in the future.

As for Fowler, don't see our GM trading him when Lindholm took that contract so that the team could keep the D core together. I think Fowler ends up staying with us and Vats gets traded prior to the expansion draft. And for Beaulieu, we just don't need him on this team now or in the future. We have Theo, Larsson, and Montour all fighting for a spot on the roster, so no reason to make a trade for a guy who is just going to roadblock those guys.

Would it change your perspective at all if Montreal were to throw in Scherbak or another forward prospect. Then you'd have a quality young player coming up who could make losing Rakell right now more palatable.

 

[Uncle Gary]

If they were serious about moving Pacioretty, I'd like to see him paired with Galchenyuk and Radulov first. I know it wouldn't be ideal for our other lines (poor Gallagher lol), and that Pacioretty & Galchenyuk are very different players, but if it's what it took to shut everyone up & value him accordingly, then so be it.

I agree. We need more additions in our top 6, helping the defence at the expense of the forwards is not helpful. Getting someone to replace Plekanec is far more important but not at the expense of Pacioretty.

 

[lindroshomer]

Do you really think Patches is the make or break piece for us winning a cup? You would think a team like the Habs who are also trying to win a cup would want a player like that...

Patches is a fine player, overrated imo, but he's not going to take this team to a cup. It's not just me who thinks this, this very organization thinks the same (don't give up the future for present success). Look at the TDLs when we were actual competitors for the cup, we didn't give up key future pieces for big names that could help us win a cup. We didn't do it then, why would we do it now?

Somehow I'm crazy for valuing 120 goals for 6 years over 90 goals for 3 years, while also wanting to keep the best young forward we have for a guy we'll either have for only 3 years or sign to a terrible long term deal.

I'm sorry, how did Anaheim do last year with Rakell? That's right, not as well as they wanted. So they can do what the St.Louis Blues did and just plug away for years...You had a different GM when you won the cup, and 3 hall of fame players, arguably the 2 best defensemen of their generation, guys who wouldn't be out of place on an all-time roster. None of them were drafted by the team so...yeah Anaheim went out and acquired them...Chris Pronger was traded for. So yeah Anaheim did, during their cup run give up a 7th overall and a 9th overall drafted player because that's what they traded for Pronger, 2 of their own drafted players. It's been so long since then that all 3 of them are essentially never going to play an NHL game and it's irrelevant but you brought it up.

He's the best young forward you have at this moment, in 2 years that might not be the case. 3 years and a cup finals appearance....or 6 years and the 2nd round or 1st round exit each year. It's not like Chicago and LA have laid down any kind of blueprint for winning now.

You're crazy for wanting to hang onto a so far one time 20 goal scorer instead of putting a 30ish goal scorer into the line up with the 2 best linemates he'll ever play with in the NHL. Perry and Getzlaf need help now...they don't need help for the next 6 years.

 

[lindroshomer]

Pacioretty would be a monster too with Galchenyuk and Radulov....

I'm sorry, what have they they done in hockey? How many championships?

 

[DaNaultinus]

Pacioretty would be a monster too with Galchenyuk and Radulov....

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. I feel that trade would simply make Montreal a stronger team than simply keeping Pacioretty, thats all.

 

[The Camera Eye]

Saad and PLD for Max and Lehkonen

 

[dracom]

I'm sorry, how did Anaheim do last year with Rakell? That's right, not as well as they wanted. So they can do what the St.Louis Blues did and just plug away for years...You had a different GM when you won the cup, and 3 hall of fame players, arguably the 2 best defensemen of their generation, guys who wouldn't be out of place on an all-time roster. None of them were drafted by the team so...yeah Anaheim went out and acquired them...Chris Pronger was traded for. So yeah Anaheim did, during their cup run give up a 7th overall and a 9th overall drafted player because that's what they traded for Pronger, 2 of their own drafted players. It's been so long since then that all 3 of them are essentially never going to play an NHL game and it's irrelevant but you brought it up.

He's the best young forward you have at this moment, in 2 years that might not be the case. 3 years and a cup finals appearance....or 6 years and the 2nd round or 1st round exit each year. It's not like Chicago and LA have laid down any kind of blueprint for winning now.

You're crazy for wanting to hang onto a so far one time 20 goal scorer instead of putting a 30ish goal scorer into the line up with the 2 best linemates he'll ever play with in the NHL. Perry and Getzlaf need help now...they don't need help for the next 6 years.

