Friedman: Pacioretty in "30 Thoughts"

[Gardner McKay]

The Rangers need to improve their defense more than anything but damn... If a player like Pacioretty is available you have to at least listen to what the asking price is (knowing it will be very steep).

 

[Vern]

So let me get this straight, he "desperately" needs to get out of montreal because he doesn't thrive under the pressure lol. was he thriving when he scored the 5th most goals in the league over the last 5 years? what a joke!! , are his half a dozen endorsement deals that have him all over tv and the radio a sign hes not thriving maybe? lol Then he proceeds to describe why hes one of the most valuable assets in the league because of his talents and contract and is therefore pretty much untradeable, because there are very few ways you could get back his value per dollar. it would have to be proven elite scorers with elite 2-way games on elc's or rfa bridges. How many of those are out there? I mean its not like trading him for kane would help, you'd get 5 more goals and 15-20 more points but youd pay 2.5x more. like another radulov or lucic etc more.

So why is he always in these trade talks? why montreal fans want to ditch him?

1. many habs fans, especially the teens and early 20's (who seem to be way over represented on this board), loved pk way too much and blame max for his being traded. Thats the number one reason.
how do they justify it?

2. for the past several seasons max was pretty much our only, and certainly our best scoring threat. thus he was used in an exploitation type role where he was the go to guy on the first line that you put in on all our best opportunities to score. this was necessary because we didnt have any other players capable of playing that role.

Now however we have galchenyuk and radulov in that role and they are excelling. this allows us to put max with plek on the hard assignments against other teams top lines and top pairings. Why? because he has very strong 2 way play and hustles his ass off every shift, he plays responsibly instead of cherry picking for the stretch pass like his role was in years past. so young fans that don't get the game that well, and only care about points and rushing break ins, think hes dogging it but hes not.

there are a few reasons why the habs are at the top of the league and yes good goal-tending is a big part, yest galch\rad dynamism is a big part. but patch/pleky shutting down top lines and the leadership those two bring is just as much a reason.

so here we see hes playing a much different role and everyone is crying because his point totals are taking a HUGE hit right? but wait since 2010-11 hes been .8 ppg, and this season hes a terrible... .65 ppg over 23 games. so 1 3 point game and hes back on pace lol. Don't you see!!!! hes playing better than ever!! and still producing at pretty much the same pace with very different usage!!! wheather hes the one putting it in the net or not, we are scoring when hes on the ice, hes +7 playing a defensive role ffs!!!

Patches is THE most criminally underrated player in the league, starting with our own fans. There is NO WAY IN HELL he is traded. we wouldn't trade him for ovechkin, we wouldn't trade him for kane, we wouldn't trade him for stamkos.

Dear fellow habs fans, please get over pk. please stop hating on max pac, hes as important to this team as pricer. goal totals for individual players are not what makes the team win or lose. i know we all want to see that 40 goals beside one of our players again, but the team doesn't give a **** about that. everyone of them from the healthy scratches to the top of management want a cup and only a cup. thats why max signed for 4.5, think he couldn't have got more? that is why pk got moved, because he insisted on double and put himself ahead of the team.

and all you other teams fans who see hab fans hating on and wanting to dump max? wake up and smell the coffee, all the proposals you said you wouldn't do your gms would do in a millisecond. because max pac at 4.5mil with 2.75 years left is one of THE TOP 5 ASSETS IN THE LEAGUE!!

rant over, feel free to resume hating and picking apart the one line of my rant you find a way to exploit.

edit: ok many lines lol

 

[CHaracter79]

So let me get this straight, he "desperately" needs to get out of montreal because he doesn't thrive under the pressure lol. was he thriving when he scored the 5th most goals in the league over the last 5 years? what a joke!! , are his half a dozen endorsement deals that have him all over tv and the radio a sign hes not thriving maybe? lol Then he proceeds to describe why hes one of the most valuable assets in the league because of his talents and contract and is therefore pretty much untradeable, because there are very few ways you could get back his value per dollar. it would have to be proven elite scorers with elite 2-way games on elc's or rfa bridges. How many of those are out there? I mean its not like trading him for kane would help, you'd get 5 more goals and 15-20 more points but youd pay 2.5x more. like another radulov or lucic etc more.

So why is he always in these trade talks? why montreal fans want to ditch him?

1. many habs fans, especially the teens and early 20's (who seem to be way over represented on this board), loved pk way too much and blame max for his being traded. Thats the number one reason.
how do they justify it?

2. for the past several seasons max was pretty much our only, and certainly our best scoring threat. thus he was used in an exploitation type role where he was the go to guy on the first line that you put in on all our best opportunities to score. this was necessary because we didnt have any other players capable of playing that role.

