Ovechkin top 10 player of all time?

[T REX]

What a phenomenal player.

Top 5?

Hell no.

Ten?

Possibly. The argument is there. Too much recency(why is this thing saying this word is misspelled) BIAS.

 

[Zuluss]

it will lead to PPG and we all know how great that makes Ovi look in comparison to Crosby.

You made a statement that in PO Crosby had less "poor individual performances". The facts do not bear that out. The facts show that Crosby is easier to shut down - and he was shut down more frequently and by more teams than OV.
Now you want to switch to career ppg again? Just like I said, there is nothing in Crosby's favor except for ppg and team awards.

Really you know the answer is injuries and even with those injuries Crosby has more top 3 Hart- Art ross seasons than Ovi.

Who cares about excuses. Crosby accomplished less as an individual player. He is one Hart short and one Lindsay nomination short compared to Ovechkin. And it is not like he is a Bure with only 5-6 healthy seasons. He had enough healthy seasons to get that extra Hart. He just was not good enough.

Crosby does have two more Hart nominations than OV, but that's because Hart voters routinely snub players on non-playoff teams (most recent examples are McDavid in 2017/18 and Kane in 2018/19). In 2005/06, OV was nominated for Lindsay, but not Hart - voters decided to punish him for being on a bottom dweller team. In 2018/19, voters similarly snubbed Kane (and players did nominate him for Lindsay), so Crosby got a Hart nomination he did not quite deserve. In 2015/16, Holtby and OV split Hart votes, so Crosby got Hart nomination instead of Holtby - but players nominated Holtby for Lindsay.

As for top3 Art Ross finishes, who cares about those other than Crosby fans. According to Hart voters, some of those "top3 seasons" by Crosby were worse than Ovechkin's under ppg seasons. And in several cases Crosby's leads over #5 were paper-thin, only 3 points, or even 1 point. So what is the big accomplishment in getting those 3 extra points?

I do judge Lafleur on what he did outside of his peak and I think Dionne is the better player historically by a bit.

I do not think you will find many people who agree. Peak matters a lot - it showcases ability and talent, it gives the team that extra chance to succeed which can be the difference between Cup and no Cup.

Well Crosby has 10 healthy seasons and Ovi has 5 times been top 5 in Hart voting so maybe you have a different meaning of meaningfull here.

For example, in 2018/19 60ish voters had OV on the ballot. I think it is meaningful, even if OV finished 7th. 20 voters who did the same in 2017/18 is also meaningful following.

Using a reputation Hart vote to try to argue impact per game and PPG is just really silly.

I mean its pretty obvious that Kopitar was more valuable to his team and a better player than Ovechkin that year yet he only gets 53 Harts points to Oviès 213...come on now.

Hart vote is the only way to take into account things like two-way play. Judging from how voting goes, two-way play is not as important as you think, and goals are more important. You are just trying to discredit the results because you do not like them, but really, why would you want your best offensive player to sacrifice offense for defense? It is good if the said player is not a defensive liability or can chip in defensively without giving up offense, but other than that, you can always roll out the third line if you need to shut someone down. Shut down players are rather cheap.
So yes, it is quite possible that in 2015/16 OV was more valuable to the team than Kopitar. The defensive edge Kopitar has was not enough to compensate for the fact that OV had twice as many goals.

 

[Zuluss]

Since 2010, Ovechkin's top-10 point finishes are 3, 4, 7, 8.

Since 2010, Ovechkin's top10 finishes in Hart voting are 1, 2, 6, 7, 9.
That's a bit of a difference. Looks as if Hart voters know something.

 

[oilexport]

I dont think he is top 5. Ovi took a lot of heat for a few playoff performances didn't he ? Those other top guys lifted there teams to another planet.

He still may become the leading scorer, so for sure, top 10.

 

[YippieKaey]

I think top ten for sure just based on goals per game and Rockets won. One can also add the physical dimension.

And yes, his game is not "complete" anymore and probably never was. But if Hfboards was around in Gretzkys time people (edgelords and Flames fans?) would complain he was soft and bad defensively so just look at pure accomplishments and the case is very clear to me.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'd put him around 20th.

 

[daver]

Goals are worth more than assists. They are harder to come by and leading nine times is an absolutely insane number. OV and Crosby are both fantastic and I'm not going to listen to anyone who says it's not close between them. Personally I'd take Ovechkin but if somebody argued for Crosby that's fine as well. Not close? Can't make a case? Forget that.

Number five is a crazy spot to compete for any player. Richard, Harvey, Hull, Beliveau, Hasek, Roy... you can make cases for all of them. But you can make a case for Ovechkin there as well.

Points are worth more than goals.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ovechkin is easily top 10, and probably has the best case for #5 as of right now. He's just accomplished way too much to say otherwise.

 

[tenken00]

What a phenomenal player.

Top 5?

Hell no.

Ten?

Possibly. The argument is there. Too much recency(why is this thing saying this word is misspelled) BIAS.

I'm not sure where or how he will be viewed in say.. 20 years into the future.

But it feels like Ovechkin's stature will only grow as time moves on as people look back and see just how unique he truly is. There is no one else like him in history.

