Ovechkin top 10 player of all time?
- Thread starter DangleBojangle
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GreatGonzo
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So once again, we are going to ignore that he’s been one of the top goal scorers in the league, and continue focusing on his assists totals and how there aren’t enough of them?
You answered your own question. He has the best shot, is the best goal scorer.....why are you surprised he isn’t setting up people?
You call it “one dimensional” when he’s just doing exactly what he’s supposed to do while being overall the best at it, and it’s obviously been impactful for himself and his team.
Jagr not in the top 10? That's a yikes from me. McDavid over Jagr? Now that's laughable at this point. Heck having players like, again, McDavid, Sakic etc there over Malkin is highly dubious in it's own right.
ziggyjoe212
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Because he used to get 50 assists per year. He used to be a playmaker. He is no longer a play maker, he's "just" a shooter.
I'm saying this not to discredit OV. I'm saying this because the person I replied to claims he is not one-dimensional.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
He’s had 50 assists seasons 4 times in his career, not including his most dominant year. He’s had those years, but hasn’t been consistent. I mean he’s arguably the best shooter in the game, and far from the best playmaker.....why not do what your good at? Especially when it helps your team win more.
I guess I see a certain negativity to being “one dimensional” because it implies he lacks depth and is only good for one single aspect. He isn’t just floating out there waiting to shoot the puck. He can skate, he hits, he has shown the ability to play defense. Maybe these aspects don’t break that stigma attached to Ovi, but that’s the way I see it.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Calling Ovie "one dimensional" is factually and objectively false.
Take it up with the dictionary.
Take it up with the dictionary.
kilowatt
the vibes are not immaculate
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stop that doesn't fit that poster's narrative
he should be in the top 100 all time in assists next season
John Price
Gang Gang
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Khomutov
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Gretzky scored just 23 goals in 80 games at the age of 34. Nobody said, look he is one dimensional, all he is doing is assisting on goals.
Voight
#winning
JasonRoseEh
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- Oct 23, 2018
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Well yes they actually would as that would be an accurate description at that point in his career.
JasonRoseEh
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No one pointed to Gretzky as a one dimensional player at any point in his career, what are you talking about it? It's as ridiculous to say he was a one dimensional player at 34 as Ovechkin is now or ever was.
93gilmour93
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- Feb 27, 2010
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Lemieux
Howe
Gretzky
Orr
Jagr
Messier
Sakic
Crosby
Yzerman
Bourque
I would at least rank these players above Ovechkin in a top 10 not including goalies. Ovechkin is in the top 20
Howe
Gretzky
Orr
Jagr
Messier
Sakic
Crosby
Yzerman
Bourque
I would at least rank these players above Ovechkin in a top 10 not including goalies. Ovechkin is in the top 20
JasonRoseEh
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Yzerman never even won a Hart and made all NHL first team once, I mean c`mon.
Fantomas
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93gilmour93
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Yzerman was a better complete player. Ovechkin is a killer at scoring goals
Fantomas
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Adding to this, what Ovechkin is doing much more rare. Find me in any era elite scorers in their mid-30s and find me elite passers at the same age. Many more of the latter than the former.
There's is no argument for Sakic and Yzerman over Ovie man.
| Ovechkin | Sakic and Yzerman | |
| Harts | 3 | 1 |
| Lindsays | 3 | 2 |
| Art Ross | 1 | 0 |
| Rockets | 8 | 0 |
| Calder | 1 | 0 |
| Smythes | 1 | 2 |
| 1st All star | 8 | 4 |
| 2nd All star | 4 | 0 |
| PPG Leads | 3 | 0 |
| GPG Leads | 8 | 0 |
Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Jagr, Bourque, Hasek, Roy, Lidstrom, Crosby, and Ovechkin are all above the 19's.
How difficult is it for some people to grasp reality here or are you trying to say that 92 goal Gretzky was the exact same player and had the same impact as 24 goal season Gretzky?
Gretzky was indeed a much different player in the 2 different seasons listed above much as Ovechkin this year is a different player than he was in his 3 year peak.
I have zero idea on how that is even debatable.
Video Nasty
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People are so disingenuous when they try to defend against the stance of Ovechkin being fairly one dimensional for the past 9 seasons. Yes, when you hit 700 goals the second quickest ever and you have folks fantasizing about him taking down Gretzky, you’re almost bullet proof...but it doesn’t mean he is anywhere close to the player he was in the first third of his career.
He was an incredible all around force in his first 5 seasons. Those 3 years where he would have swept every single major award if not for missing 6 games to injury and 4 to suspension in 2009-2010 is probably going to be the best 3 year stretch of hockey this century for awhile.
He had 313 assists in his first 6 seasons. He has 257 in his last 9 seasons. 1 assist in his last 20 games, 0 in his last 12?
People saying it doesn’t fit others narrative of him being more one dimensional because he ranks 13th among all active players? Disingenuous again. He put up 55% of his career assists in just his first 6 years alone...when it takes 9 seasons, all consecutive, to get the other 45%, it speaks for itself that for a larger majority of his career that he is pretty one dimensional.
