Bear of Bad News
"The Worst Guy on the Site" - user feedback
- Sep 27, 2005
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I'm an older guy and not into memes so what does that even mean?
Rein this diversion in, please.
I'm an older guy and not into memes so what does that even mean?
what about Gretzky? or did Gretzky not break the franchise goal record?To quote myself from another thread, here's the progression of the franchise goals record going over the past century:
Date Player Goals Days Years World events (approximate) 18-Feb-22 Cy Denneny 246 4,376 11.99 USSR formed, Mussolini in power 11-Feb-34 Howie Morenz 247 1,078 2.95 Great Depression, Hitler in power 24-Jan-37 Aurel Joliat 258 5,093 13.95 Chamberlain PM of UK, Japan invades China, prelude to WWII 04-Jan-51 Maurice Richard 270 4,693 12.86 Start of Korean war, Queen Elizabeth soon becomes monarch 10-Nov-63 Gordie Howe 545 21,545 59.03 MLK speech, The Beatles' first album, JFK killed, Vietnam war 05-Nov-22 Alex Ovechkin 787 ??? ??? COVID-19 pandemic winding down, death of Queen Elizabeth
When Howe set the record, man hadn't yet landed on the moon.
Wayne was over 200 goals short. Top four are Ov, the recently made #2 Howe, Yzerman and Mario in the 690s.what about Gretzky? or did Gretzky not break the franchise goal record?
That's one of the relatively few records Gretzky doesn't have:what about Gretzky? or did Gretzky not break the franchise goal record?
Alex Ovechkin | 788+ | Capitals |
Gordie Howe | 786 | Red Wings |
Steve Yzerman | 692 | Red Wings |
Mario Lemieux | 690 | Penguins |
Joe Sakic | 625 | Avalanche (Nordiques) |
Bobby Hull | 604 | Blackhawks |
Wayne Gretzky | 583 | Oilers |
Mike Bossy | 573 | Islanders |
Mike Modano | 557 | Stars (North Stars) |
Luc Robitaille | 557 | Kings |
Marcel Dionne | 550 | Kings |
Johnny Bucyk | 545 | Bruins |
Maurice Richard | 544 | Canadiens |
Stan Mikita | 541 | Blackhawks |
Brett Hull | 527 | Blues |
Jarome Iginla | 525 | Flames |
Sidney Crosby | 523+ | Penguins |
Patrick Marleau | 522 | Sharks |
Guy LaFleur | 518 | Canadiens |
Gilbert Perreault | 512 | Sabres |
Jean Beliveau | 507 | Canadiens |
Bryan Trottier | 500 | Islanders |
Yeah, I don't believe you. Considering how much time and energy you spend bashing Ovie, seemingly every time he's discussed on this forum, you seem pretty obsessed.
Maybe it's time to find a new hobby if a professional athlete bothers you so much.
He's 37, he already had the best goal scoring season for a 36 year old.Seems inevitable that he passes Howe this year. Is he still on pace for the best goal scoring season by a 36 year old?
Obviously I meant 37.He's 37, he already had the best goal scoring season for a 36 year old.
Obviously I meant 37.
I see this as directly supporting my argument that Ovi is Hull 2.0, yet it feels like you posted this to try to own my argument with stats or something.
Those stats show Ovi as a dominant goal scorer with limited playmaking outside of creating his own chances (which I 100% acknowledge is at the highest level). The most important stat in there is that Ovi was Top 10 for assists only three times in his career. So was Taylor Hall I think. (I don't know, I'd have to look, but that's the type of player that's lower Top 10 a few times in his career.)
Ovi is one of about a dozen players that will end his career with more goals than assists.
The list looks like this in terms of top goals to assists ratios:
Bondra: 1.3
Richard: 1.29
Ovi: 1.24
Bure: 1.18
Brett Hull: 1.14
So how is it not fair to say that Ovi is a better version of Brett Hull? Who is a better 2.0 version of?
I put their stat lines together, can you tell me which is which without names? (Obviously you can because Ovi passed him for goals, but I'm making a point)
View attachment 604927
Like I said, I don't disagree, I'm probably slighting Hull more than I should, but I'm giving him the treatment a lot of people give Ovechkin now.....standing there and one-timing it from the faceoff circle. There is some truth to that now about Ovi and Hull....just can't remember enough of Hull's game, but I do know for sure, he was never a good skater, never made the plays that Ovechkin used to make....again, shouldn't say never as most of what I saw of Hull was just highlights, never played for a team I watched that much.
The highlighted part, is that really true of Ovechkin though? Spent 5-8 years routinely skating end to end and scoring? I've watched a lot of his games, but definitely not most of them, so I'm actually asking curiously as I don't remember seeing many of that in highlights.....he certainly scored some highlight reel goals, but don't think that bolded part was a big part of his game.
Yes, but the "rule" you suggest isn't really the rule either. I'm a huge math and stats guy myself, but you can only take such analysis so far....you really need to watch the games at some point
So let me get this straight, if it's not really thread related but boosts Ovi then it's all good but if one presents actuals stats which can be confirmed by the eye test showing something that isn't 100% Ovi positive then it's off thread topic?
But then again you seem to have a history of being very selective in evaluating this particular player, the whole picture gives context.
Ovi has had a great run and is still an elite opportunist goal scorer but the sun is clearly setting on him and that stats (+/-) and offensive zone starts to go along with once again premium PP TOI are part of the landscape and to cast shade on them serves exactly what purpose.
Oh I know if it doesn't show Ovi in a 100% absolutely favorable light then we must dismiss it right?
I’ve grown to love ovechkin as I’ve gotten older, but I think outside of the top 4 we get into shades of grey. Crosby, ovechkin, eventually mcdavid. They’re all there depending on what you value, goals, will, speed. They all have a defining trait it’s really just a choice like a starter in pokemonA better version of Brett Hull plus leading the league in hits since they started counting can be conceptualized as a top 5 player all time.
what is the next reachable milestone
Do wingers typically have more hits than centres? As a RW I always thought of forecheck/hitting as a duty of the position. But maybe that doesn't translate to NHL stars.
Shanahan had 40 at 37.My guess would be yes as off the top of my head Buyck had 40 goals at age 37, Selanne had a partial season at that age.
Gordie Howe had a expansion bump at ages 39 and 40 but is easily within range for ages 37 and 38.
Wild stat? Why? More like a weird way to come up with a stat…maybe we remove Ovi’s goals assisted by Backstrom? Not sure why we would even look at something like thisMore wild stats:
Ovechkin scored 56 goals more than total goals scored by Sid and Malkin which weren't assisted to each other.
(Sid assisted 28.8% of Malkin goals; Malkin assisted 21.4% of Sid goals)
Assisted by his linemate? Why? It's really weird. Malkin is not Sid's linemate.maybe we remove Ovi’s goals assisted by Backstrom?