Well Rakell was dealing with appendicitis last season during the playoffs. And when he was healthy the year before, we made the WCF. So having a healthy Rakell helped us while an unhealthy Rakell hurt us, weird how that works. You can argue that the Ducks should make those moves, doesn't mean we will. Bob Murray, our GM right now will not make those moves. So you bringing up the 07 team is pointless when it's not the same GM. Bob Murray will just no make those moves.

Yeah, they traded for good players, but that was with a different GM in a different time when they were legit contenders. We're not that team anymore, haven't been since 14-15 season. If we didn't make a move back then, we wouldn't do so now.

Well unless Steel and Jones exceed all expectations and make the roster in the next 2 years, Rakell will be the best young forward we have for the next few years.

You seem to believe that Patches is the key to success for us, I don't see that. Getz and Perry are not as dominate as they were a couple of seasons ago, and Patches won't make them dominate again.

Again, somehow I'm crazy for realizing the faults in my own team, understanding our limitations with the roster we have, and wanting to keep in mind our future. We could either be like Chicago or LA, make a big move by sacrificing the future for the present and win a cup. Or we could give up our future and not win a cup (maybe not even make it the SCF), and have no one to immediately replace Getz, Perry, Kes when they start to decline, then we become a bottom feeding team with no good forwards, be forced to rebuild but can't actually rebuild since our market won't allow for that. Not every team can just tank and get an elite forward and be fine and still be profitable.

 

[lindroshomer]

Well Rakell was dealing with appendicitis last season during the playoffs. And when he was healthy the year before, we made the WCF. So having a healthy Rakell helped us while an unhealthy Rakell hurt us, weird how that works. You can argue that the Ducks should make those moves, doesn't mean we will. Bob Murray, our GM right now will not make those moves. So you bringing up the 07 team is pointless when it's not the same GM. Bob Murray will just no make those moves.

Yeah, they traded for good players, but that was with a different GM in a different time when they were legit contenders. We're not that team anymore, haven't been since 14-15 season. If we didn't make a move back then, we wouldn't do so now.

Well unless Steel and Jones exceed all expectations and make the roster in the next 2 years, Rakell will be the best young forward we have for the next few years.

You seem to believe that Patches is the key to success for us, I don't see that. Getz and Perry are not as dominate as they were a couple of seasons ago, and Patches won't make them dominate again.

Again, somehow I'm crazy for realizing the faults in my own team, understanding our limitations with the roster we have, and wanting to keep in mind our future. We could either be like Chicago or LA, make a big move by sacrificing the future for the present and win a cup. Or we could give up our future and not win a cup (maybe not even make it the SCF), and have no one to immediately replace Getz, Perry, Kes when they start to decline, then we become a bottom feeding team with no good forwards, be forced to rebuild but can't actually rebuild since our market won't allow for that. Not every team can just tank and get an elite forward and be fine and still be profitable.

Yeah, the whole 16 games and 1 goal he had that playoff year right? Pump the brakes just a bit. 27 playoffs games in his career and 5 points. Pump the brakes.

I don't believe he's the key to success how could I or anyone know that? He's something different, proven and a higher level. The Ducks can choose to stagnate and chug along, or make a move and see what happens. See if someone like Pacioretty will put them on the next level for a 4.5 million dollar cap hit.

Nobody is going to replace Getz or Perry, they can take their roster spot, salary, they're generational players and you don't just plug in or find someone like them and call it a day. They're going to have to change the team once they retire. Where do you think Anaheim's future is? In replacing these two like for like? The Ducks are probably screwed once they retire. They don't seem to have 2 guys who are playing for team Canada for a decade waiting in their system. Think of the Ducks after Niedermayer and Pronger left...Trading Rakell and one of their D men for Pacioretty is a hell of a deal for them for the next 3 years.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Saad and PLD for Max and Lehkonen

That's....saad.

 

[dracom]

Yeah, the whole 16 games and 1 goal he had that playoff year right? Pump the brakes just a bit. 27 playoffs games in his career and 5 points. Pump the brakes.

I don't believe he's the key to success how could I or anyone know that? He's something different, proven and a higher level. The Ducks can choose to stagnate and chug along, or make a move and see what happens. See if someone like Pacioretty will put them on the next level for a 4.5 million dollar cap hit.

Nobody is going to replace Getz or Perry, they can take their roster spot, salary, they're generational players and you don't just plug in or find someone like them and call it a day. They're going to have to change the team once they retire. Where do you think Anaheim's future is? In replacing these two like for like? The Ducks are probably screwed once they retire. They don't seem to have 2 guys who are playing for team Canada for a decade waiting in their system. Think of the Ducks after Niedermayer and Pronger left...Trading Rakell and one of their D men for Pacioretty is a hell of a deal for them for the next 3 years.

