Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[YippieKaey]

Ov will likely end up somewhere around top 40-50 all time in assists so the whole "one-dimensional" thing is just stupid. It's like saying Chris Pronger was only a mean bastard. He was, and that was the most noticeable and rememberable part of his game, but he was good at almost all aspects of the game. Ovi is lacking a bit on the defensive part of the ice, because that's not his role. But making him sacrifice the skill he is 100/100 in to make him do things he's like 50-60/100 in is just poor coaching. No one would do that. As evidenced by the fact that no one really has done that.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

782 goals, 633 career assists. very balanced.

 

[Fallschirmyager]

They have flip flopped, notably when Crosby has ran into injuries. The difference in games played makes this expected, not an oddity. The fact that Crosby has maintained point pace with OV throughout their careers despite playing in 166 less games shows he has always been the superior playmaker.

We can prop OV up in this thread without tearing Crosby down folks. OVs accomplishments are impressive enough to stand on their own.

Explain how stating a simple fact that Crosby's injury history has kept his point production down is "tearing him down"?

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Ovechkin's selfish play for majority of this career just throwing in goals isnt enough to get a top 5 maybe top 10.
took the guy like 12-13 years to figure it out before that it was just scoring goals and he doesnt even have to work hard for it he can literally post up and keep firing them. goals and cool and all but there's a major part of the game missing. will never place above Crosby imo

Everyone is laughing at you.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

so if what he has done is selfish and unimportant and clearly lacking a huge part of the game over his career why wouldnt other teams designate one guy to do those things. You say he just posts up and puts in goals as though every team in the league has a guy that could do that but that guy is off doing noble things. Ovi is likely going to break the unbreakable record or thats what it used to be called before people realize he might come close. THe last 5 years have seen his critics move the goal posts on that as well. Only on HFBoards can goal scoring being a negative thing. For Ovi being selfish he will likely finish his career top 50 all time in assists. Not bad for a non playmaking turret. He will also likely finish close to number 1 in hits.

Im not trying to say everything about Ovechkin is negative guys incredible but talk is of him in the top 5 of all time.
so yeah gotta be harder on him and the majority of his career he never played a 2 way game. and to me because of that even if he beats the goal record it wont bump him up into the top 5 but he should be in the top 10.... maybe
he needs to lead his team to another cup
more to the game then scoring goals and he learned that far too late into his career imo

 

[Arthur Morgan]

You could have just began your post with "I don't watch the games."

Would have the same effect.

took him like 13 years to develop a 2way game. I considered his offensive only style very selfish.
once he started to care about the rest of the game he got even better and he finally won the Stanley Cup

Everyone is laughing at you.

Right on, love the attention keep it coming.
a like is a like

 

[Caps8112]

Im not trying to say everything about Ovechkin is negative guys incredible but talk is of him in the top 5 of all time.
so yeah gotta be harder on him and the majority of his career he never played a 2 way game. and to me because of that even if he beats the goal record it wont bump him up into the top 5 but he should be in the top 10.... maybe
he needs to lead his team to another cup
more to the game then scoring goals and he learned that far too late into his career imo

Yea I don't know about top 5 for ovi but I also don't think crosby is top 5 either. The 4 will likely always be, but after that there are quite a few players that all had incredible careers. Imo breaking the goal record would be something special that separates him from that pack but everyone else has different opinions after the top 4.

 

[Caps8112]

took him like 13 years to develop a 2way game. I considered his offensive only style very selfish.
once he started to care about the rest of the game he got even better and he finally won the Stanley Cup


Right on, love the attention keep it coming.
a like is a like

Agree and disagree with this. I believe what you wrote but it also was not his choice. He did what the coaches asked. Wasn't till they finally hired a defensive minded coach like trotz that he had ovi dig in with the rest. Boudreau was an all offense coach. In hunters short time he would have started a team of 12 Dave steckels because he only believes in grinding it out, dump and chase which eventually couldn't beat a more talented rangers team. Oates should not have been a coach.

 

[Dingo]

Ov will likely end up somewhere around top 40-50 all time in assists so the whole "one-dimensional" thing is just stupid. It's like saying Chris Pronger was only a mean bastard. He was, and that was the most noticeable and rememberable part of his game, but he was good at almost all aspects of the game. Ovi is lacking a bit on the defensive part of the ice, because that's not his role. But making him sacrifice the skill he is 100/100 in to make him do things he's like 50-60/100 in is just poor coaching. No one would do that. As evidenced by the fact that no one really has done that.

pretty sure Dale Hunter had him killing pps and blocking shots. Wasnt that his truly bad 65ish point season?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yea I don't know about top 5 for ovi but I also don't think crosby is top 5 either. The 4 will likely always be, but after that there are quite a few players that all had incredible careers. Imo breaking the goal record would be something special that separates him from that pack but everyone else has different opinions after the top 4.

