Confirmed with Link: Pär Lindholm for Nic Petan
- Thread starter mondo3
- Start date
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Yup. Lot of revisioning going on here.
The people that put Petan in the top six when making silly lines were usually people like me, who did it *because* Petan was not one of the 6 best players... in trying to spread out the Jets talent and make 3 scoring lines that would work.
I had no problem with Petan on the fourth line, just not with Thorburn/Hendricks, because Petan didn't gel well with those players and the end result was worse than the sum of its parts.
- Jun 10, 2014
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This needs to die, "which is what his advocates on here suggest he needs". It is repeated time and again by his detractors. He is obviously not suited to a checking role. He needed linemates with more skill than Thorburn had. He never needed to be in the top 6. Give him the linemates that Lemieux had this year. I think he would have done well with Perreault and Appleton/Roslovic.
There are all kinds of things you can say about Petan, good and bad. You can say he failed to take advantage of whatever opportunity he had. But the idea that it was top 6 or nothing is BS. The idea that his supporters insisted that was what he needed is BS.
Please stop.
Didn't sound like Babcock was happy with his fourth line last night, expect Petan to be in the PB again next game.
Seems to me there is some conflict between the coach and GM here. Sounds like the GM wants a different lineup configuration then the coach. Petan was the strongest if the three last night.
That's what I've read, the third line last night was a Dubas creation and Babcock didnt like what he saw.
This is just vintage Babs though.
He's the type of coach who will sit better players because he's in love with a terrible player's work ethic. Look at Connor Brown, for example. There is no way he should be playing over Petan or Gauthier, but because Babcock likes that he works hard, he gets in the lineup every game.
I think it's fairly unprofessional for Babs to pretty much take a direct shot at his boss in the press conference.
Board Bard
Dane-O-Mite
- Jun 7, 2014
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He was afraid Maurice and his ilk would think he's dressing sissies over grit so he had to get the word out.
ERYX
'Pegger in Exile
Petan played 13 games this season with the exact line mates Lemieux had this season.
Line combos he played with in 2018/19 season:
Copp-Petan-Roslovic
Perrault-Petan-Roslovic
Copp-Lemieux-Petan
Lemieux-Petan-Roslovic
Appleton-Lemieux-Petan
Were the combos according to Nic Petan - Frozen Tools, at least. His performance was basically the same with those guys as with Thorburn. Last season he didn't play with Thorburn either, but with Dano, Armia, Copp, Hendricks, Lowry, Matthias. So last season he played with pretty much the whole bottom 6, top 6 is the only place he didn't play, hence the "he needed to be top 6" comment which I believe is legit in this context.
Same with this year, really. He just wouldn't fit with TLC, so where else is he supposed to play other than with Perrault, Roslovic, Appleton, Lemieux? Sounds like "top 6 or nothing" to me.
- Jun 10, 2014
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So ... it is his critics who keep saying 'top 6 or nothing', not his supporters. Don't kill off the statement then. Just attribute it to the right place.
ERYX
'Pegger in Exile
No you've misread what I wrote. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
Petan's supporters say that it's Maurice's fault he didn't stick because Maurice put him with plugs. I demonstrated that Petan has played over the last two seasons with he whole bottom six. Therefore, the supporters' argument that he didn't get to play with the right people must mean he needs to play top six to "have a fair chance".
His critics simply say he's not as good as his supporters think he is and that blaming the coach is just an excuse/scapegoat to avoid putting the responsibility where it lies: with the player.
- Jun 10, 2014
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And you misread what I wrote. I'm not arguing for or against Petan. I'm arguing against the statement that Petan's supporters insist he needs to play in the top 6.
Whether or not Petan belongs in the Jets lineup is ancient history and has been argued to death, dug up from its grave and argued to death again, and again. I don't care to argue anymore about how good he is or is not, or whether he was given a fair chance to make it by the Jets. But I don't believe it is generally his supporters position that he needs to play in the top 6. That is a statement that his detractors keep making, not his supporters.
Samcanadian
Registered User
- Dec 13, 2011
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I'm not sure what the end game is here...you want to defend Petan's supporters by saying that they never thought he should get a shot with better players than the ones he proved he couldn't produce with?
- Jun 10, 2014
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No. It is that generally they don't insist that he must play top 6 - or nothing. He is a playmaker. He needs to play with players who can finish to be effective. That doesn't mean that he can only play with the best. It means that he can't play with the worst.
He isn't good in a checking role with players who are good for nothing but a checking role. It isn't complicated.
Samcanadian
Registered User
- Dec 13, 2011
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By your standards, nobody @ERYX mentioned is good enough to play on a line with Petan, because they can't finish at a high enough rate to get the most out of his ability? I mean, he got the same results playing with them as he did in a checking line role with Hendricks and Thorburn...
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I'm not interested in debating how good Petan is or is not. Or what it would take to get the best out of him. Had 5.5 years of that. I contradicted a post that, IMO, incorrectly attributed a position to a group of people.
Samcanadian
Registered User
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Gabe Kupari
Registered User
Tom ServoMST3K
In search of a Steinbach Hero
Every coach in the league is like that.
"This is just vintage Babs though.
He's the type of coach who will sit better players because he's in love with a terrible player's work ethic. Look at Connor Brown, for example. There is no way he should be playing over Petan or Gauthier, but because Babcock likes that he works hard, he gets in the lineup every game."
This is a much easier problem to remedy than most. If coaches like players that work hard, than work harder. It's an easier fix than say not having the natural hand-eye-coordination or speed to play in the NHL.
He's the type of coach who will sit better players because he's in love with a terrible player's work ethic. Look at Connor Brown, for example. There is no way he should be playing over Petan or Gauthier, but because Babcock likes that he works hard, he gets in the lineup every game."
This is a much easier problem to remedy than most. If coaches like players that work hard, than work harder. It's an easier fix than say not having the natural hand-eye-coordination or speed to play in the NHL.
Jets4Life
Registered User
That must explain why the Leafs are having their best season in over 15 years. It's because Babcock is a horrible coach! It all makes sense now...
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