Ovechkin top 10 player of all time?

[FrozenJagrt]

Correct, I factor everything. If he ends up #1 in goals. He will probably be around 20's in all time points. 1 Championship. 40% ppg. 80% goals scored the same way. Never carried a line. Always needed top talent and advantage to score. Might crack Top 200 all time +/-. He would be in the 40-50 range. If he goes off and gets another Championship. Then 30 range.

His all time points and +/- tell the better story of his all time standings and impact in a team sport than just goals.

Here's some more numbers

1 Calder trophy
1 Conn Smythe
1 Art Ross trophy
3 Hart trophies
3 Pearson/Lindsay Awards
8 Richard trophies (more than anyone, retro or otherwise)
8 First AST
4 Second AST
698 goals
1268 points
8 50 goal seasons

 

[PREDy 4 the Cup]

Hasek is above Sakic. Not close. I debated on putting Messier top ten. But Harvey was so dominant.

I just did my list with no goalies. I would think if I included goalies I could not do a list with hasek and not have Roy and Brodeur too.

 

[HTFN]

Correct, I factor everything. If he ends up #1 in goals. He will probably be around 20's in all time points. 1 Championship. 40% ppg. 80% goals scored the same way. Never carried a line. Always needed top talent and advantage to score. Might crack Top 200 all time +/-. He would be in the 40-50 range. If he goes off and gets another Championship. Then 30 range.

His all time points and +/- tell the better story of his all time standings and impact in a team sport than just goals.

This is a top tier garbage post. Just unreal.

Learned today that Alexander Ovechkin has never carried a line. Would say you can’t make this up, but that’s actually the only way you can say it.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Even if Ovechkin has very good shot that does not mean shooting is the right option in every situation. That is why he has 40+17 this season. He spams shots in situtions where pass would be better decision. For example Panarin is a great example. He plays with scrubs but is able to elevate them because he almost always makes the right decision on ice. Sometimes it is shot and sometimes pass. But he is ble to figure it out very quickly and make the decision. Points matter more than goals.

And when it comes to your games argument that is just silly. Injuries for the most part are because of luck. Ovechkin has had more luck. That does not mean he is more impactful or better player.

You make it sound like your the expert on how Ovechkin should play hockey, and yet his style has brought him and his team great success. I don’t understand your logic on the times he “should have” passed first when your completely being ignorant over the fact that he’s a goal scorer, and the best one in the league. Your logic is the goal scorer shouldn’t try to score goals, but pass.....and to who? Who is just as good of a goal scorer on the Caps? Who has a better chance of putting it in the net?

Your just part of the same crowd who suddenly like to push this idea that assists are more important and gathering them like Crosby does is the only way to win games. That’s clearly wrong. Goal scoring is and always will be more valuable. In the end when someone passes Ovechkin the puck, his ability to put it in the net makes that person better, it gives that player assists totals. It goes both ways. There is a reason why there is a reason why there is an award for goal scorers and not the player with the most assists. Basic stuff.

[mod]

 

[GreatGonzo]

Umm.. You ignored the Championship part? +/-. Linemates. Etc.

You can't just look at goals and go, he's 8 all time so definitely Top 10 player all time. Who does that? Nobody does that in baseball for home runs or basketball with points. All I was saying is if you are going strictly off that then points is a better parameter. He's 38 all time in points and about where I have him as all time player.

What do line mates have to do with it? Gretzky, Lemieux, even Orr all had great line mates. A lot of the all time greats did.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Correct, I factor everything. If he ends up #1 in goals. He will probably be around 20's in all time points. 1 Championship. 40% ppg. 80% goals scored the same way. Never carried a line. Always needed top talent and advantage to score. Might crack Top 200 all time +/-. He would be in the 40-50 range. If he goes off and gets another Championship. Then 30 range.

His all time points and +/- tell the better story of his all time standings and impact in a team sport than just goals.

Before it was “he has no cup so he’s not even close.” Now it’s “he has one cup, not enough”

Scored the same way? Never carried a line? Always needed top end talent to score? Do you honestly just sit there spouting off this nonsense and actually think there is any facts behind it outside of your his way of thinking? We get it, you don’t care for Ovechkin.

