Ovechkin vs Laine comparison.

[grieves]

Not really.

Ovechkin was on a garbage team playing the toughest match-ups.

Laine was on an excellent team playing lesser match-ups.

And TOI doesn't extrapolate that way. You don't just increase minutes and productivity increases commensurately.

Ok let's be reasonable and forfeit 10 goals from Laine (even though that is probably major overkill). He would still sit at 59 goals with Ovis TOI and PP opportunities.

And jepjepjoo is comparing 19yo Laine to 20yo Ovechkin in his post so we should be on the safe side with the comparison.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Agree with this. What Laine does best he does better than OV ever did,

Shouldn't Laine have to get within 20 goals of Ovechkin's best goal scoring season before we starting saying stuff like this?

Or are imaginations sufficient?

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ok let's be reasonable and forfeit 10 goals from Laine (even though that is probably major overkill). He would still sit at 59 goals with Ovis TOI and PP opportunities.

And jepjepjoo is comparing 19yo Laine to 20yo Ovechkin in his post so we should be on the safe side with the comparison.

There is no need to speculate or pretend.

We can simply wait and see what Laine does this season.

 

[Carlzner]

Literally just watch one single YouTube video

 

[RageQuit77]

@oXo Cube

I project Laine will break 500 regular season goals milestone during his 13th season (including "casual injuries", barring career ending/changing injuries and lock-outs, major NHL concept/schedule changes, and global thermonuclear war/asteroid XBG-54401-1 from hyberbolic orbit).

Career goal scoring wise Laine will be 15-20% behind Ovi after season #13, about 100G+. That's not "Order of Magnitude" difference in production.

 

[grieves]

There is no need to speculate or pretend.

We can simply wait and see what Laine does this season.

I'm not sure anyone is pretending. Speculating however can be quite fun.

We will surely see what happens, there you are right.

 

[grieves]

Literally just watch one single YouTube video

What would be the point of this? Laine has not even played his comparable season. Unless you mean Youtube videos about the Russian league?

 

[Carlzner]

What would be the point of this? Laine has not even played his comparable season. Unless you mean Youtube videos about the Russian league?

Watch it and tell me you think it’s possible for Laine to improve that much in one offseason

 

[grieves]

Watch it and tell me you think it’s possible for Laine to improve that much in one offseason

Laine is a completely different kind of player so he doesn't need the same tools as Ovi.

Improve that much? He just finished a record-breaking 44 goals in less ice time than ANY PLAYER SINCE TOI HAS BEEN TRACKED. Laine just needs more ice-time, getting better he will for sure as most forwards improve drastically until they are 23-24yo.

 

[Carlzner]

Laine is a completely different kind of player so he doesn't need the same tools as Ovi.

Improve that much? He just finished a record-breaking 44 goals in less ice time than ANY PLAYER SINCE TOI HAS BEEN TRACKED. Laine just needs more ice-time, getting better he will for sure as most forwards improve drastically until they are 23-24yo.

That’s nice. He’s still nowhere close to the talent that Ovechkin was coming into the league.

 

[Carlzner]

Laine is a completely different kind of player so he doesn't need the same tools as Ovi.

Improve that much? He just finished a record-breaking 44 goals in less ice time than ANY PLAYER SINCE TOI HAS BEEN TRACKED. Laine just needs more ice-time, getting better he will for sure as most forwards improve drastically until they are 23-24yo.

That’s nice. He’s still nowhere close to the talent that Ovechkin was coming into the league.

 

[grieves]

That’s nice. He’s still nowhere close to the talent that Ovechkin was coming into the league.

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't share it and I think my position can be backed up with more than empty words.

 

[RageQuit77]

My biggest concern with Laine relates to spare time distribution of playing Fortnite and making normal 100-200+ shots per evening to keep his main arsenal ready, honed, accurate, and potent.

After that else came from a perimeter naturally with decent TOI (PP and EV) and average IQ of line mates (whatever they may be).

Goalies have limited chances to stop the tide as long as he himself make sure he keeps the tide flowing.

After 3 to 5 years NHL is saturated by players who use Lainesque shot-arsenal as a default. After one generation, nobody even recall who was the guy. It's all about norm then.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

I don't even think Laine will be the best forward for the Jets next season. Rookie Ovechkin is a superstar.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Improve that much? He just finished a record-breaking 44 goals in less ice time than ANY PLAYER SINCE TOI HAS BEEN TRACKED.

What does this mean?

Certainly you are not suggesting Laine's goals per 60 are higher than Stamkos's or Ovechkin's from their best seasons, right? I mean, that is demonstrably false so you must be saying something else.

Are you saying that out of all players who scored 44 goals in the past 20 years (since ATOI has been tracked) Laine did it in the fewest minutes?

Is scoring 44 goals at a lower G/60 somehow more impressive than scoring 65 goals at a higher G/60 rate?

What am I missing?

 

[oXo Cube]

Laine is a completely different kind of player so he doesn't need the same tools as Ovi.

Improve that much? He just finished a record-breaking 44 goals in less ice time than ANY PLAYER SINCE TOI HAS BEEN TRACKED. Laine just needs more ice-time, getting better he will for sure as most forwards improve drastically until they are 23-24yo.

This is a really nice spin on "Laine is worse than Ovechkin at everything."

Show your work. Laine needs to do a hell of a lot more than score some goals on the power play to enter Ovechkin territory.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

No he had like double or more PP time and over 20 minutes of usage in his rookie year.

Laine is way more efficient with his time and shots.