Now however we have galchenyuk and radulov in that role and they are excelling. this allows us to put max with plek on the hard assignments against other teams top lines and top pairings. Why? because he has very strong 2 way play and hustles his ass off every shift, he plays responsibly instead of cherry picking for the stretch pass like his role was in years past. so young fans that don't get the game that well, and only care about points and rushing break ins, think hes dogging it but hes not.

there are a few reasons why the habs are at the top of the league and yes good goal-tending is a big part, yest galch\rad dynamism is a big part. but patch/pleky shutting down top lines and the leadership those two bring is just as much a reason.

so here we see hes playing a much different role and everyone is crying because his point totals are taking a HUGE hit right? but wait since 2010-11 hes been .8 ppg, and this season hes a terrible... .65 ppg over 23 games. so 1 3 point game and hes back on pace lol. Don't you see!!!! hes playing better than ever!! and still producing at pretty much the same pace with very different usage!!! wheather hes the one putting it in the net or not, we are scoring when hes on the ice, hes +7 playing a defensive role ffs!!!

Patches is THE most criminally underrated player in the league, starting with our own fans. There is NO WAY IN HELL he is traded. we wouldn't trade him for ovechkin, we wouldn't trade him for kane, we wouldn't trade him for stamkos.

Dear fellow habs fans, please get over pk. please stop hating on max pac, hes as important to this team as pricer. goal totals for individual players are not what makes the team win or lose. i know we all want to see that 40 goals beside one of our players again, but the team doesn't give a **** about that. everyone of them from the healthy scratches to the top of management want a cup and only a cup. thats why max signed for 4.5, think he couldn't have got more? that is why pk got moved, because he insisted on double and put himself ahead of the team.

and all you other teams fans who see hab fans hating on and wanting to dump max? wake up and smell the coffee, all the proposals you said you wouldn't do your gms would do in a millisecond. because max pac at 4.5mil with 2.75 years left is one of THE TOP 5 ASSETS IN THE LEAGUE!!

rant over, feel free to resume hating and picking apart the one line of my rant you find a way to exploit.

I probably trade him for ovechkin though

 

[indigobuffalo]

He's not being traded... we're winning, we don't trade our top goal scorer at a low cap hit when he's having a below average year unless its an upgrade. Friedman just talking, nothing to it

When there was pressure for him to score goals because nobody else scored, he did exactly that. Weird thought by Friedman, you don't trade a player who's scored over 30 goals consistently in a low scoring era because of a bad stretch. 5th in goals the last 5 years, Lol

Didn't Bergevin just recently say that you make trades when you're winning not when you're losing.

If the Habs are winning right now then it makes more sense per their GM to make a move now rather than later.

Although I would agree, any trade likely needs to bring in a replacement piece. Could see them moving him to a Western Conference team that makes sense on both ends.

Habs really only seem to need more scoring at this point, though I am certainly not well informed on their needs, but that's seemed to be the problem for ages now.

Pacioretty is valuable to a "contend now" team that is at the cap ceiling.

So immediately we can look at who fits that bill in the West:
1) Calgary Flames: They think they're in WIN NOW mode so this could happen. Burk... I mean Treliving seems to like Americans so there's sufficient reason to believe they'd test the waters here, and giving up a younger scoring talent a more proven, still young (but older) one is a reasonable move.

Likely offers: Gaudreau/Monahan/Bennett

Although Tkachuk might make more sense I think he's the Burk... I mean Treliving archetype so that's highly unlikely.

2) San Jose Sharks: Definitely in WIN NOW mode, and Pacioretty is an upgrade over some of their wingers. Question here is what they send to Montreal that makes sense for the Habs. Couture+? (the + largely there to offset the cap disparity)... Not sure what else makes sense for the Habs. The added cap flexibility will make sense for the Sharks especially with the Burns signing.

3) Chicago Blackhawks: Already there's a connection here to Bergevin and it's no secret that the Hawks are always looking for cap savvy ways to gain a competitive edge. DeBrincat probably involves himself here, but not sure what else, and specifically what roster piece (and cap) heads back to Montreal. Could see Anisimov or Kruger being the pieces moving back but it's hard to sell the Hawks on either given their value to the club.

4) Los Angeles Kings: I could only think of one deal that makes sense here. Turns out few fellows openly like it. (see what I did there?)

Now of course this only makes sense because you're exchanging a player with term for a player with no term and likely a big pay increase due.

Other possibilities include Anaheim, St Louis, Nashville, and heck, even Vegas.

But I think there are definitely reasonable situations where Pacioretty is moved.

