Ovechkin top 10 player of all time?

[Dicky113]

You must be a Mike Gartner super fan. How can your opinion be taken seriously on this issue when you suggest Gartner is just on the outside of the top 10.

Mike Gartner had one lone season of over 100 points while playing during his prime during the 80s. He was never once top 3 in All Star voting, one season in the top 10 in points where he was 10th, one season where he was top 5 in goals. His 93 playoff points looks ok except for the fact that it game in 122 playoff games.

I’m pretty sure that actually was Mike Gartner. He’s been known to lurk around here and there is no other credible explanation for that post.

 

[Video Nasty]

If he breaks the goals record and also finishes inside the top 10 in points all time with all the hardware he has collected, it's a compelling case and if you limit it to top 10 forwards, I think he's pretty much a lock.

 

[JJ68]

I always find it amusing when people compare resumes by what they collected and their trophy hardware. Some extremely amazing players could have had more trophies had they not been playing in the same era as Wayne and Mario. Guys like Ovie would not have won what they did had he been playing in that era. So dont compare him in a way that doesnt make sense when discussing players from the past. Has Ovie been dominating other players of his era in points year by year? Yeah he scores lots of goals, he is perhaps one of the best ever in that category no doubt, but the true greats are getting you 40 goals a year with at least 60 assists.

I'm sorry but when you've got like 17 assists so far right now, and you accumulate about 30 to 35 in a season, it doesnt strike me as a complete offensive player.

Jagr was a beast because not only could he do it all himself, but he made his linemates like Hridna and Straka dangerous. Jags was collecting 123 points at the age of like 35.

Gotta be more than one dimensional.

 

[gtrower]

I always find it amusing when people compare resumes by what they collected and their trophy hardware. Some extremely amazing players could have had more trophies had they not been playing in the same era as Wayne and Mario. Guys like Ovie would not have won what they did had he been playing in that era. So dont compare him in a way that doesnt make sense when discussing players from the past. Has Ovie been dominating other players of his era in points year by year? Yeah he scores lots of goals, he is perhaps one of the best ever in that category no doubt, but the true greats are getting you 40 goals a year with at least 60 assists.

I'm sorry but when you've got like 17 assists so far right now, and you accumulate about 30 to 35 in a season, it doesnt strike me as a complete offensive player.

Jagr was a beast because not only could he do it all himself, but he made his linemates like Hridna and Straka dangerous. Jags was collecting 123 points at the age of like 35.

Gotta be more than one dimensional.

Jagr put up 123 at age 33. After not topping 80 the previous 5 seasons. And only once after. He was a ppg player exactly 3 times after his age 28 season. Ovi already has 3 with a 4th likely incoming this season. This is a weird name to throw out there for comparison.

We will never know what Ovi would have done in Gretzky’s era. But we do know that Gretzky has said publicly that he was fortunate to play in his era because “its a lot harder to score now.”

And we haven’t even gotten into the fact that Ovi’s peak years match up favorably with other all time greats. You’re making some lofty claims here with zero numbers to back them up.

 

[JJ68]

Jagr put up 123 at age 33. After not topping 80 the previous 5 seasons. And only once after. He was a ppg player exactly 3 times after his age 28 season. Ovi already has 3 with a 4th likely incoming this season. This is a weird name to throw out there for comparison.

We will never know what Ovi would have done in Gretzky’s era. But we do know that Gretzky has said publicly that he was fortunate to play in his era because “its a lot harder to score now.”

And we haven’t even gotten into the fact that Ovi’s peak years match up favorably with other all time greats. You’re making some lofty claims here with zero numbers to back them up.

You meant to say previous 3 seasons, as one of those seasons was a lockout year and in the year right after his 121 point season, he recorded 79 in just 69 games. He then had an easy PPG 96 point season after that 123 point season and left for the KHL. When he returned he was like 40. And still put up more points than many star players....like in the 2015-16 season when Jagr at his advanced age put up 5 less points than a PRIME Ovechkin. You wanna know what a prime Jagr would do to the NHL?

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

I always find it amusing when people compare resumes by what they collected and their trophy hardware. Some extremely amazing players could have had more trophies had they not been playing in the same era as Wayne and Mario. Guys like Ovie would not have won what they did had he been playing in that era. So dont compare him in a way that doesnt make sense when discussing players from the past. Has Ovie been dominating other players of his era in points year by year? Yeah he scores lots of goals, he is perhaps one of the best ever in that category no doubt, but the true greats are getting you 40 goals a year with at least 60 assists.

I'm sorry but when you've got like 17 assists so far right now, and you accumulate about 30 to 35 in a season, it doesnt strike me as a complete offensive player.