 

[filinski77]

All time rankings:

#1 in rockets (2 more than #2)
T-#4 most Harts
T-#3 most Lindsays/Pearson’s

#1 in times leading in PP goals
T-#2 in times leading in ES goals
T-#1 in times leading in goals/gp
T-#8 in time leading in points/gp

Most likely finishes #2 in goals (with potential for #1 all time)
Pretty good shot at top 10 in points

For how good his all time goals/points rankings could end up, this is despite playing in a much lower scoring era. Plus his individual hardware is easily top 3/4 all time. As far as the point crowd goes, literally only 7 players have finished first in points/gp more than Ovi has all time lol.

That is a top-10 resume all time without a doubt.

 

[T REX]

All time rankings:

#1 in rockets (2 more than #2)
T-#4 most Harts
T-#3 most Lindsays/Pearson’s

#1 in times leading in PP goals
T-#2 in times leading in ES goals
T-#1 in times leading in goals/gp
T-#8 in time leading in points/gp

Most likely finishes #2 in goals (with potential for #1 all time)
Pretty good shot at top 10 in points

For how good his all time goals/points rankings could end up, this is despite playing in a much lower scoring era. Plus his individual hardware is easily top 3/4 all time. As far as the point crowd goes, literally only 7 players have finished first in points/gp more than Ovi has all time lol.

That is a top-10 resume all time without a doubt.

Naw...there's doubt.

 

[RorschachWJK]

All time rankings:

#1 in rockets (2 more than #2)
T-#4 most Harts
T-#3 most Lindsays/Pearson’s

#1 in times leading in PP goals
T-#2 in times leading in ES goals
T-#1 in times leading in goals/gp
T-#8 in time leading in points/gp

Most likely finishes #2 in goals (with potential for #1 all time)
Pretty good shot at top 10 in points

For how good his all time goals/points rankings could end up, this is despite playing in a much lower scoring era. Plus his individual hardware is easily top 3/4 all time. As far as the point crowd goes, literally only 7 players have finished first in points/gp more than Ovi has all time lol.

That is a top-10 resume all time without a doubt.

Agreed. He is already top-10.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Points are worth more than goals.

If points are close and one guy has a big edge in goals, he's got a big edge in how they should be compared.

 

[Fantomas]

Points are worth more than goals.

 

[tenken00]

Did he really just quote himself and agree to what he said?

 

[Iapyi]

I think top ten for sure just based on goals per game and Rockets won. One can also add the physical dimension.

And yes, his game is not "complete" anymore and probably never was. But if Hfboards was around in Gretzkys time people (edgelords and Flames fans?) would complain he was soft and bad defensively so just look at pure accomplishments and the case is very clear to me.

I don't think even his biggest fanboys would ever claim he's ever had a complete game style of play. Of course, some of the most overzealous ones pretend he has but that's more for their own sake.

 

[Video Nasty]

I certainly see the case for Ovechkin. I think I can go with top 10 forward all time, but he's outside the top 10 for me if we're including D and G.

I suppose he's top 5 if you started following hockey post lockout and know that you'll be laughed out of the building if you suggest the Big Four isn't firmly ahead no matter how he finishes his career.

 

[DrewGl]

He's very good at hockey. This "argument" is very tired. Best goal scorer of all time. Done.

 

[daver]

If points are close and one guy has a big edge in goals, he's got a big edge in how they should be compared.

Crosby is the superior offensive force. That is inarguble. Goals vs assists is meaningless and Crosby has the higher PPG to begin with. He has a significantly better track record in carrying lower depth teammates so the Pens could load up other lines.

 

[Yackiberg8]

You made a statement that in PO Crosby had less "poor individual performances". The facts do not bear that out. The facts show that Crosby is easier to shut down - and he was shut down more frequently and by more teams than OV.
Now you want to switch to career ppg again? Just like I said, there is nothing in Crosby's favor except for ppg and team awards.

So Crosby is better at offence, better at defence, and a better leader. What's Ovies case given those facts?

 

[wetcoast]

So Crosby is better at offence, better at defence, and a better leader. What's Ovies case given those facts?

The case for Ovi begins and ends with goal scoring.

If people seriously look at the whole picture its clear that Crosby is held in higher esteem and will be judged (and he already is) as the better player.

no shame in that Crosby simply has the best resume post lockout.

 

[Zuluss]

So Crosby is better at offence, better at defence, and a better leader. What's Ovies case given those facts?

What is there to show that Crosby is better at offense? His best season is routinely ranked behind all three best seasons by Ovechkin. He tilts the ice less, and the defensive edge he has is so small that Hart voters always vote Ovechkin well ahead if points are at all close - even if Ovechkin has less points.
"Better leader" is some bull**** not even worth discussing. It is just something people make up to push their narrative.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

The case for Ovi begins and ends with goal scoring.

If people seriously look at the whole picture its clear that Crosby is held in higher esteem and will be judged (and he already is) as the better player.

no shame in that Crosby simply has the best resume post lockout.

I honestly am shocked there is still dispute over this in 2020. Sid and Ovi was fun a decade ago when this was a discussion, now it's sad. I love Ovi but Crosby ended this debate a long long time ago.

 

[Randyne]

Sure, he is already there.
I've made this picture, tell me if someone is missing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Crosby is the superior offensive force. That is inarguble.

I stopped reading there.