So what you're saying is one player doesn't make or break a team. Rakell didn't make the 14-15, just like he didn't ruin the 15-16 team like you were trying to imply.

Again, we could try, but we wouldn't and there's good reasons as to why we wouldn't just as much as why we should. In reality, we lose Patches in 3 years, now how do we replace him? Maybe we make a cup final appearance, maybe we don't. Is the risk of giving up a good player for the next 6 years, for a guy who might help us in the playoffs (when we have two key guys who are no shows in the most important games already) for three years, at a higher cap hit for a budget team most years worth it? Not to me. At least with Rakell, we know what his contract is for another 6 year a (a damn good one), a guy who has great potential.

I wasn't implying that Rakell would replace Getz or Perry at their level, more so he would be the only top 6 guy who has high potential who could fill in their spots on the team.

In the end, the differenice between Patches and Rakell and what Patches might be able to do here, does not make up for needing to figure out how to replace Patches role after 3 years.

Also, for a team with cup aspirations like yourself, it's makes me wonder why your wanting to trade the better, cup deciding player for a worse player in Rakell.

 

[DaNaultinus]

So what you're saying is one player doesn't make or break a team. Rakell didn't make the 14-15, just like he didn't ruin the 15-16 team like you were trying to imply.

Again, we could try, but we wouldn't and there's good reasons as to why we wouldn't just as much as why we should. In reality, we lose Patches in 3 years, now how do we replace him? Maybe we make a cup final appearance, maybe we don't. Is the risk of giving up a good player for the next 6 years, for a guy who might help us in the playoffs (when we have two key guys who are no shows in the most important games already) for three years, at a higher cap hit for a budget team most years worth it? Not to me. At least with Rakell, we know what his contract is for another 6 year a (a damn good one), a guy who has great potential.

I wasn't implying that Rakell would replace Getz or Perry at their level, more so he would be the only top 6 guy who has high potential who could fill in their spots on the team.

In the end, the differenice between Patches and Rakell and what Patches might be able to do here, does not make up for needing to figure out how to replace Patches role after 3 years.

Also, for a team with cup aspirations like yourself, it's makes me wonder why your wanting to trade the better, cup deciding player for a worse player in Rakell.

With the end goal being winning the cup, do you think you have a better chance to do that in the next 3 year or between 4-6? If Getz and Perry already "arent as good as they used to be" they will only decline here on out. Your team has a good chance to go for the cup with patches, do you miss that solely to have Rakell in the future?

 

[liquiduck]

I'm sorry, how did Anaheim do last year with Rakell? That's right, not as well as they wanted. So they can do what the St.Louis Blues did and just plug away for years...You had a different GM when you won the cup, and 3 hall of fame players, arguably the 2 best defensemen of their generation, guys who wouldn't be out of place on an all-time roster. None of them were drafted by the team so...yeah Anaheim went out and acquired them...Chris Pronger was traded for. So yeah Anaheim did, during their cup run give up a 7th overall and a 9th overall drafted player because that's what they traded for Pronger, 2 of their own drafted players. It's been so long since then that all 3 of them are essentially never going to play an NHL game and it's irrelevant but you brought it up.

He's the best young forward you have at this moment, in 2 years that might not be the case. 3 years and a cup finals appearance....or 6 years and the 2nd round or 1st round exit each year. It's not like Chicago and LA have laid down any kind of blueprint for winning now.

You're crazy for wanting to hang onto a so far one time 20 goal scorer instead of putting a 30ish goal scorer into the line up with the 2 best linemates he'll ever play with in the NHL. Perry and Getzlaf need help now...they don't need help for the next 6 years.

Rakell had just come off surgery about a week before the playoffs started....

No, I wouldn't trade Rakell for Patches. Rakell is signed long term and Anaheim doesn't do " win now " trades that cost major assests.

 

[liquiduck]

With the end goal being winning the cup, do you think you have a better chance to do that in the next 3 year or between 4-6? If Getz and Perry already "arent as good as they used to be" they will only decline here on out. Your team has a good chance to go for the cup with patches, do you miss that solely to have Rakell in the future?

I don't think Anaheim is a cup contender either way. So no thank you.