Jagr was a beast because not only could he do it all himself, but he made his linemates like Hridna and Straka dangerous. Jags was collecting 123 points at the age of like 35.

Gotta be more than one dimensional.

You just lost all credibility with your last sentence.

 

[Sentinel]

Oh I get ya. He was disgusting and if he had longer career he would have probably held the records brodeur has. I am no brodeur fan by any means but ya gotta give the guy his due. He’s the best goalie of all time.
He has the most wins all time, and is 140 wins ahead of Roy in second.

125 shutouts is first by over 20 shutout lead on sawchuk who’s second.

Hasek has two more vezinas then brodeur but Marty has a Stanley cup and conn smythe.

Plus he had two goals! Lol

Actually come to think of, I would put sawchuk ahead of Roy I think.

Brodeur is not even a Top 5 goalie of all time (Hasek, Roy, Plante, Tretiak, Sawchuk, possibly Hall and Dryden). His 2 goals scored is not enough to put him there.

 

[Goldmember]

Ovechkin is very overrated player. At the same time he is one of the best goal scorers of all time. BUT I would still rather have wingers like: Kane, Selänne and Bossy in important games. Ovechkin is probably the most overrated player to ever play the game.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Greatest since Mario/Jagr. Obviously Crosby up there too; but whereas Crosby had injuries Ovie stayed healthy. If that's all it takes for Gretzy to be ranked above Mario, then it's only deserved that Ovie is ranked above Crosby. Sorry Pitt. Sorry you had Mario, Crosby, Jagr and Malkin. Must be tough to be you. I'm sorry Ovie had a better career. Good luck dealing with that.

 

[JJ68]

You just lost all credibility with your last sentence.

In your opinion that may be the case. But you'd be biased.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Ovechkin is very overrated player. At the same time he is one of the best goal scorers of all time. BUT I would still rather have wingers like: Kane, Selänne and Bossy in important games. Ovechkin is probably the most overrated player to ever play the game.

You forgot the sarcasm emoticon because you can't even be remotely serious.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

In your opinion that may be the case. But you'd be biased.

No, not just in my opinion. Any objective fan of hockey would see that you are flat out wrong.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I always find it amusing when people compare resumes by what they collected and their trophy hardware. Some extremely amazing players could have had more trophies had they not been playing in the same era as Wayne and Mario. Guys like Ovie would not have won what they did had he been playing in that era. So dont compare him in a way that doesnt make sense when discussing players from the past. Has Ovie been dominating other players of his era in points year by year? Yeah he scores lots of goals, he is perhaps one of the best ever in that category no doubt, but the true greats are getting you 40 goals a year with at least 60 assists.

I'm sorry but when you've got like 17 assists so far right now, and you accumulate about 30 to 35 in a season, it doesnt strike me as a complete offensive player.

Jagr was a beast because not only could he do it all himself, but he made his linemates like Hridna and Straka dangerous. Jags was collecting 123 points at the age of like 35.

Gotta be more than one dimensional.

Except that whole illusion that players suffered due to Gretzky and Lemieux being in the league has been an excuse used far to many times. I mean, what players are tot referring to that would have won more if not for those guys? Because that can spread out to dozens of players regardless, there is no telling specific players who were victims of it. Also, you then stated how Ovechkin wouldn’t be winning anything if playing in an era with Gretzky and Lemieux....ok? And? No one would most likely, even Crosby. But facts are that Ovechkins goal scoring for this era is incredibly dominant and consistent when looking at different eras.

there you go with these sudden standards. True all time greats? There is no standard, your just making one right now in order to put his goal scoring on the back burner, which is pretty disrespectful given how prolific is goal scoring is. When your considered THE best of all time, or at least one, you don’t just get to have that ignored for a second and go...”Ya that’s nice and all but his assists aren’t impressive at all, so by that logic, his offense isn’t all that impressive either.”

I mean sure he isn’t the most well rounded offensive player, doesn’t mean he isn’t one of the best of all time. Scoring goals is the most valuable part of offense. You don’t stack up assists unless the guy your passing to scores, right? And when your dominating goal scoring like he has, you definitely get to be in the conversation.

Again, it’s not one dimensional when your helping your line mates gather assists by scoring a lot of goals. It goes both ways. Ovechkin has already showed he can score without Ovechkin, Kuzy, or Carlson. But have they shown they can score without Ovi? Don’t you think having the best goal scorer on your line, as a center, is beneficial to your stats and play?