He sits 37th all time In points, and once again. There are 15-20 players above him that he has clearly passed. Again your “expertise” isn’t as valuable as you make it out to be.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Here's some more numbers

1 Calder trophy
1 Conn Smythe
1 Art Ross trophy
3 Hart trophies
3 Pearson/Lindsay Awards
8 Richard trophies (more than anyone, retro or otherwise)
8 First AST
4 Second AST
698 goals
1268 points
8 50 goal seasons

Nah dude, still not enough. He doesn’t have enough assists. You can’t be anywhere near the top 10 all time without a certain number of assists. Plus he isn’t as good as Crosby so....

 

[SouthGeorge]

This is a top tier garbage post. Just unreal.

Learned today that Alexander Ovechkin has never carried a line. Would say you can’t make this up, but that’s actually the only way you can say it.

Wingers are like wide receivers. Only as good as their teammates. How many goals does Ovi have if he doesn't play with Backstrom and Carlson most of his career?

 

[SouthGeorge]

Nah dude, still not enough. He doesn’t have enough assists. You can’t be anywhere near the top 10 all time without a certain number of assists. Plus he isn’t as good as Crosby so....

Your acting like 40-50 all time in a sport is disrespectful... It's a great accomplishment.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Wingers are like wide receivers. Only as good as their teammates. How many goals does Ovi have if he doesn't play with Backstrom and Carlson most of his career?

Yeah, that Mike Bossy was a total plug.

Maurice Richard? Carried by his linemates.

Bobby Hull? What an untalented leech.

Gordie Howe? Garbage.

Please think before you post such drivel.

 

[gtrower]

Wingers are like wide receivers. Only as good as their teammates. How many goals does Ovi have if he doesn't play with Backstrom and Carlson most of his career?

You are the Pens fan HF deserves. I applaud you.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Your acting like 40-50 all time in a sport is disrespectful... It's a great accomplishment.

Compared to what he has accomplished, it’s extremely disrespectful and quite bias against him. It’s cute how you try to make it sound like your doing him a favor, but your the minority here, the sooner you realize that, the better.

Since for Ovechkin, his all time rank has to be where his all time point totals stand(37th), are you suggesting that everyone ahead of him is better?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Wingers are like wide receivers. Only as good as their teammates. How many goals does Ovi have if he doesn't play with Backstrom and Carlson most of his career?

How many cups and smythes does Crosby have without Malkin? Think about it.

Also Carlson? Ovi has already won a Hart, Art Ross, two Lindsays, and two Rockets before he came to the league. And he had no impact on Ovechkins 2010 season. I’m sure his 34 point average from 2011-2017 was just so beneficial for Ovechkin

If your going to use things against Ovechkin, make sure your information is actually correct. Don’t just spout off nonesense and think no one is going to fact check your opinion.

 

[Hatfield]

How many cups and smythes does Crosby have without Malkin? Think about it.

Also Carlson? Ovi has already won a Hart, Art Ross, two Lindsays, and two Rockets before he came to the league. And he had no impact on Ovechkins 2010 season. I’m sure his 34 point average from 2011-2017 was just so beneficial for Ovechkin

If your going to use things against Ovechkin, make sure your information is actually correct. Don’t just spout off nonesense and think no one is going to fact check your opinion.

Guy's just a Pens troll. He's mad that Ovechkin is getting more love than Crosby right now, and he's clearly terrified that Ovie might go down in history as the better player.

I wouldn't bother arguing with him.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

TIL that Jeff Halpern and Dainius Zubrus were great linemates.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Your acting like 40-50 all time in a sport is disrespectful... It's a great accomplishment.

Can you name 30-40 players with better resumes than the one I posted?

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Umm.. You ignored the Championship part? +/-. Linemates. Etc.

You can't just look at goals and go, he's 8 all time so definitely Top 10 player all time. Who does that? Nobody does that in baseball for home runs or basketball with points. All I was saying is if you are going strictly off that then points is a better parameter. He's 38 all time in points and about where I have him as all time player.

