Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Regal]

What is the +/- effect on both sides in EN situation—same as ES?

Yup

 

[Randyne]

What is the +/- effect on both sides in EN situation—same as ES?

Same.

 

[BallardEra]

It’s amazing to me that he might actually do it this season. Without the two lockouts and COVID season he’d be flirting with 1000 at this point

COVID seasons. Both were impacted by it and shortened.

 

[pi314]

All goals count the same.
No matter if you win by PP goal. It's still a win.
~1/5 of all NHL goals scored on the PP.
1/5 is a huge part of the game.

And what matters is how many goals MORE than the other team you score.

A guy can score 100 goals and if it leads to 101 against they are still a loser.

You guys want to ignore what a black hole of defense he is.

The worst defensive player I have seen in my lifetime.

 

[Sun God Nika]

And what matters is how many goals MORE than the other team you score.

A guy can score 100 goals and if it leads to 101 against they are still a loser.

You guys want to ignore what a black hole of defense he is.

The worst defensive player I have seen in my lifetime.

Lol he won a cup.

 

[Randyne]

And what matters is how many goals MORE than the other team you score.

A guy can score 100 goals and if it leads to 101 against they are still a loser.

WSH
P%=.605; 3 PT + 1 SC in 20 years (with Ovi P%=.611; w/o Ovi P%=.475)
P%=.489; 0 PT + 0 SC in 30 years before.

You guys want to ignore what a black hole of defense he is.
The worst defensive player I have seen in my lifetime.

+/- is a trash stat. Ovi is not running away from minuses to the bench like Sid. Malkin is collecting Sid's minuses.

 

[stephenball]

And what matters is how many goals MORE than the other team you score.

A guy can score 100 goals and if it leads to 101 against they are still a loser.

You guys want to ignore what a black hole of defense he is.

The worst defensive player I have seen in my lifetime.

Nobody is ever going to say Ovechkin should be a Selke candidate. It’s all about if you’re better off with a player on the ice. Players who aren’t as good defensively need to compensate by being more dangerous offensively. Guys like Ovechkin aren’t there to try to hold off the opponent in the last seconds when you’re up by one goal, they’re there to score more so you aren’t in a position to protect a one goal lead.

 

[Demandedace]

And what matters is how many goals MORE than the other team you score.

A guy can score 100 goals and if it leads to 101 against they are still a loser.

You guys want to ignore what a black hole of defense he is.

The worst defensive player I have seen in my lifetime.

Lol if you honestly believe he is the worst defensive player of your lifetime then you have watched very little hockey. Saying something as ridiculous as this really calls into question any credibility you may have had - how do you not realize this?

 

[Random schmoe]

You would think someone whose username is a famous mathematical constant would have a better idea of how to back up a hypotheses with fact, or at least create a decent argument aside from "this one time about 16 years ago a coach implied he was something less than good without the puck therefore my statements about his entire career are right."


Hey look, just last week Ovechkin really gave a ton of effort on a back check, therefore he's never been a floater or lazy in his career, because one example means that, right?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852853806897287367

 

[LuGBuG]

And what matters is how many goals MORE than the other team you score.

A guy can score 100 goals and if it leads to 101 against they are still a loser.

You guys want to ignore what a black hole of defense he is.

The worst defensive player I have seen in my lifetime.

Lol I can’t stand Ovie. I also can’t imagine trying to argue this much about a guy who is going to become the all time goals leader. Just put your efforts into a different thread bud.

WSH
P%=.605; 3 PT + 1 SC in 20 years (with Ovi P%=.611; w/o Ovi P%=.475)
P%=.489; 0 PT + 0 SC in 30 years before.



+/- is a trash stat. Ovi is not running away from minuses to the bench like Sid. Malkin is collecting Sid's minuses.

Equally moronic thinking Sid is running away from minuses. Get a grip pal.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Age x seasons - Ovi’s ranks:
20 = 5th
22 = 4th
23 = 8th
28 = 10th
29 = 9th
30 = 6th
32 = 3rd
33 = 2nd
34 = 1st (in 68gp)
36 = 1st
37 = 1st (in 72gp)
38 = 2nd
39 = Needs 40 for 1st or 30 for 2nd

All this is despite most people on the list at each age bracket being in much higher scoring eras when you look at it. Incredible.

Thanks for posting this. I'm pretty sure I posted this 1-2 years ago, but I can't find it.

I wonder how much stronger he'd look, if this were adjusted for era.

 

[Soundwave]

Very impressive to be doing this at age 39.

 

[Hanji]

I was at the 2005 WJC and there was quite a bit of disapproval of Ovechkin. The place was flooded with Canadian fans and many of these people thought Ovechkin didn't play the "right way". He was flashy, wore a tinted visor and celebrated goals like crazy.

When he was injured in the final a lot of them were laughing and saying he'd last 1 season in the almighty NHL if he continued with his "disrespectful" celebrations and wrecking-ball style.

And here we are on the verge of him breaking Gretzky's record.
It always puts a smile on my face remembering that game and the sentiments of those fans.

 

[BallardEra]

He's only 41 away, is there anyone that truly thinks he won't get there over 2 seasons? He still got 31 this year. It would take a fall of epic proportions at this point.