the problem with the 5th spot u can find enough reason for multiple players to own it
it will be a pretty awesome feat for him but I dont think its enough to just jump him 5th overall.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Agree and disagree with this. I believe what you wrote but it also was not his choice. He did what the coaches asked. Wasn't till they finally hired a defensive minded coach like trotz that he had ovi dig in with the rest. Boudreau was an all offense coach. In hunters short time he would have started a team of 12 Dave steckels because he only believes in grinding it out, dump and chase which eventually couldn't beat a more talented rangers team. Oates should not have been a coach.

hmmm you know I never really took any of that into consideration, I do like how Ovechkin eventually figured it out and developed that 2way game and without it Im not sure they would have won in 2018.
either way Ovechkin is a talent we may never see again in the NHL. where he ranks in the end wont change anything because for the most part all these rankings are opinionated. some people have Orr as the greatest to ever play, others Gretzky, Lemieux, McDavid
its fun to talk about it

 

[Devil Dancer]

Im not trying to say everything about Ovechkin is negative guys incredible but talk is of him in the top 5 of all time.
so yeah gotta be harder on him and the majority of his career he never played a 2 way game. and to me because of that even if he beats the goal record it wont bump him up into the top 5 but he should be in the top 10.... maybe
he needs to lead his team to another cup
more to the game then scoring goals and he learned that far too late into his career imo

You know he had a higher assist/goal ratio earlier in his career, right?

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

the problem with the 5th spot u can find enough reason for multiple players to own it
it will be a pretty awesome feat for him but I dont think its enough to just jump him 5th overall.

Honestly after Gretzky and Orr you could make your own list, those are the only non debatable ones. Hasek and Lidstrom can be argued above Mario or Howe and I wouldn’t bat an eye. People get too caught up on this ‘big 4’ on these boards.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

You know he had a higher assist/goal ratio earlier in his career, right?

I was more talking about his overall defensive play, took him a long time to improve in that area and shortly after they won a cup
in his early years it was almost like he thought he could just out score his teams defensive issues.

 

[YippieKaey]

pretty sure Dale Hunter had him killing pps and blocking shots. Wasnt that his truly bad 65ish point season?

True. He's still blocking shots but Ovi on the PK was just a bad idea, which is why they went back to him outscoring everyone.

 

[Dingo]

True. He's still blocking shots but Ovi on the PK was just a bad idea, which is why they went back to him outscoring everyone.

my favourite players are the guys who ‘do it all’

there is a ton of respect due from teammates. its a great example of leadership.

But, I guarantee that every teammate wants to win, and many guys can kill penalties as well or better than Ovechkin, and nobody can score like him. I know which assignement id want for him if i were his teammate.

It took me a long time in my life to see things this way, and get over the ‘a leader should dig the trenches’ mentality.

The last sport I played was rugby. Just a local club. Had a guy on it who went on to play nationally. Faster, tougher, bigger than me. He could have rucked and dug the ball out every bit as good as me, and very likely quite a bit better….why on earth would i want that when i could be giving it to him?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Honestly after Gretzky and Orr you could make your own list, those are the only non debatable ones. Hasek and Lidstrom can be argued above Mario or Howe and I wouldn’t bat an eye. People get too caught up on this ‘big 4’ on these boards.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Lidstrom and Hasek have a bigger impact on a game then Mario…come at me.

 

[TheNumber4]

Lidstrom and Hasek have a bigger impact on a game then Mario…come at me.

Prime Mario? Not a chance. Even Cancer’d Mario is debatable.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Prime Mario? Not a chance. Even Cancer’d Mario is debatable.

 

[TheNumber4]

Well that proves nothing.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Well that proves nothing.

A video showing Hasek besting Lemieux in his prime, in a game where Hasek had a bigger impact on winning? Okay.

That was Lemieux’s best goal scoring year btw. He had troubles beating Hasek in his prime, just like everyone else.

 

[TheNumber4]

A video showing Hasek besting Lemieux in his prime, in a game where Hasek had a bigger impact on winning? Okay.

That was Lemieux’s best goal scoring year btw. He had troubles beating Hasek in his prime, just like everyone else.

It’s not even a 1 game sample size. It’s a 1 play sample size your using to define entire careers.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

It’s not even a 1 game sample size. It’s a 1 play sample size you’re using to define entire careers.

Their careers are already defined, as both have since retired and you can peruse their accomplishments with a simple google search. This thread isn’t meant to rehash their careers.

My point still stands. Mario’s career and accomplishments aren’t impressive enough to keep OV out of a conversation of being better than him. I personally take 2008 OV over any version of Mario for a cup run.

 

[TheNumber4]

Their careers are already defined, as both have since retired and you can peruse their accomplishments with a simple google search. This thread isn’t meant to rehash their careers.

My point still stands. Mario’s career and accomplishments aren’t impressive enough to keep OV out of a conversation of being better than him.

Mario >>> Ovie

Not even close