RD Axel Sandin Pellikka - Skellefteå, SHL (2023, 17th, DET)

[Petes2424]

The developmental curves of Willander and ASP are fun to follow. Obviously a few years away from finding out what was the best path. Willander learning the NA game but playing against weak competition in the aggregate. ASP playing against top non-NHL competition and dominating but obviously not learning the NA game.

Unfortunately the two kids are always going to be compared because the Canucks are viewed (unfairly btw) as having “passed on ASP” and drafted the “bigger kid”, who was the “late riser”, in the middle of a “growth spurt.” Who was rising on more than a few draft boards.

Not all though, which is an interesting story for another day…

The inferiority complex in the Vancouver hockey media doesn’t help with the inevitable comparisons we’ve seen over the last 18 months.. A media who constantly props up the team’s prospects, as if they work for the team, and if that means taking shots at other kids like ASP in comparison, they’ve no problems doing that as well.

Unfortunately it leads to fans being confused when they see a game like yesterday’s. They’ve been led to believe Willander is in the same ballpark as ASP, and other D prospects around the league, who’ve taken some pretty big steps over the last 12 months. This is a big tournament for Willander to make a statement like we seen a Cayden Price and Andrew Gibson make tonight.

Let’s be honest with ourselves though. The entire Willander/ASP rivalry thing, created in the VAN media is ridiculous to begin with.

ASP was likely NEVER in the Canucks plans. They never chose Willander over ASP. They chose him over whatever forwards, Bonk, Molyndyk, etc. As much as they needed a stud dman in their system, there was no way, they were ever drafting Sandin-Pellikka.

They simply couldn’t afford having their top 3 Dmen, all being of the smaller variety. Unfortunately that growth spurt Willinder was having his draft year, stopped in its tracks as well. It’s funny, most VAN fans have this strange assumption he’s like 6’3 210lbs. Not his reality at 6’1”, 180lbs.

Whatever the case today, on draft night, the Canucks looked at ASP as another small dman, they just couldn’t afford to take. So there was no reason to ever breakdown any comparisons between the two.

In a perfect world ASP would’ve already been off the board when the Canucks drafted Willinder. Just so the Canucks would never have to answer for passing on an elite player, if that’s how this all turns out. Or even on days like today, when it was very apparent there’s a pretty large gap between the two young dmen. There’s no talking around it at this point. We’ll see where things are in 4-5 years but Willinder is likely NEVER going to be much offensively, and for him to end up being an effective NHL Top 4 Dman, he’s gonna have to be more confident handling the puck, and obviously start putting on some weight and muscle.

That all said, whether Willinder ever becomes a great Top 4 dman, or ASP goes on to be Sergei Zubov on steroids, ASP was very likely, never in the cards for the Canucks.

It’s also why we’re never going to get honest opinions about Willinder’s development from the Vancouver media either. God forbid they ever admit he’s not on par with ASP. He’s still a good prospect though. He deserves his props but let’s also not pretend. Kids like ASP, Bonk, Molyndyk, Price, Gibson, etc, have all passed him up. Some pretty significantly. All drafted after him.

As for his game, it is funny you mention ASP and the NA Game. We were watching specifically that part of his game today, and seen nothing to suggest it’s even an afterthought at this point. The group I was watching with, all came to the same conclusion really. He’s played so many games on smaller ice, and his decision making is so quick and spot-on, it’s a non factor. We walked out very impressed with where he’s at.

Not sure how much he works with Kronwall and/or Fischer, but his game is very NHL influenced. As is Anton Johansson’s btw. Who at 20, is also very well coached as one of their other D prospects in Sweden. I know ASP has worked a lot with Pierre Johnson, a defensive coach in Sweden, but other than that, from everything I understand, most of his hockey sense came from his dad, and just his commitment to the game. He knew early on, if you can walk the blue line, it opens your game up considerably in the offensive zone.

Will he have an oops on an angle here and there? Probably. He’s 19. He thinks the game at such a high level though, it’ll be very minimal, if he has any issues at all. If he ends up playing with Simon Edvinsson as people think, the sky is gonna be the limit. He’s gonna have lots of ice to do his thing.

