Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Bear of Bad News]

I'm an older guy and not into memes so what does that even mean?

Rein this diversion in, please.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

To quote myself from another thread, here's the progression of the franchise goals record going over the past century:

Date	Player	Goals	Days	Years	World events (approximate)
18-Feb-22	Cy Denneny	246	4,376	11.99	USSR formed, Mussolini in power
11-Feb-34	Howie Morenz	247	1,078	2.95	Great Depression, Hitler in power
24-Jan-37	Aurel Joliat	258	5,093	13.95	Chamberlain PM of UK, Japan invades China, prelude to WWII
04-Jan-51	Maurice Richard	270	4,693	12.86	Start of Korean war, Queen Elizabeth soon becomes monarch
10-Nov-63	Gordie Howe	545	21,545	59.03	MLK speech, The Beatles' first album, JFK killed, Vietnam war
05-Nov-22	Alex Ovechkin	787	???	???	COVID-19 pandemic winding down, death of Queen Elizabeth

When Howe set the record, man hadn't yet landed on the moon.

what about Gretzky? or did Gretzky not break the franchise goal record?

 

[norrisnick]

what about Gretzky? or did Gretzky not break the franchise goal record?

Wayne was over 200 goals short. Top four are Ov, the recently made #2 Howe, Yzerman and Mario in the 690s.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

what about Gretzky? or did Gretzky not break the franchise goal record?

That's one of the relatively few records Gretzky doesn't have:

Alex Ovechkin	788+	Capitals
Gordie Howe	786	Red Wings
Steve Yzerman	692	Red Wings
Mario Lemieux	690	Penguins
Joe Sakic	625	Avalanche (Nordiques)
Bobby Hull	604	Blackhawks
Wayne Gretzky	583	Oilers
Mike Bossy	573	Islanders
Mike Modano	557	Stars (North Stars)
Luc Robitaille	557	Kings
Marcel Dionne	550	Kings
Johnny Bucyk	545	Bruins
Maurice Richard	544	Canadiens
Stan Mikita	541	Blackhawks
Brett Hull	527	Blues
Jarome Iginla	525	Flames
Sidney Crosby	523+	Penguins
Patrick Marleau	522	Sharks
Guy LaFleur	518	Canadiens
Gilbert Perreault	512	Sabres
Jean Beliveau	507	Canadiens
Bryan Trottier	500	Islanders

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah, I don't believe you. Considering how much time and energy you spend bashing Ovie, seemingly every time he's discussed on this forum, you seem pretty obsessed.

Maybe it's time to find a new hobby if a professional athlete bothers you so much.

Frankly I don't care what you believe and have stated where I stand, if you think that I'm lying that's on you obviously.

As for the rest of your comments they literally have no meaning as they are founded on nothing.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Seems inevitable that he passes Howe this year. Is he still on pace for the best goal scoring season by a 36 year old?

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Seems inevitable that he passes Howe this year. Is he still on pace for the best goal scoring season by a 36 year old?

He's 37, he already had the best goal scoring season for a 36 year old.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

He's 37, he already had the best goal scoring season for a 36 year old.

Obviously I meant 37.

 

[wetcoast]

Obviously I meant 37.

My guess would be yes as off the top of my head Buyck had 40 goals at age 37, Selanne had a partial season at that age.

Gordie Howe had a expansion bump at ages 39 and 40 but is easily within range for ages 37 and 38.

 

[YippieKaey]

I see this as directly supporting my argument that Ovi is Hull 2.0, yet it feels like you posted this to try to own my argument with stats or something.

Those stats show Ovi as a dominant goal scorer with limited playmaking outside of creating his own chances (which I 100% acknowledge is at the highest level). The most important stat in there is that Ovi was Top 10 for assists only three times in his career. So was Taylor Hall I think. (I don't know, I'd have to look, but that's the type of player that's lower Top 10 a few times in his career.)

Ovi is one of about a dozen players that will end his career with more goals than assists.

The list looks like this in terms of top goals to assists ratios:

Bondra: 1.3
Richard: 1.29
Ovi: 1.24
Bure: 1.18
Brett Hull: 1.14

So how is it not fair to say that Ovi is a better version of Brett Hull? Who is a better 2.0 version of?

I put their stat lines together, can you tell me which is which without names? (Obviously you can because Ovi passed him for goals, but I'm making a point)

View attachment 604927

A better version of Brett Hull plus leading the league in hits since they started counting can be conceptualized as a top 5 player all time.

 

[YippieKaey]

Like I said, I don't disagree, I'm probably slighting Hull more than I should, but I'm giving him the treatment a lot of people give Ovechkin now.....standing there and one-timing it from the faceoff circle. There is some truth to that now about Ovi and Hull....just can't remember enough of Hull's game, but I do know for sure, he was never a good skater, never made the plays that Ovechkin used to make....again, shouldn't say never as most of what I saw of Hull was just highlights, never played for a team I watched that much.