Actually, he’s 37th. Do keep up.

Your favourite player is 39th.

 

[COHawk]

Kind of crazy Ovi only has one Art Ross. Know he hasn't been one to put up plentiful assists through his entire career, but he has finished 2nd and 3rd a handful of times.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Muhmuhmuhmuh DFENS

Kings suffocating the Capitals, up 2-1 with 8 minutes to go. Selke Kopitar, two way Jeff Carter, best defenseman of this generation drew Doughty all plugging away playing Muh Defense

In a span of 5 minutes Ovechkin puts up a 3 spot and might as well be the only player on the ice for either team. Singlehandedly takes a game his team would lose and turns it into a victory. But the completely arbitrary "defense" reputation of the guys he's up against remains intact, because no one actually cares to quantify how much plugging away at muh defense at the expense of game breaking offense can hurt their team. Dog the game breaking offensive players for potential goal against allowed all day but don't ever blame muh defensive stalwarts for not scoring enough to win a game

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Kind of crazy Ovi only has one Art Ross. Know he hasn't been one to put up plentiful assists through his entire career, but he has finished 2nd and 3rd a handful of times.

If you look at points per game with a minimum of 70 games played, he's lead the League 3 times, IIRC.

 

[koyvoo]

Muhmuhmuhmuh DFENS

Kings suffocating the Capitals, up 2-1 with 8 minutes to go. Selke Kopitar, two way Jeff Carter, best defenseman of this generation drew Doughty all plugging away playing Muh Defense

In a span of 5 minutes Ovechkin puts up a 3 spot and might as well be the only player on the ice for either team. Singlehandedly takes a game his team would lose and turns it into a victory. But the completely arbitrary "defense" reputation of the guys he's up against remains intact, because no one actually cares to quantify how much plugging away at muh defense at the expense of game breaking offense can hurt their team. Dog the game breaking offensive players for potential goal against allowed all day but don't ever blame muh defensive stalwarts for not scoring enough to win a game

My intent is by no means to take anything away from Ovechkin, but let’s not act like this is the 2012-2014 kings here. They’ve allowed the 5th most goals in the league. They’ve been lit up plenty of times and have had many defensive breakdowns.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

My intent is by no means to take anything away from Ovechkin, but let’s not act like this is the 2012-2014 kings here. They’ve allowed the 5th most goals in the league. They’ve been lit up plenty of times and have had many defensive breakdowns.

I'm merely pointing out how in the eyes of many Ovechkin singlehandedly winning a game is canceled out by him not doing whatever shit they're convinced an offensive winger needs to do defensively on a random play. Crap players with the reputation of defensive stalwarts routinely don'tddo as well (I've watched the Caps rookies abuse unquestioned champion of le winger defense in the NHL Mark Stone like it was his first time holding a hockey stick on multiple occasions) but get a pass for.

I understand not being a liability but in this day and age defense is little more than a catch all excuse for people to lump their favorite 60 point players with 90 point players. Just look how long Toews was put on a pedestal with/above Kane, Backstrom, Giroux even Malkin despite being a glorified Jordan Staal

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Without question he is, as is Crosby. The only question at this point is where they end up respectively. Anyone that doesn't have the 2 of them there by now is just delusional or wearing very heavily tinted nostalgia goggles that should be thrown out ASAP.

 

[IceBjoern]

Wingers are like wide receivers. Only as good as their teammates. How many goals does Ovi have if he doesn't play with Backstrom and Carlson most of his career?

Crosby could set me up for wide open net shots all night long and not get a single assists in the process. Ovechkin is one of the most accurate shooters with or without Backstrom.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Wingers are like wide receivers. Only as good as their teammates. How many goals does Ovi have if he doesn't play with Backstrom and Carlson most of his career?

Ovechkin has carried lines without Backstrom, Backstrom hasn't carried anything without Ovechkin and Ovi was scoring loooonnnggg before Carlson became a stalwart on this team. You clearly haven't watched much hockey, but nice try.