Ovechkin top 10 player of all time?

[SotasicA]

If he breaks Gretzky's record, I'll say he is in.

Otherwise no, he's just not good enough. But an all-time goal scoring leader? That's a significant enough accomplishment that even if he is (or isn't) such a good overall hockey player, it don't matter.

I mean, the point of the game is to put the puck in the net. He's got that pegged.

 

[wetcoast]

By what metric?

Ovechkin has more goals, and a higher PPG with less games. Feds has him beat in assists and that's literally it.


It's really telling to see people consistently crack 8 for being "inconsistent in the playoffs", he's literally one of the most consistent players in NHL history.


I wonder if it helps that Fedorov had like 4 Hall of Fame players on his team with him during his heyday...

Fedorov at his peak had 4 consecutive 20 point playoffs in a row playing against the other teams best centers and he also doesn't have any year where he was as bad as Ovechkin was in 12-13 and 16-17.

Also Fedorov in his best years, the 4 year consecutive 20 plus points simply is better than Ovechkin's Conn Smythe winning year as well.

That's why I would build a team around Fedorov in his peak instead of Ovechkin which was the question asked.

Ovechkin of course has had the better overall career.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

I actually have Harvey listed 3 times as I was celebrating Saturday night a bit too much but that being said Ovechkin doesn't have a clear case over all of those guys......yet.

One day he might but you really need to look at some of those players careers again.

He has a clear case over Richard, that argument is over and it's hard to keep guys with worse stats in the conversation equally when they played in a league with 6 to 14 teams and without global talent flooding in. They only guy I'd argue that I bolded has a case is Roy and generally goalies are in a conversation of their own entirely. Bourque is not better than Ovechkin, neither is Harvey or Belliveau. He's absolutely the greatest Russian born player to play in the NHL and everything supports that, you can prefer Fedorov if you're so inclined but Ovechkin has had a better career clearly.

 

[Sentinel]

Guy doesn't even have as many playoff goals as Bossy, I guess part of that was Bossy showed up in the playoff and Ovi did too, once...

(1) He didn't play nearly as many playoff games as Bossy. Add to that 80s scoring in general.
(2) He doesn't have Brian Trottier or Denis Potvin feeding him the pucks.
(3) How many Art Rosses, Harts, and Richards does Bossy have?
(4) How many games did Bossy play after the age of 30?

 

[Sentinel]

Question. Who would you take a prime Ovechkin or prime Fedorov?

If you need a goal, you take Ovechkin. If you need anything else, you take Fedorov. But, chances are, you are more likely to get a goal from Ovechkin than something from Fedorov.

Ovy is just a freak of consistency.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Malkin carried Crosby to Cups scoring more than him 2 times of 3.
Just cant get ongoing attempts of this guy to make team achievements looking as personal.
Ovie never had somebody who performs at playoffs as Malkin. One of th Elite league centers

Backstrom is not bad

 

[ant123]

Backstrom is not bad

Not bad at all, but not elite generational talent level, like Malkin.
Pens has quite a rare nowadays situation, they have 2 centres who are well-established elite generational talents.

 

[jj cale]

I think jagr is the guy that should be considered for that spot.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

He certainly has a place in the top 10 forwards

GRETZKY
HOWE
JAGR
HULL
MESSIER
MCDAVID
BELIVEAU
OVECHKIN
LAFLEUR
LINDSAY

 

[wetcoast]

Not bad at all, but not elite generational talent level, like Malkin.
Pens has quite a rare nowadays situation, they have 2 centres who are well-established elite generational talents.

So while I agree with your point that Malkin is better than backstrom, there is no way that you can have 3 elite generational talent level guys in 2 consecutive drafts.

That really is watering down the term generational.

 

[bobbyking]

So while I agree with your point that Malkin is better than backstrom, there is no way that you can have 3 elite generational talent level guys in 2 consecutive drafts.

That really is watering down the term generational.

90s generational players/talents: lindros hasek jagr lidstrom

 

[GreatGonzo]

90s generational players/talents: lindros hasek jagr lidstrom

I wouldn’t say Lindros was a generational player but a would be generational talent, only couldn’t live up to that in terms of overall career.

So while I agree with your point that Malkin is better than backstrom, there is no way that you can have 3 elite generational talent level guys in 2 consecutive drafts.

That really is watering down the term generational.

You have a point, although Malkin is on that level with Crosby and Ovechkin, only injuries set him back. Generational? That’s a tough word to really describe. Crosby and Ovechkin are considered generational players not just on their talent, but overall careers. Their achievements, impact, dominance, even numbers. Malkin is up their with them talent wise but unfortunately lacks the consistency and overall achievements of the others. He also plays on the same team as Crosby.