 

[rhinoshawarma]

Didn't Bergevin just recently say that you make trades when you're winning not when you're losing.

If the Habs are winning right now then it makes more sense per their GM to make a move now rather than later.

Although I would agree, any trade likely needs to bring in a replacement piece. Could see them moving him to a Western Conference team that makes sense on both ends.

Habs really only seem to need more scoring at this point, though I am certainly not well informed on their needs, but that's seemed to be the problem for ages now.

Pacioretty is valuable to a "contend now" team that is at the cap ceiling.

So immediately we can look at who fits that bill in the West:
1) Calgary Flames: They think they're in WIN NOW mode so this could happen. Burk... I mean Treliving seems to like Americans so there's sufficient reason to believe they'd test the waters here, and giving up a younger scoring talent a more proven, still young (but older) one is a reasonable move.

Likely offers: Gaudreau/Monahan/Bennett

Although Tkachuk might make more sense I think he's the Burk... I mean Treliving archetype so that's highly unlikely.

2) San Jose Sharks: Definitely in WIN NOW mode, and Pacioretty is an upgrade over some of their wingers. Question here is what they send to Montreal that makes sense for the Habs. Couture+? (the + largely there to offset the cap disparity)... Not sure what else makes sense for the Habs. The added cap flexibility will make sense for the Sharks especially with the Burns signing.

3) Chicago Blackhawks: Already there's a connection here to Bergevin and it's no secret that the Hawks are always looking for cap savvy ways to gain a competitive edge. DeBrincat probably involves himself here, but not sure what else, and specifically what roster piece (and cap) heads back to Montreal. Could see Anisimov or Kruger being the pieces moving back but it's hard to sell the Hawks on either given their value to the club.

4) Los Angeles Kings: I could only think of one deal that makes sense here. Turns out few fellows openly like it. (see what I did there?)

Now of course this only makes sense because you're exchanging a player with term for a player with no term and likely a big pay increase due.

Other possibilities include Anaheim, St Louis, Nashville, and heck, even Vegas.

But I think there are definitely reasonable situations where Pacioretty is moved.

1. Calgary will not trade those assets for an older pacioretty
2.The + would be on pacioretty probably, doubt sharks would even entertain the thought of couture leaving
3. They don't have what it takes/won't part with pieces that are needed. Anisimov won't go anywhere and Kruger is not enough even with +'s
4.Kings hang up

 

[HoweHullOrr]

While i agree that Bjugstad has untapped potential, he is 3.5 years younger then pacioretty. HE isnt 10 years younger. Pacioretty at 23 scored 33 goals and 65 pts. followed by 39 pts in 44 games durin the lockout season then 39 goals the following year. hes been a 60pt player since he was 23 and 75% of the time his center was David Desharnais.

HE is constantly the highest scoring player on one of the lowest scoring teams and in the 60s

the reason for trading someone like that is to improve your team in another position you lack depth or talent at.

Basically Bjugstad + Matheson for pacioretty is not far off in value. adding Beaulieu warrants the first coming back to make up the difference. Change it to a 2nd..

either way. I still worry about trades liek this because patches is a pure goal scorer and youre betting alot on Bjugstad and his potential. MAtheson is a MTL kid and getting him too only adds value.

DD is a cap dump and all and youd expect FLA want compensation but the sweetheart deal that patches is on for 3 years is incredible.

I'm not trying to denigrate the accomplishments of Pacioretty in any way. He has had a good & productive career.

I just wonder if that's a good move for Florida.

They haven't played well this year, but determining what their problems really are is important. They were a team on the rise with their success last year. They've been dealing with a lot of injuries this year: Bjugstad, Jokinen and Huberdeau. Jagr isn't as productive this year. And, Ekblad hasn't played to his potential or to the level he has before.

Many of these things could be temporary and/or fixable. Trading their top young prospects and talent may not be the cure or necessary.

 

[Kraken Jokes]

Besides Patches, Montreal very weak at LW. Montreal would be very stupid to trade from this position. Pacioretty has always been a streaky player, I don't think he's playing that badly. Let's give it somebody time. At $4.5M he's definitely not hurting us.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

The Rangers need to improve their defense more than anything but damn... If a player like Pacioretty is available you have to at least listen to what the asking price is (knowing it will be very steep).

From any team in the conference I assume it'd be much bigger than it would be if we could ship him out West.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

From any team in the conference I assume it'd be much bigger than it would be if we could ship him out West.

We've been burned a few times in the recent past, to have learned to stay away from inter-conference trades.

 

[Habsfan2731]

I wouldn't think about moving him yet.