This was your last post on these forums from last May.

Hope all is well!

I know you are cheering against Ovie getting there but at least you are respectful and a good poster on these boards!

 

[Randyne]

Equally moronic thinking Sid is running away from minuses. Get a grip pal.

Moronic thinking that's an AI gifs or something. Get your minuses and then go to the bench.
Sidfans were happy to post controller disconneted gif for so many years, where exhausted Ovi just didn't want to frame his teammates.

update.
I did some research:
Malkin GP 1161; +53
GP w/o Sid =148; +25
GP with Sid =1013; +28
So if Sid wouldn't run away from minuses, then Malkin's +/- would be +196 (25/148*1161)
Also Sid's career +/- would be only +70 (213-(196-53)). And maybe lower because other teammates were not counted.
So Malkin is collecting Sid's minuses.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

RS
GF 2265 - GA 1287
PO
GF 209 - GA 113
+1074 on ice goal differential

I don't want to criticize Ovechkin, in a thread that's intended for celebrating his achievements (which, for the record, I've been doing). But this really isn't a good argument. (In any case, this isn't a criticism of Ovechkin - just this particular argument).

It's completely misleading to look at total goals for minus totals goals against. Goal differentials vary widely by situation. This stat, by its very design, will highlight players who make significant contributions on the powerplay (there's no question Ovechkin does this) while playing very little on the penalty kill (which is also true, but it doesn't exactly seem like something that should be celebrated).

There are 22 players who have a gross goal differential of +800 over the course of their career (regular season only). All of them have had long careers. All of them played extensively on the powerplay (all but one of those players, Larry Robinson, had >30% of their career TGF while on the powerplay). Most of them have got very little ice time on the penalty kill (Ovechkin, Crosby, Jagr, Selanne, Lafleur, Robitaille, Housley, Andreychuk, Dionne, etc).

To illustrate the point further - many of the greatest two-way players of all-time look surprisingly disappointing according to this metric, because they were entrusted with significant PK duties (which causes them to bleed goals against). Bobby Clarke, Sergei Fedorov, Mike Modano, Jari Kurri and Patrice Bergeron (all outstanding two-way players) are only around +600, give or take. (Some big names like Mark Messier, Chris Chelios, Anze Kopitar, Scott Stevens, and Chris Pronger are even lower, each under +400). In each of these cases, their strong defensive play resulted in them getting significant ice time on the penalty kill, which tanked their career goal differential. Ironically, the strength of their two-way play makes them look worse!

There are plenty of ways to celebrate what Ovechkin has been doing. But this metric really doesn't make sense, and I'm not sure if someone advocating for #8 should be using a stat that makes him look similar to PP specialists like Housley, Andreychuk and Robitaille.

 

[Randyne]

This stat, by its very design, will highlight players who make significant contributions on the powerplay (there's no question Ovechkin does this) while playing very little on the penalty kill (which is also true, but it doesn't exactly seem like something that should be celebrated).

Ovechkin being on PP is not a coincidence. He turns 5v4 to 4v3 when opponents cover him separately. And he is the all-time leader by PP goals. WSH become the deadliest team on the PP for many years.
If everyone was like him, he wouldn't be top 9 forward by TGF all-time.
He is not a PKer, just like many other stars too. No one wants their stars to be injured by blocking shots. It would hurt their teams.

 

[Sol]

Woah Ovi vs Sid the kid debates in 2024? Nostalgia

 

[BallardEra]

If his slow start was just that and not a sign of decline, he could still get to 30 this year (23 in 48 games) and then 43 next year he'd have the record with 1 more year on his contract still. Not going to count him out. Alex Ovechkin, Rafael Nadal, these are the types of guys who you should absolutely never ever count out. Wouldn't surprise me to see Ovi come back next year and score 50 even with how poorly he has produced this year so far.

I found our time traveller.

This was posted on December 30, 2023 when Ovechkin had 7 goals after his first 34 games.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The worst defensive player I have seen in my lifetime.

Then I’d say you’re not that old, if that is the worst you’ve seen.
Or it’s just hyperbole.

 

[HF007]

Woah Ovi vs Sid the kid debates in 2024? Nostalgia

They never left

 

[Golden_Jet]

Lol if you honestly believe he is the worst defensive player of your lifetime then you have watched very little hockey. Saying something as ridiculous as this really calls into question any credibility you may have had - how do you not realize this?

poster is a Penguins fan. Now it makes sense .

Whereas before made zero sense.

 

[Jets4Life]

Just a remarkable stat with Bossy. He scored 50 or more in 9 straight seasons!

Not that remarkable, considering he played from 1977-87, which was by far, the highest era in NHL history. If Ovechkin played from 1977-97, he likely would have hit 50 goals in at least 14 of those seasons, and probably broke Gretzky's goal scoring season record.

 

[Warden of the North]

Unreal start to the season.

 

[BallardEra]

Looked into it, poster is a sour Penguins fan. Now it makes sense .

Whereas before made zero sense.

A lot of them used to say that the Caps existed only to get Ovechkin to 895.

Funny how the Pens now main mission is to keep Crosby's points per game streak going until his contract is up.