Also Ovechkin has 8 top 10 point finishes and a scoring title. His goal scoring may be a majority of his offense, but that doesn’t mean his lack of assists mean he’s less offensively dangerous.

seriously. There’s a freaking award for goal scoring, not who has the most assists, and Ovechkin has won it more times than any player, including Lemieux and Gretzky. Why assists are suddenly being used as a measurement of who is and isn’t good offensively only shows how many are so eager to discredit Ovi by moving goal posts and changing the entirety of what is and isn’t valuable. Last time I checked, Goals win games. The guy with 50-60 assists doesn’t have any without the guy pulling the trigger. One clearly depends more on the other.

 

[Goldmember]

You forgot the sarcasm emoticon because you can't even be remotely serious.

I am serious. Ovie is the best goal scorer in the regular season but he is not one of the players in my opinion you would choose to win games.

 

[GreatGonzo]

You meant to say previous 3 seasons, as one of those seasons was a lockout year and in the year right after his 121 point season, he recorded 79 in just 69 games. He then had an easy PPG 96 point season after that 123 point season and left for the KHL. When he returned he was like 40. And still put up more points than many star players....like in the 2015-16 season when Jagr at his advanced age put up 5 less points than a PRIME Ovechkin. You wanna know what a prime Jagr would do to the NHL?

Jagr was amazing no doubt and was one of the most dominant offensive players ever. I think what makes their situation different though is consistency. Jagr arguably had a bigger peak/prime, but Ovechkin still walked away with 3 Lindsays and Harts while being the leagues best goal scorer.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I am serious. Ovie is the best goal scorer in the regular season but he is not on of the players in my opinion you would choose to win games.

Weird how the guy who was voted most valuable and most outstanding by the players 3 separate times, while being a runner up for both 2 other times, with a cup and Smythe.....still doesn’t convince you enough that his play has won plenty of games and has made a significant impact on his team.

Oh well....

 

[Sentinel]

Ovechkin is very overrated player. At the same time he is one of the best goal scorers of all time. BUT I would still rather have wingers like: Kane, Selänne and Bossy in important games. Ovechkin is probably the most overrated player to ever play the game.

Then you don't know what you're talking about. Kane has a grand total of ONE Hart and ZERO Richards. Selanne has ZERO Harts and THREE Richards. Bossy has ZERO Harts and TWO Richards.

Ovechkin has THREE Harts and EIGHT Richards, soon to be 9. He even has the same amount of Conn Smythes as Bossy and Kane. Plus he played more physical game than Kane, Teemu, and Bossy combined. He will have 700 goals soon. If this says "overrated" to you, you are simply a biased hater.

 

[Goldmember]

If Ovie and Crosby would play against each other 10 minute periods, Crosby would win 10/10.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Ovechkin is very overrated player. At the same time he is one of the best goal scorers of all time. BUT I would still rather have wingers like: Kane, Selänne and Bossy in important games. Ovechkin is probably the most overrated player to ever play the game.

Is Kane on the second line getting the best deployments and match ups? Does Bossy come with Trottier?....and when has Selanne been THE guy that hits big in important games. Odd choice.

 

[Goldmember]

Weird how the guy who was voted most valuable and most outstanding by the players 3 separate times, while being a runner up for both 2 other times, with a cup and Smythe.....still doesn’t convince you enough that his play has won plenty of games and has made a significant impact on his team.

Oh well....

He is great on the regular season but nothing special when it matters.

 

[Goldmember]

Is Kane on the second line getting the best deployments and match ups? Does Bossy come with Trottier?....and when has Selanne been THE guy that hits big in important games. Odd choice.

Whatch hockey and learn.

 

[GreatGonzo]

If Ovie and Crosby would play against each other 10 minute periods, Crosby would win 10/10.

Well this isn’t basketball so your little make believe one on one game holds little to the conversation. If that’s what you want to think, then that’s all you. It’s just really silly and unrealistic.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

I am serious. Ovie is the best goal scorer in the regular season but he is not on of the players in my opinion you would choose to win games.

Oh, I see. Ovie has never been the problem when the Caps lose in the playoffs. He has a pretty good track record in Game 7s. Not to mention his Conn Smythe.

Regular season, 110 GWGs. Playoffs 9 GWGs.

I'll take him in a big game. Not overrated as your ridiculous claim asserts.

 

[Sentinel]

In your opinion that may be the case. But you'd be biased.

He is not wrong. You did lose credibility. One thing Ovechkin is not is "one-dimensional." His 3000 hits and 570 assists say otherwise.

 

[GreatGonzo]

He is great on the regular season but nothing special when it matters.

So when does “it matter?” Playoffs? A Stanley cup or smythe ring a bell? That suddenly doesn’t matter? Sitting third currently in playoff points and PPG, while having one less goal than Crosby in 36 less games?

Your argument holds no weight. It’s literally useless.