Put him with Galchenyuk-Radulov & let them thrive or shop for a playmaking centre to set up Pacioretty. Preferably with size.

I will be furious if Michel Therrien outlasts another star in Montreal. A few players have looked disinterested in playing for the coaching staff since the collapse. Pacioretty & Plekanec namely.

Bergevin honestly seems more prepared to trade the entire roster than let go of the coach & bring in a breath of fresh air.

Maybe all they need is a breath of fresh air to get going. Cough cough Gerard Gallant or who you have, Kirk Muller.

 

[10coach*]

So let me get this straight, he "desperately" needs to get out of montreal because he doesn't thrive under the pressure lol. was he thriving when he scored the 5th most goals in the league over the last 5 years? what a joke!! , are his half a dozen endorsement deals that have him all over tv and the radio a sign hes not thriving maybe? lol Then he proceeds to describe why hes one of the most valuable assets in the league because of his talents and contract and is therefore pretty much untradeable, because there are very few ways you could get back his value per dollar. it would have to be proven elite scorers with elite 2-way games on elc's or rfa bridges. How many of those are out there? I mean its not like trading him for kane would help, you'd get 5 more goals and 15-20 more points but youd pay 2.5x more. like another radulov or lucic etc more.

So why is he always in these trade talks? why montreal fans want to ditch him?

1. many habs fans, especially the teens and early 20's (who seem to be way over represented on this board), loved pk way too much and blame max for his being traded. Thats the number one reason.
how do they justify it?

2. for the past several seasons max was pretty much our only, and certainly our best scoring threat. thus he was used in an exploitation type role where he was the go to guy on the first line that you put in on all our best opportunities to score. this was necessary because we didnt have any other players capable of playing that role.

Now however we have galchenyuk and radulov in that role and they are excelling. this allows us to put max with plek on the hard assignments against other teams top lines and top pairings. Why? because he has very strong 2 way play and hustles his ass off every shift, he plays responsibly instead of cherry picking for the stretch pass like his role was in years past. so young fans that don't get the game that well, and only care about points and rushing break ins, think hes dogging it but hes not.

there are a few reasons why the habs are at the top of the league and yes good goal-tending is a big part, yest galch\rad dynamism is a big part. but patch/pleky shutting down top lines and the leadership those two bring is just as much a reason.

so here we see hes playing a much different role and everyone is crying because his point totals are taking a HUGE hit right? but wait since 2010-11 hes been .8 ppg, and this season hes a terrible... .65 ppg over 23 games. so 1 3 point game and hes back on pace lol. Don't you see!!!! hes playing better than ever!! and still producing at pretty much the same pace with very different usage!!! wheather hes the one putting it in the net or not, we are scoring when hes on the ice, hes +7 playing a defensive role ffs!!!

Patches is THE most criminally underrated player in the league, starting with our own fans. There is NO WAY IN HELL he is traded. we wouldn't trade him for ovechkin, we wouldn't trade him for kane, we wouldn't trade him for stamkos.

Dear fellow habs fans, please get over pk. please stop hating on max pac, hes as important to this team as pricer. goal totals for individual players are not what makes the team win or lose. i know we all want to see that 40 goals beside one of our players again, but the team doesn't give a **** about that. everyone of them from the healthy scratches to the top of management want a cup and only a cup. thats why max signed for 4.5, think he couldn't have got more? that is why pk got moved, because he insisted on double and put himself ahead of the team.

and all you other teams fans who see hab fans hating on and wanting to dump max? wake up and smell the coffee, all the proposals you said you wouldn't do your gms would do in a millisecond. because max pac at 4.5mil with 2.75 years left is one of THE TOP 5 ASSETS IN THE LEAGUE!!

rant over, feel free to resume hating and picking apart the one line of my rant you find a way to exploit.

edit: ok many lines lol

Wouldn't trade him for Kane, Stanmer or Ovechkin? Hahaahahaha

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Pacioretty
Desharnais
2nd 2017



Vincent Trocheck
Michael Matheson

We'd be looking for size at center. Not taking anything away from Trocheck's talent.

As a Panther fan, Trocheck's probably the last forward I'd trade. He's not had much luck this year but he's probably the only forward on the team who consistently creates his own chances.

In a deal for Patches, I'd throw in Bjugstad and Matheson or McCann (not sure about how much the Habs need young forwards or d-men). No need for a pick and Montreal can throw in whatever they need to for cap relief but the contracts are already pretty close. Still not sure why the Habs would trade him with the year they've had so far.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

As a Panther fan, Trocheck's probably the last forward I'd trade. He's not had much luck this year but he's probably the only forward on the team who consistently creates his own chances.