Detroit has to be very happy with where he’s at right now. Maybe they knew exactly how far he’s already developed and that’s why they didn’t go get Edvinsson a partner this year. I don’t care how good you are as a dman, it’s not everyday we see a kid dominate a game from the backend in this tournament. He did that in all phases today. As good as Schaefer and Gibson were tonight in Canada’s game, they didn’t dominate individually.

Unfortunately his expectations for the rest of this tournament just went through the roof. After watching how good Canada was tonight, it’s their tournament to lose. How good was Andrew Gibson and Matthew Schaefer btw? Just not sure Sweden has the horses to matchup with that squad. Even with 6 of their 7 Dmen being NHL draft picks already. A few unexpected Swedes are gonna have to step up and make a name for themselves. Willander and Lindstein are gonna have to take their overall game to a whole new level for Sweden to have a shot at this tournament. Some of their roster decisions still very perplexing, but for them to have any chance, Willander and Lindstein are gonna have to step up and perform like Canada’s kids did vs Finland. You’re gonna see teams concentrate on taking ASP out of games now, so the pressure is on Willander and Lindstein for sure.

 

[Pavels Dog]

People who have not watched ASP play much, may not realize one of his greatest attributes. He has the uncanny ability to shoot to a lane that is opening, rather than blasting a shot in an open lane. These are often wrist shots that viewers call soft goals. I believe his third goal yesterday was a good example.

Every goal kind of highlighted a different attribute of his offensive toolbox.

 

[Predatore]

Unfortunately his expectations for the rest of this tournament just went through the roof. After watching how good Canada was tonight, it’s their tournament to lose. How good was Andrew Gibson and Matthew Schaefer btw? Just not sure Sweden has the horses to matchup with that squad. Even with 6 of their 7 Dmen being NHL draft picks already.

Good post.

As for Sweden vs. Canada.... that goes without saying IMO.

Most likely only 2-3 Swedish players would even make the Canadian team (ASP, Willander and possibly one of Unger Sörum/Stenberg, Eklund). Same would probably apply to the U.S. squad.

But in a short international tournament, we do get upsets and and sometimes it only takes a lucky bounce or a goaltender with a superb game. Guess that is what makes it fun and still a bit unpredictable despite certain teams being a whole lot better on paper.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Unfortunately the two kids are always going to be compared because the Canucks are viewed (unfairly btw) as having “passed on ASP” and drafted the “bigger kid”, who was the “late riser”, in the middle of a “growth spurt.” Who was rising on more than a few draft boards.

Not all though, which is an interesting story for another day…

The inferiority complex in the Vancouver hockey media doesn’t help with the inevitable comparisons we’ve seen over the last 18 months.. A media who constantly props up the team’s prospects, as if they work for the team, and if that means taking shots at other kids like ASP in comparison, they’ve no problems doing that as well.

Unfortunately it leads to fans being confused when they see a game like yesterday’s. They’ve been led to believe Willander is in the same ballpark as ASP, and other D prospects around the league, who’ve taken some pretty big steps over the last 12 months. This is a big tournament for Willander to make a statement like we seen a Cayden Price and Andrew Gibson make tonight.

Let’s be honest with ourselves though. The entire Willander/ASP rivalry thing, created in the VAN media is ridiculous to begin with.

ASP was likely NEVER in the Canucks plans. They never chose Willander over ASP. They chose him over whatever forwards, Bonk, Molyndyk, etc. As much as they needed a stud dman in their system, there was no way, they were ever drafting Sandin-Pellikka.

They simply couldn’t afford having their top 3 Dmen, all being of the smaller variety. Unfortunately that growth spurt Willinder was having his draft year, stopped in its tracks as well. It’s funny, most VAN fans have this strange assumption he’s like 6’3 210lbs. Not his reality at 6’1”, 180lbs.

Whatever the case today, on draft night, the Canucks looked at ASP as another small dman, they just couldn’t afford to take. So there was no reason to ever breakdown any comparisons between the two.

In a perfect world ASP would’ve already been off the board when the Canucks drafted Willinder. Just so the Canucks would never have to answer for passing on an elite player, if that’s how this all turns out. Or even on days like today, when it was very apparent there’s a pretty large gap between the two young dmen. There’s no talking around it at this point. We’ll see where things are in 4-5 years but Willinder is likely NEVER going to be much offensively, and for him to end up being an effective NHL Top 4 Dman, he’s gonna have to be more confident handling the puck, and obviously start putting on some weight and muscle.