 

[TopG]

I just got here but I hope there aren't people that actually think Ovy is top 10 all time lol

 

[wetcoast]

90s generational players/talents: lindros hasek jagr lidstrom

Then you are using the term too lightly and throwing it around.

Lindros was indeed a generational prospect who had scouts drooling from the age of 15, Hasek spent time in the minors and Lidstrom went on to have an awesome career but wasn't out of place being drafted in the 3rd round.

Of course the last 3 players all went on to have awesome NHL careers and Lindros was riddled with injuries.

Lindros was probably a generational prospect and Jagr was very close (but he wasn't an instant hit in the NHL either)

 

[FrozenJagrt]

I just got here but I hope there aren't people that actually think Ovy is top 10 all time lol

The records, raw numbers and hardware make an extremely compelling argument.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Fedorov at his peak had 4 consecutive 20 point playoffs in a row playing against the other teams best centers and he also doesn't have any year where he was as bad as Ovechkin was in 12-13 and 16-17.

Also Fedorov in his best years, the 4 year consecutive 20 plus points simply is better than Ovechkin's Conn Smythe winning year as well.

That's why I would build a team around Fedorov in his peak instead of Ovechkin which was the question asked.

Ovechkin of course has had the better overall career.

Lol.

 

[Neutrinos]

I equate scoring goals in hockey to hitting home runs in baseball

Just being among the best home run hitters of all-time, doesn't automatically qualify someone as one of the best players of all-time

 

[Hatfield]

Fedorov at his peak had 4 consecutive 20 point playoffs in a row playing against the other teams best centers and he also doesn't have any year where he was as bad as Ovechkin was in 12-13 and 16-17.

Also Fedorov in his best years, the 4 year consecutive 20 plus points simply is better than Ovechkin's Conn Smythe winning year as well.

That's why I would build a team around Fedorov in his peak instead of Ovechkin which was the question asked.

Ovechkin of course has had the better overall career.

Have you considered that Fedorov played on a pre-cap team loaded with future HOFers, easily the most dominant teams of the 90s, and as a result were a playoff juggernaut every year? Of course he put up a lot of points in the playoffs.

By contrast, Ovechkin has only played more than 14 postseason games one time.

 

[Neutrinos]

He certainly has a place in the top 10 forwards

GRETZKY
HOWE
JAGR
HULL
MESSIER
MCDAVID
BELIVEAU
OVECHKIN
LAFLEUR
LINDSAY

So do Lemieux and Crosby

 

[gtrower]

I equate scoring goals in hockey to hitting home runs in baseball

Just being among the best home run hitters of all-time, doesn't automatically qualify someone as one of the best players of all-time

^ this guy hockeys

 

[Voight]

He also never had the help Crosby had. Ovechkin has never been able to be held scoreless in a series while still having the luxury of his team pulling out the W, Crosby has multiple times. He's never had another gamebreaker until Kuznetsov until 17/18 and he didn't have a goaltender at all in his early years.

Context matters, always.

b..bb..b...but he had Backstrom !!!!!!!!11!!!!1!!!!!!!

 

[Muikea Bulju]

Judging by the length of this thread / discussion, Ovechkin either for sure is in the Top10, or at least very close to it, depending on who you ask.

If this would be a completely preposterous suggestion, nobody would be biting on it this hard, there would be no debate.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

He certainly has a place in the top 10 forwards

GRETZKY
HOWE
JAGR
HULL
MESSIER
MCDAVID
BELIVEAU
OVECHKIN
LAFLEUR
LINDSAY

What, no Lemieux? You have Jagr, but no Lemieux?

No matter how much anyone hates the current Penguins, there's no denying when it comes to Lemieux's level of play. No matter how many injuries he piled up, he still got to way over 1500+ points in less than 1000 games.

In my books, Lemieux is many tiers above Jagr.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I equate scoring goals in hockey to hitting home runs in baseball

Just being among the best home run hitters of all-time, doesn't automatically qualify someone as one of the best players of all-time

Those two don’t correlate at all. Many consider guys like Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron as the best of the best to ever play, and yet all 3 are within the top 5 in home runs. Different sports, different ways of judgement. Unless your a picture, most of the all time greats in baseball are mainly judged on their hitting and homers.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Backstrom is not bad

Backstrom is incredible, but he's never been an Evgeni Malkin level of game breaker.