Ovechkin created offense at a much higher clip. He carried the puck almost like McDavid does now in his early 20's. He simply created offense and volume chances like Laine hasn't shown. He was a physical precense who forechecked like a madman. His advanced stats were and are much better.

Ice time is irrelevant, Ovechkin got more ice time in large part because he's better.

 

[grieves]

What does this mean?

Certainly you are not suggesting Laine's goals per 60 are higher than Stamkos's or Ovechkin's from their best seasons, right? I mean, that is demonstrably false so you must be saying something else.

Are you saying that out of all players who scored 44 goals in the past 20 years (since ATOI has been tracked) Laine did it in the fewest minutes?

Is scoring 44 goals at a lower G/60 somehow more impressive than scoring 65 goals at a higher G/60 rate?

What am I missing?

Not a single player has hit 40 goals with the ice-time Laine received, let alone 44. Perhaps I misspoke earlier.

 

[grieves]

This is a really nice spin on "Laine is worse than Ovechkin at everything."

Show your work. Laine needs to do a hell of a lot more than score some goals on the power play to enter Ovechkin territory.

"Show your work" .

Do you disagree that they are different kind of players? For one, Laine is far more deadly with his shot. This is demonstrated by his ridiculous xGoals numbers. No need to blast through defenders if you can snipe it from afar.

Just watch them both and you will see "my work".

 

[RageQuit77]

This is a really nice spin on "Laine is worse than Ovechkin at everything."

Show your work. Laine needs to do a hell of a lot more than score some goals on the power play to enter Ovechkin territory.

While there is half truth in that sentence, I want point out that this far in his career (regular seasons), Laine has 29 PPG out of total 80 G. That's 36.25%. For "Pure goal scorer/sniper" it is not that high PPG percentage that it would justify false narrative about "Laine can only score PP goals" or similar blah blah blah.

At least it cannot be used as an argument against Laine in this particular thread as Ovi's career regular season PPG percentage is 37.73%.

 

[grieves]

Poster EhlersChin wanted Laine's achievements in another thread and I disappointed him so maybe this will make him happy:

2015-16 Liiga Rookie of the Year.
2015-16 Liiga Rookie Goals Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Rookie Points Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Playoff MVP and Champion.
2015-16 Liiga Playoff Goals Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Record Setter for Most Playoff Goals By a Rookie.
2016 World Junior All Star Team.
2016 World Junior Gold Medal.
2016 World Junior Goals Leader.
2015 U-18 All Star Team.
2015 U-18 Silver Medal.
2015 U-18 Goals Leader.
2016 World Championship MVP.
2016 World Championship Silver Medal.
2016 World Championship All-Star Team.
2016 World Championship, IIHF Directorate Award for Best Forward.
2016 World Championship, Award for Top 3 Player on Team.
2016 World Championship Goals Leader.
2016 World Championship Record Setter for Most Goals by a Player in First Year of NHL Draft Eligibility.
2016 World Championship Record Setter for Most Points by a Player in First Year of NHL Draft Eligibility.
Highest Point Total by a U-18 Player at a World Championship Tournament (Previous record doubled).
Youngest player ever to score three hat tricks in the NHL
Fastest 18 Year-old to achieve 30 goals in the NHL (era-adjusted)
Led the league in PP goals as a U20 player (only player to reach 20 PP goals in 17-18 season)
3rd European teenager ever to reach 100 career points in the NHL
Longest point streak by a teenager in NHL history at 14 games
Scored 40 goals in less ice-time than anyone in the NHL since ice-time has been recorded (44 Goals averaging 16:29 TOI)


Let's act all surprised if Laine gets to Ovi territory! I'ma be supa suprised!

 

[oXo Cube]

"Show your work" .

Do you disagree that they are different kind of players? For one, Laine is far more deadly with his shot. This is demonstrated by his ridiculous xGoals numbers. No need to blast through defenders if you can snipe it from afar.

Just watch them both and you will see "my work".

You... you want me to watch them both and you expect me to come out of that favoring Laine? I don't think you know that much about the player Ovechkin once was. Actually I'm not sure you know anything at all about him.

While there is half truth in that sentence, I want point out that this far in his career (regular seasons), Laine has 29 PPG out of total 80 G. That's 36.25%. For "Pure goal scorer/sniper" it is not that high PPG percentage that it would justify false narrative about "Laine can only score PP goals" or similar blah blah blah.

At least it cannot be used as an argument against Laine in this particular thread as Ovi's career regular season PPG percentage is 37.73%.

I know that you personally understand this, but I'll point it out again just for anyone else following this conversation. The problem here is that this is the only skill (shot accuracy) that Laine has comparable to Ovechkin.

Regardless, the point I was trying to make could probably have been phrased better.

 

[RageQuit77]

As tangentially relevant to this thread, shall be posted here too.

Stuff by Se829ne:

I like make graphs (manually using MS-Paint).

 

[grieves]

You... you want me to watch them both and you expect me to come out of that favoring Laine? I don't think you know that much about the player Ovechkin once was. Actually I'm not sure you know anything at all about him.

No, that is not what I said. I asked if you can recognize that they are stylistically different kinds of players.

 

[oXo Cube]

No, that is not what I said. I asked if you can recognize that they are stylistically different kinds of players.

They're stylistically different in the sense that Ovechkin was the complete package and Laine is a one dimensional target shooter, yes.

If you want me to get onto your side you're going to have to start listing things Laine has over Ovechkin that isn't splitting hairs over his marginally better shooting accuracy.