That all said, whether Willinder ever becomes a great Top 4 dman, or ASP goes on to be Sergei Zubov on steroids, ASP was very likely, never in the cards for the Canucks.

It’s also why we’re never going to get honest opinions about Willinder’s development from the Vancouver media either. God forbid they ever admit he’s not on par with ASP. He’s still a good prospect though. He deserves his props but let’s also not pretend. Kids like ASP, Bonk, Molyndyk, Price, Gibson, etc, have all passed him up. Some pretty significantly. All drafted after him.

As for his game, it is funny you mention ASP and the NA Game. We were watching specifically that part of his game today, and seen nothing to suggest it’s even an afterthought at this point. The group I was watching with, all came to the same conclusion really. He’s played so many games on smaller ice, and his decision making is so quick and spot-on, it’s a non factor. We walked out very impressed with where he’s at.

Not sure how much he works with Kronwall and/or Fischer, but his game is very NHL influenced. As is Anton Johansson’s btw. Who at 20, is also very well coached as one of their other D prospects in Sweden. I know ASP has worked a lot with Pierre Johnson, a defensive coach in Sweden, but other than that, from everything I understand, most of his hockey sense came from his dad, and just his commitment to the game. He knew early on, if you can walk the blue line, it opens your game up considerably in the offensive zone.

Will he have an oops on an angle here and there? Probably. He’s 19. He thinks the game at such a high level though, it’ll be very minimal, if he has any issues at all. If he ends up playing with Simon Edvinsson as people think, the sky is gonna be the limit. He’s gonna have lots of ice to do his thing.

Detroit has to be very happy with where he’s at right now. Maybe they knew exactly how far he’s already developed and that’s why they didn’t go get Edvinsson a partner this year. I don’t care how good you are as a dman, it’s not everyday we see a kid dominate a game from the backend in this tournament. He did that in all phases today. As good as Schaefer and Gibson were tonight in Canada’s game, they didn’t dominate individually.

Unfortunately his expectations for the rest of this tournament just went through the roof. After watching how good Canada was tonight, it’s their tournament to lose. How good was Andrew Gibson and Matthew Schaefer btw? Just not sure Sweden has the horses to matchup with that squad. Even with 6 of their 7 Dmen being NHL draft picks already. A few unexpected Swedes are gonna have to step up and make a name for themselves. Willander and Lindstein are gonna have to take their overall game to a whole new level for Sweden to have a shot at this tournament. Some of their roster decisions still very perplexing, but for them to have any chance, Willander and Lindstein are gonna have to step up and perform like Canada’s kids did vs Finland. You’re gonna see teams concentrate on taking ASP out of games now, so the pressure is on Willander and Lindstein for sure.

This post is exactly why the boards are full of yzerplan threads and Detroit bashing. Insanity. Sergei Zubov on steroids

 

[wingerdinger]

This post is exactly why the boards are full of yzerplan threads and Detroit bashing. Insanity. Sergei Zubov on steroids

Seethe harder. If people are going to tard rage over hyperbole like Zubov on steroids than they need to get a life.

People on forums are always going to express themselves in colourful ways.

Truth is people are still butthurt over the wings success while Yzerman was captain. And still havent found a healthy way to deal with there issues.

 

[newfy]

This post is exactly why the boards are full of yzerplan threads and Detroit bashing. Insanity. Sergei Zubov on steroids

No, people like you that lack the ability to read are why the boards are like that. I'll explain it to you since it was probably too many words all together for you to take out the main point.

He isn't saying ASP is going to become Zubov on steroids, he's exaggerating a point that even if he becomes that good, he wasn't going to be drafted by Vancouver in that spot due to the makeup of their blue line and Willander looking like he fit that group better at draft time.

 

[SCD]

But than again, Zubov on steroids would be a wonderful thing!

 

[theVladiator]

ASP was likely NEVER in the Canucks plans. They never chose Willander over ASP. They chose him over whatever forwards, Bonk, Molyndyk, etc. As much as they needed a stud dman in their system, there was no way, they were ever drafting Sandin-Pellikka.
...