In a deal for Patches, I'd throw in Bjugstad and Matheson or McCann (not sure about how much the Habs need young forwards or d-men). No need for a pick and Montreal can throw in whatever they need to for cap relief but the contracts are already pretty close. Still not sure why the Habs would trade him with the year they've had so far.

Some fans are like that. Bergevin would trade him only if he was sure the player(s) coming back outweighed the loss. Not much chance of that happening.

 

[HuGo Sham]

these offers: LOL
take off all of your homer glasses. Friedman is speculating and he also admits, it would have to be a huge offer to pry a 30 goal scorer in his prime on great contract from habs. it's not going to be for most of what is offered in here

 

[FrolikFan67]

ill definitely do bjugstad + matheson, ill add to it if needed.

 

[glenbuis]

Some fans are like that. Bergevin would trade him only if he was sure the player(s) coming back outweighed the loss. Not much chance of that happening.

That's why we pay Bergevin the big bucks

 

[bbob]

Ppl saying trading patches would leave LW problems so no trade is just dumb!!!

C & LD are the biggest problems and C are harder to come by then LW!!C depth helps win cup not LW know your hockey!!

Byron is lighting it up right now as a LW so that just proves to you that you can fill the hole with a prospect or a lesser player the patches. Which Byron is scoring more then him & patches gets special treatment & more ice time.

So Ppl want to keep patches around cause of contract, well what happens if he doesn't sign on again?? Or what if he is getting 7-8 mill yr & playing the way he is now, would yous till love him?? You do not want to let a huge value like patches & contract slip away or sign a bad contract, when you can get a huge return to help your team out in better ways.
Looking in the past won't help patches play better, yes he us a great scorer for 4.5 but on his next contract he is not the player you want to pay 7-8 mill for his laziness & scared of contact or doing the dirty work.

Again learn hockey!!! LW/RW is ALOT easier to find then C & Habs need C/LD more then anything else!! Anyone saying they wouldn't solve the C position cause LW is weak don't know what they are talking about!!

 

[smirob]

I would trade him from a Habs POV - for a package including a top 4 LHD and top 6 centre (or potential top 6 centre)

 

[tony d]

Patches for Couture straight up?

 

[DaNaultinus]

I would trade him from a Habs POV - for a package including a top 4 LHD and top 6 centre (or potential top 6 centre)

A ducks fan thinks Rakell & Fowler for Pacioretty and Beaulieu is fair. I think that would really solidify our team

 

[M.C.G. 31]

A ducks fan thinks Rakell & Fowler for Pacioretty and Beaulieu is fair. I think that would really solidify our team

I can get behind that deal. Not too sure Anaheim wants another defenseman, though.

 

[Magic Stick]

Pacioretty for Panarin straight up.

 

[Price4Prez]

I would think long and hard about a Rackell+Fowler for Patches+Beaulieu deal, as a habs fan. The upgrade on D is nice, and we would have a solid 1st pairing with Weber/Fowler, but my concern is at wing. Does Rackell play only RW? If so, that would leave our left wing absolutely abysmal. And if he can play LW, how does he measure up vs Patches?

We definitely lose on the cap side of things, especially if Fowler wants a huge raise in a year.

Although Rackell is slightly younger, and plays a style that might compliment our second line better.

Good proposal from my perspective.

 

[Price4Prez]

Pacioretty for Panarin straight up.

Don`t know if Chicago would go for that. It`s not a bad thought. I would love seeing Panarin on the Habs 2nd line, but we would absolutely have to go find a LW to play with him and Gallagher. Don`t think he would put up the same kind of pts with Carr,Lehkonen,Terry on his wing.

 

[DaNaultinus]

I would think long and hard about a Rackell+Fowler for Patches+Beaulieu deal, as a habs fan. The upgrade on D is nice, and we would have a solid 1st pairing with Weber/Fowler, but my concern is at wing. Does Rackell play only RW? If so, that would leave our left wing absolutely abysmal. And if he can play LW, how does he measure up vs Patches?

We definitely lose on the cap side of things, especially if Fowler wants a huge raise in a year.

Although Rackell is slightly younger, and plays a style that might compliment our second line better.

Good proposal from my perspective.

Rakell can play LW & C. He doesnt have as great a shot as Pacioretty does but he plays a more hard to the net game. He's only 23 and signed on a hell of a deal at ~3.85 until 2021-22. Starting to have a breakout year as well and is almost a PPG. Fowler will command a bigger raise but thats after the 2017-2018 season. We'll have Price, Chucky, Radulov signed for deals and thats when Plekanec comes off his deal. I'm sure capwise we could make it work.