The highlighted part, is that really true of Ovechkin though? Spent 5-8 years routinely skating end to end and scoring? I've watched a lot of his games, but definitely not most of them, so I'm actually asking curiously as I don't remember seeing many of that in highlights.....he certainly scored some highlight reel goals, but don't think that bolded part was a big part of his game.

Yes. Add a lot of hitting to that and you have Ovi from 05-13-14 basically. Watch some old games, extremely entertaining player and really a one man show unlike Hull who always had a great playmaker feeding him the puck. Basically Hull was always Hull. Ovi used to be Hull + Pavel Bure + power forward.

Yes, but the "rule" you suggest isn't really the rule either. I'm a huge math and stats guy myself, but you can only take such analysis so far....you really need to watch the games at some point

Didn't you previously say you haven't watched many Ovi games?

 

[YippieKaey]

So let me get this straight, if it's not really thread related but boosts Ovi then it's all good but if one presents actuals stats which can be confirmed by the eye test showing something that isn't 100% Ovi positive then it's off thread topic?

But then again you seem to have a history of being very selective in evaluating this particular player, the whole picture gives context.

Ovi has had a great run and is still an elite opportunist goal scorer but the sun is clearly setting on him and that stats (+/-) and offensive zone starts to go along with once again premium PP TOI are part of the landscape and to cast shade on them serves exactly what purpose.

Oh I know if it doesn't show Ovi in a 100% absolutely favorable light then we must dismiss it right?

Would you go to someones wedding only to point out that the person getting married is kind of shit in bed? Would you go to a birthday party and call the birthday person old? Would you go to a bar mitzvah and laugh at someone's small schlong?

Cause that's kind of what you're doing here.....

 

[kmart]

what is the next reachable milestone

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[Colezuki]

A better version of Brett Hull plus leading the league in hits since they started counting can be conceptualized as a top 5 player all time.

I’ve grown to love ovechkin as I’ve gotten older, but I think outside of the top 4 we get into shades of grey. Crosby, ovechkin, eventually mcdavid. They’re all there depending on what you value, goals, will, speed. They all have a defining trait it’s really just a choice like a starter in pokemon

 

[Chet Manley]

Do wingers typically have more hits than centres? As a RW I always thought of forecheck/hitting as a duty of the position. But maybe that doesn't translate to NHL stars.

 

[Zuluss]

what is the next reachable milestone

Ovechkin is 1 goal away from becoming #1 all-time in 1st goals of the game (Jagr has 135 such goals, Ovechkin 134).
Ovechkin is also 2-3 goals away from most road goals ever.

FWIW, with today's assist Ovechkin tied Peter Forsberg in career assists.

 

[YippieKaey]

Do wingers typically have more hits than centres? As a RW I always thought of forecheck/hitting as a duty of the position. But maybe that doesn't translate to NHL stars.

Ovi plays LW though, and not only does he lead all players in goals with a margin of over 200 goals, he is also second (i think) in hits amongst ALL players since entering the league.

 

[george14]

My guess would be yes as off the top of my head Buyck had 40 goals at age 37, Selanne had a partial season at that age.

Gordie Howe had a expansion bump at ages 39 and 40 but is easily within range for ages 37 and 38.

Shanahan had 40 at 37.

 

[pezpunk]

Ovechkin has more hits than the next four best goal scorers COMBINED. On top of that, he's proved one of the most reliably durable players in the league as well, which is truly remarkable considering his style of play.

One of the most fun players to watch ever.

 

[gtrower]

What would be even wilder is throwing up career games missed due to injury on that graphic. Ovi defies all logic.

 

[Randyne]

More wild stats:
Ovechkin scored 56 goals more than total goals scored by Sid and Malkin which weren't assisted to each other.
(Sid assisted 28.8% of Malkin goals; Malkin assisted 21.4% of Sid goals)

 

[Toby91ca]

More wild stats:
Ovechkin scored 56 goals more than total goals scored by Sid and Malkin which weren't assisted to each other.
(Sid assisted 28.8% of Malkin goals; Malkin assisted 21.4% of Sid goals)

Wild stat? Why? More like a weird way to come up with a stat…maybe we remove Ovi’s goals assisted by Backstrom? Not sure why we would even look at something like this

 

[Randyne]

maybe we remove Ovi’s goals assisted by Backstrom?

Assisted by his linemate? Why? It's really weird. Malkin is not Sid's linemate.
Unfortunely Sid never created goalscoring linemate which could enter at least to top 100 since 2005.
He needed help from a generational player from another line to reach those numbers.

 

[TJHKY]