For the entire decade of the 2010s, he ranks 40th in assists. He played the 9th most games. That’s a more sincere take than people just scoffing and saying that because he ranks 13th among active players buoyed by actually being a more complete player in his early stages proves he is overall elite.
Sorry, he’s not even close to being as exciting as he was from 2005-2006 through 2009-2010. And I don’t believe any of his defenders if they say they prefer the version we’ve gotten of him over the last 10 years.
Again, he’s 8th all time on the goal list and counting. It doesn’t mean he is immune to criticism and he needs to pass Gretzky in reality before he is realistically a top 10 player all time. Top 10 all players, doubtful. Top 10 forward, definitely think he already has a strong case.
He was an incredible all around force in his first 5 seasons. Those 3 years where he would have swept every single major award if not for missing 6 games to injury and 4 to suspension in 2009-2010 is probably going to be the best 3 year stretch of hockey this century for awhile.
He had 313 assists in his first 6 seasons. He has 257 in his last 9 seasons. 1 assist in his last 20 games, 0 in his last 12?
People saying it doesn’t fit others narrative of him being more one dimensional because he ranks 13th among all active players? Disingenuous again. He put up 55% of his career assists in just his first 6 years alone...when it takes 9 seasons, all consecutive, to get the other 45%, it speaks for itself that for a larger majority of his career that he is pretty one dimensional.
For the entire decade of the 2010s, he ranks 40th in assists. He played the 9th most games. That’s a more sincere take than people just scoffing and saying that because he ranks 13th among active players buoyed by actually being a more complete player in his early stages proves he is overall elite.
Sorry, he’s not even close to being as exciting as he was from 2005-2006 through 2009-2010. And I don’t believe any of his defenders if they say they prefer the version we’ve gotten of him over the last 10 years.
Again, he’s 8th all time on the goal list and counting. It doesn’t mean he is immune to criticism and he needs to pass Gretzky in reality before he is realistically a top 10 player all time. Top 10 all players, doubtful. Top 10 forward, definitely think he already has a strong case.
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MagicalRazor
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txpd
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Video Nasty
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I like the work you put into compiling this, but overall I just think it’s the wrong way to go about it.
Context is constantly preached on these boards yet people do get very picky about when it matters don’t they?
I never like to punish a player if they haven’t had too much competition, since any player can only do the best they can with the hand dealt to them. So congrats to Ovechkin for playing in an era with weak goal scoring contemporaries and supposedly bigger faster stronger players that I see no real evidence of.
In this case, you’re seriously bringing up how many first and second team selections Ovechkin has made versus Sakic and Yzerman combined? Yeah, Ovechkin was going to beat out a Gretzky or Lemieux at his position if he ever had to contend with either.
Is Luc Robitaille also a higher ranked player than Sakic and Yzerman because he has 5 first team selections and 3 second team selections at LW?
C has obviously always been a much deeper position than LW.
Yzerman lost a close Calder race to Barrasso. He was the top forward. Take a look at the 1988-1989 Calder race. Sakic got beat pretty decisively. It was a deep field. Sakic had a great rookie campaign objectively. I can only guess that he was penalized for the team still being so bad. Leetch was an extremely deserving winner. Then again, I didn’t realize how important Calders were in ranking all time greats.
Imagine a season, regardless of era, where putting up 65 goals 90 assists and 155 points sees you finish a distant third in the Hart race?
In what universe is Ovechkin winning any awards and trophies where for a span of 21 consecutive seasons, the only players who won an Art Ross were Gretzky, Lemieux and Jagr? I’d love to see his very bare trophy case with players like that to contend with.
Hart Winners from 1980 through 2001
Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Hull, Fedorov, Lindros, Hasek, Jagr, Pronger, Sakic. That’s it. All elite. All time players. Not a single weak season in there. Sedin, Perry, Hall have all won during Ovechkin’s time. Hardly the same level of players winning some of these trophies. Benn won an Art Ross for god sakes. Again, what is Ovechkin winning if stacked up against higher caliber players?
Context matters, until it comes to knocking down post lockout hockey people cut their teeth on.
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GreatGonzo
Registered User
I don’t understand the whole “all around” agenda your going with though. It makes little sense. His first 5 seasons, he only has 2 top 10 assists seasons, and they were 10th and 6th. He had more assists for sure, but his highest assist total has been 59 in 2010, where he still finished 6th.
He has never been a “playmaker.” He was never an All Around player. He had more assists mainly due to his play on the PP. his assists totals continued to drop after 2013, but again....it’s the idea that that NEEDS to be criticized. Why? Why does it matter that he doesn’t have more assists? Where is the negative in that?
He’s always been a shooter and a goal scorer, his assists totals and playmaking overall have never made that much noise. This “all around” idea goes along with the criticism he’s been facing, as if he was once this all around elite goal scorer and playmaker, and then suddenly decided to just focus on goal scoring, but his assists totals!
One dimensional still isn’t exactly the most fair critique mainly because one dimensional isn’t anything but a negative term. When saying someone is one dimensional, you are implying that they aren’t valuable really at all....because how many “one dimensional” players actually held value to a team?