 

[CHaracter79]

With the end goal being winning the cup, do you think you have a better chance to do that in the next 3 year or between 4-6? If Getz and Perry already "arent as good as they used to be" they will only decline here on out. Your team has a good chance to go for the cup with patches, do you miss that solely to have Rakell in the future?

in spite of what everyone in here thinks..
patches >>> Rakell.

it shouldnt even be a discussion. crazy how some people undervalue habs players. We are not trading DD or some prospect. its PAcioretty. hes fifth in goals in the league in the last 5 years. and his center was David Desharnais. PAcioretty would put up 40 goals with Anaheim. having 39 with desharnais is not soemthing alot of players can do.

IF im trading pacioretty to Anaheim... its rakell and fowler.. small plus on our end maybe.. but thats about it.. rakell hasnt proven anything. he is a 40 point plyer. its all about potential

becuase he has 13 points in 14 games this years doesnt mean that much. if thats the case.. galchenyuk is a 80pts player.

PAcioretty is streaky. hell go 15 games with 6 points.. then all of sudden hell score 8 goals in 7 games... or somethign like that

Pacioretty has 15 points in 23 games and every media, fan and hf'er say he is struggling. he is 53rd in the league in scoring.. and is considered to be having a bad year. with two points next game is top 25 in scoring. i mean its crazy

no reason to trade patches.. but if you do.. he is easily worth a young top 6 and top4 d man.

get real hf

 

[liquiduck]

Yeah, the whole 16 games and 1 goal he had that playoff year right? Pump the brakes just a bit. 27 playoffs games in his career and 5 points. Pump the brakes.

I don't believe he's the key to success how could I or anyone know that? He's something different, proven and a higher level. The Ducks can choose to stagnate and chug along, or make a move and see what happens. See if someone like Pacioretty will put them on the next level for a 4.5 million dollar cap hit.

Nobody is going to replace Getz or Perry, they can take their roster spot, salary, they're generational players and you don't just plug in or find someone like them and call it a day. They're going to have to change the team once they retire. Where do you think Anaheim's future is? In replacing these two like for like? The Ducks are probably screwed once they retire. They don't seem to have 2 guys who are playing for team Canada for a decade waiting in their system. Think of the Ducks after Niedermayer and Pronger left...Trading Rakell and one of their D men for Pacioretty is a hell of a deal for them for the next 3 years.

You realize players get better right? Rakell just turned 23. Using his playoff production from when he was 21 years old and after a surgery last year against him doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Anaheim's future is on their blueline.

 

[CHaracter79]

You realize players get better right? Rakell just turned 23. Using his playoff production from when he was 21 years old and after a surgery last year against him doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Besides, when did Patches all of a sudden become a good playoff performer?

he didnt just turn 23.Rakell and i share a bday he will 24 this playoff season.whereas pacioretty literally just turned 28.. its 4 year difference

at that age pacioretty had a 60pt season under his belt and was fnishing his 39 goal season

i understand you love rakell.. but dont undervalue other players.


pacioretty has 18 points in 31 games

it is not exactly horrible

 

[liquiduck]

he didnt just turn 23.Rakell and i share a bday he will 24 this playoff season.whereas pacioretty literally just turned 28.. its 4 year difference

at that age pacioretty had a 60pt season under his belt and was fnishing his 39 goal season

i understand you love rakell.. but dont undervalue other players.


pacioretty has 18 points in 32 (fixed)games

it is not exactly horrible

Fine Rakell is 23 1/2

Patches was 25 when he potted 39 goals.

Besides i'm not saying Rakell will be as good or better than Patches. Moving out talented young forwards is literally the last thing anaheim needs to do right now. They need more players like Rakell not less. If they are going to trade pieces to get better upfront, those pieces will come from the blueline.

And yet all I hear every time Montreal gets bounced is how awful he was and how he is the worst team captain in team history. Interesting.

 

[lindroshomer]

So what you're saying is one player doesn't make or break a team. Rakell didn't make the 14-15, just like he didn't ruin the 15-16 team like you were trying to imply.

Again, we could try, but we wouldn't and there's good reasons as to why we wouldn't just as much as why we should. In reality, we lose Patches in 3 years, now how do we replace him? Maybe we make a cup final appearance, maybe we don't. Is the risk of giving up a good player for the next 6 years, for a guy who might help us in the playoffs (when we have two key guys who are no shows in the most important games already) for three years, at a higher cap hit for a budget team most years worth it? Not to me. At least with Rakell, we know what his contract is for another 6 year a (a damn good one), a guy who has great potential.

I wasn't implying that Rakell would replace Getz or Perry at their level, more so he would be the only top 6 guy who has high potential who could fill in their spots on the team.