Whatever the case today, on draft night, the Canucks looked at ASP as another small dman, they just couldn’t afford to take. So there was no reason to ever breakdown any comparisons between the two.
...

That all said, whether Willinder ever becomes a great Top 4 dman, or ASP goes on to be Sergei Zubov on steroids, ASP was very likely, never in the cards for the Canucks.

I am not sure the exact reason why Canucks passed on ASP should preclude any discussion of the topic. So, if it was them thinking ASP is too small (or too small for the 'Nucks?), it's perfectly ok to ask "so, is he STILL too small for you today?". Choices are questioned in hindsight, and postures such as "we size discriminate" or "we do not do BPA" don't really provide immunity against such hindsight criticism.

A few more angles for Willander vs ASP:

• which one really was the top Swedish D available
• Willander being a bit of a reach from consensus (Willander was ranked 20 by Bobby Mac, and ASP 14)
• the pick Detroit used to get ASP was acquired a few months before the draft from VAN.

That said, there isn't any particular reason to rub this in specifically Vancouver's face. Quite a few more teams passed on ASP for him to be available at 17. I think it's safe to say that nobody had expected for him to turn out quite the way he seems to be trending.

 

[sting101]

Unfortunately the two kids are always going to be compared because the Canucks are viewed (unfairly btw) as having “passed on ASP” and drafted the “bigger kid”, who was the “late riser”, in the middle of a “growth spurt.” Who was rising on more than a few draft boards.

Not all though, which is an interesting story for another day…

The inferiority complex in the Vancouver hockey media doesn’t help with the inevitable comparisons we’ve seen over the last 18 months.. A media who constantly props up the team’s prospects, as if they work for the team, and if that means taking shots at other kids like ASP in comparison, they’ve no problems doing that as well.

Unfortunately it leads to fans being confused when they see a game like yesterday’s. They’ve been led to believe Willander is in the same ballpark as ASP, and other D prospects around the league, who’ve taken some pretty big steps over the last 12 months. This is a big tournament for Willander to make a statement like we seen a Cayden Price and Andrew Gibson make tonight.

Let’s be honest with ourselves though. The entire Willander/ASP rivalry thing, created in the VAN media is ridiculous to begin with.

ASP was likely NEVER in the Canucks plans. They never chose Willander over ASP. They chose him over whatever forwards, Bonk, Molyndyk, etc. As much as they needed a stud dman in their system, there was no way, they were ever drafting Sandin-Pellikka.

They simply couldn’t afford having their top 3 Dmen, all being of the smaller variety. Unfortunately that growth spurt Willinder was having his draft year, stopped in its tracks as well. It’s funny, most VAN fans have this strange assumption he’s like 6’3 210lbs. Not his reality at 6’1”, 180lbs.

Whatever the case today, on draft night, the Canucks looked at ASP as another small dman, they just couldn’t afford to take. So there was no reason to ever breakdown any comparisons between the two.

In a perfect world ASP would’ve already been off the board when the Canucks drafted Willinder. Just so the Canucks would never have to answer for passing on an elite player, if that’s how this all turns out. Or even on days like today, when it was very apparent there’s a pretty large gap between the two young dmen. There’s no talking around it at this point. We’ll see where things are in 4-5 years but Willinder is likely NEVER going to be much offensively, and for him to end up being an effective NHL Top 4 Dman, he’s gonna have to be more confident handling the puck, and obviously start putting on some weight and muscle.

That all said, whether Willinder ever becomes a great Top 4 dman, or ASP goes on to be Sergei Zubov on steroids, ASP was very likely, never in the cards for the Canucks.

It’s also why we’re never going to get honest opinions about Willinder’s development from the Vancouver media either. God forbid they ever admit he’s not on par with ASP. He’s still a good prospect though. He deserves his props but let’s also not pretend. Kids like ASP, Bonk, Molyndyk, Price, Gibson, etc, have all passed him up. Some pretty significantly. All drafted after him.