In the end, the differenice between Patches and Rakell and what Patches might be able to do here, does not make up for needing to figure out how to replace Patches role after 3 years.

Also, for a team with cup aspirations like yourself, it's makes me wonder why your wanting to trade the better, cup deciding player for a worse player in Rakell.

That's not what I am saying, I am saying what you said about Rakell and the playoffs is a joke and you need to slow down with those loose words as he is producing points in the regular season at X rate and in the playoffs that rate drops significantly and isn't helping Anaheim win a cup. Which...my assumption is that the now 31 GM's in the NHL all aspire to do when they have a mature roster. You said "Well Rakell was dealing with appendicitis last season during the playoffs. And when he was healthy the year before, we made the WCF. So having a healthy Rakell helped us while an unhealthy Rakell hurt us, weird how that works. " How exactly did Rakell help the Ducks with 5 points in 27 games? Pacioretty would be a huge upgrade over him. I didn't imply anything, you said what you said, and you were just loose with your words.

Maybe Anaheim just cycles through Perron, Etem, Smith-Pelly, Stewart, Sekac type of players while looking for a scoring winger to burst out? That is something they did that didn't work out and Murray moved on pretty quickly each time. So Pacioretty would be a much needed upgrade compared to what they've tried so far.

You replace Patches with Max Jones or Nick Ritchie...That's what those 1st round draft slots mean. That's what the expectation is. Rakell is a good player, he's not a cornerstone of a team that doesn't ever get traded for an outright better player for a team who's best players are 31 years old and are competitive in the short term. You replace patches with one of the defensive prospects who you can't afford to pay and you trade away.

I don't have cup aspirations, I'm not a Montreal fan. I just don't get how you think Rakell is some untouchable player who's a cornerstone of the Ducks once Perry and Getzlaf retire and is so important he's not expendable in a trade to get Max Pacioretty, who...for a budget team like the Ducks is even more valuable than he would be to a team who's not hurting for money as I assume his cap hit is higher than his actual salary.

 

[anezthes]

Fowler & Rackell ! Let's get it done

I'm willing to add since both ANA players are playing extremely well at the moment.

Not gonna happen. Pacioretty is nowhere near worth that much.

Fowler and Rakell are not for sale.

 

[CHaracter79]

Fine Rakell is 23 1/2

Patches was 25 when he potted 39 goals.

Besides i'm not saying Rakell will be as good or better than Patches. Moving out talented young forwards is literally the last thing anaheim needs to do right now. They need more players like Rakell not less. If they are going to trade pieces to get better upfront, those pieces will come from the blueline.

And yet all I hear every time Montreal gets bounced is how awful he was and how he is the worst team captain in team history. Interesting.

this is his 24th year , rakell, and next year will be his 25th

when pacioretty turn 24 he score 33 g and 65 pts. and the following year when he turned 25 he scored 39 goals.

like i said before, fans on hf boards dont make the value of a player.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Fine Rakell is 23 1/2

Patches was 25 when he potted 39 goals.

Besides i'm not saying Rakell will be as good or better than Patches. Moving out talented young forwards is literally the last thing anaheim needs to do right now. They need more players like Rakell not less. If they are going to trade pieces to get better upfront, those pieces will come from the blueline.

And yet all I hear every time Montreal gets bounced is how awful he was and how he is the worst team captain in team history. Interesting.

If you've been listening to Habs fans, you'd know that Subban was awful too and Halak will be better than Price. Just like every sufficiently large group, we're collectively morons. "All you hear" sounds like some selective distortion from your part.

 

[anezthes]

Pacioretty
Beaulieu
Sergachev/Juulsen


Fowler
Rakell

No, thanks.

 

[lindroshomer]

You realize players get better right? Rakell just turned 23. Using his playoff production from when he was 21 years old and after a surgery last year against him doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Anaheim's future is on their blueline.

You realize it's expected they get better, doesn't mean it happens, look at the Oilers as an extreme and lazy example. You're right, their future is on their blueline which is why Rakell is expendable because they can still trade defensemen to fill any holes he would leave. Anaheim only needs 4 top 4 defensemen, 2 top 2...they have decisions to make in the future and it's easier for them to pick up a 5,6,7th d man in a trade or FA than it is a top 4 and 2 which they already have.

 

[waffledave]

They should move him. I'm really not a fan of Casperetti... Doesn't show up when it counts and seems to have lost all his confidence. He rallied to get Subban out of town and now that he did the guy is rattled because there's no more scapegoat and the focus on his lack of effort can't be deflected anymore.