As for his game, it is funny you mention ASP and the NA Game. We were watching specifically that part of his game today, and seen nothing to suggest it’s even an afterthought at this point. The group I was watching with, all came to the same conclusion really. He’s played so many games on smaller ice, and his decision making is so quick and spot-on, it’s a non factor. We walked out very impressed with where he’s at.

Not sure how much he works with Kronwall and/or Fischer, but his game is very NHL influenced. As is Anton Johansson’s btw. Who at 20, is also very well coached as one of their other D prospects in Sweden. I know ASP has worked a lot with Pierre Johnson, a defensive coach in Sweden, but other than that, from everything I understand, most of his hockey sense came from his dad, and just his commitment to the game. He knew early on, if you can walk the blue line, it opens your game up considerably in the offensive zone.

Will he have an oops on an angle here and there? Probably. He’s 19. He thinks the game at such a high level though, it’ll be very minimal, if he has any issues at all. If he ends up playing with Simon Edvinsson as people think, the sky is gonna be the limit. He’s gonna have lots of ice to do his thing.

Detroit has to be very happy with where he’s at right now. Maybe they knew exactly how far he’s already developed and that’s why they didn’t go get Edvinsson a partner this year. I don’t care how good you are as a dman, it’s not everyday we see a kid dominate a game from the backend in this tournament. He did that in all phases today. As good as Schaefer and Gibson were tonight in Canada’s game, they didn’t dominate individually.

Unfortunately his expectations for the rest of this tournament just went through the roof. After watching how good Canada was tonight, it’s their tournament to lose. How good was Andrew Gibson and Matthew Schaefer btw? Just not sure Sweden has the horses to matchup with that squad. Even with 6 of their 7 Dmen being NHL draft picks already. A few unexpected Swedes are gonna have to step up and make a name for themselves. Willander and Lindstein are gonna have to take their overall game to a whole new level for Sweden to have a shot at this tournament. Some of their roster decisions still very perplexing, but for them to have any chance, Willander and Lindstein are gonna have to step up and perform like Canada’s kids did vs Finland. You’re gonna see teams concentrate on taking ASP out of games now, so the pressure is on Willander and Lindstein for sure.

Bizarre post?

You would think by now people would understand that differences in time space skill and physicality would leave open the fact that until they play against NHLers there are some unanswered questions. Most haven't changed much since the draft. Taking too much from a single junior game is poor judgement

"The inferiority complex in the Vancouver hockey media doesn’t help with the inevitable comparisons we’ve seen over the last 18 months.. A media who constantly props up the team’s prospects, as if they work for the team, and if that means taking shots at other kids like ASP in comparison, they’ve no problems doing that as well."
- Sources?

Not sure what would precipitate an attack of the Canucks selection of Willander?

"In a perfect world ASP would’ve already been off the board when the Canucks drafted Willander. Just so the Canucks would never have to answer for passing on an elite player, if that’s how this all turns out."
- We got the player we wanted and he's developing just fine?

"Or even on days like today, when it was very apparent there’s a pretty large gap between the two young dmen. There’s no talking around it at this point."
- Odd statement given their competition will be completely different in the NHL. Days like today means jack shit...Couldn't muster a single point against Kazakhstan.....OMG busting now?

"We’ll see where things are in 4-5 years but Willinder is likely NEVER going to be much offensively, and for him to end up being an effective NHL Top 4 Dman, he’s gonna have to be more confident handling the puck, and obviously start putting on some weight and muscle."
- Could say this same thing about ASP defensively and add for a small undersized defender. Willander is 191lbs now not 180.

"It’s also why we’re never going to get honest opinions about Willinder’s development from the Vancouver media either. God forbid they ever admit he’s not on par with ASP. He’s still a good prospect though"
- Again some sources for this please?. I haven't read a single thing disparaging about ASP in Vancouver

"He deserves his props but let’s also not pretend. Kids like ASP, Bonk, Molyndyk, Price, Gibson, etc, have all passed him up. Some pretty significantly. All drafted after him."
- Seriously? this is a poor take. I wouldn't take a single player from that list above Willander.

ASP looks like a great pick he's taken steps that make me believe he will be a productive NHLer that can run a PP. He's been fantastic and is obviously ready for the next challenge. Offensive acumen puck support passing and shot are all outstanding attributes.