HF Habs: Out of Town Thread: Off-Season Edition

[Andy]

Yeah we’ll see with those signings but I definitely rate the approach of not putting all your eggs in the drafting/tanking philosophy

That's not always going to be possible, I don't mind making bold moves, they just better pay off.

You're not always going to be able to fleece GMs and if you just sit around waiting for that, you never get anything accomplished.

Comments like the one Re-Habs made is just another example of fans thinking trades are won solely on the merit of f***ing over the other team.

 

[Archijerej]

Detroit is well run — they’re not doing “drafting and development” OR “competing with the league” OR “instituting a winning culture”.

You mean what would be called "not picking a direction" around these parts?

 

[ReHabs]

Comments like the one Re-Habs made is just another example of fans thinking trades are won solely on the merit of f***ing over the other team.

Not at all. Not remotely.

I don’t even believe in “winning trades”. I hated that dynamic when it came to Marc Bergevin and all his fans in social media.

My point is much different: Hughes comparatively paid a lot for both Dach and Newhook (unproven at the time of trade as NHL top6 players) while Fiala last year and PLD and DeBrindcat this year have been traded for comparatively good deals for the buying teams. PLD, DeBrindcat, and Fiala were all better players than Newhook and Dach at the time of trade.

It’s ultimately not worth whining about now but we will see how this all develops. I don’t think it’ll be easy to leapfrog Detroit or Ottawa in the near future.

You mean what would be called "not picking a direction" around these parts?

Rebuilding is building, I would support any positive (net gain in quality) development rather than standing pat and hoping players develop. It would be nice to see the Habs acquire NHL level talent. I think @417 agrees. You need to be always improving.

 

[Habs Halifax]

MB walked into a golden situation with two superstars and a young sniper entering their prime. He had Markov returning and a top three pick.

Do you seriously think these situations are anything alike?

Don't get side tracked. The point is building futures to go along with what you inherit. You're making it a inherit debate now. Fans did start to turn on Bergevin at the 4/5 year mark. Couldn't add to what he already had.

It's been 4 years with Yzerman. 5 Drafts. I expected him to be further along and yes, I am curious to see how long it takes him.

 

[Belial]

My point is much different: Hughes comparatively paid a lot for both Dach and Newhook (unproven at the time of trade as NHL top6 players) while Fiala last year and PLD and DeBrindcat this year have been traded for comparatively good deals for the buying teams. PLD, DeBrindcat, and Fiala were all better players than Newhook and Dach at the time of trade.

It’s ultimately not worth whining about now but we will see how this all develops. I don’t think it’ll be easy to leapfrog Detroit or Ottawa in the near future.

Completely different stages of team building though.

 

[Archijerej]

Rebuilding is building, I would support any positive (net gain in quality) development rather than standing pat and hoping players develop. It would be nice to see the Habs acquire NHL level talent. I think @417 agrees. You need to be always improving.

It's their second offseason and we are still in July. We can nitpick at individual players still being on the roster (example: Anderson), or a position not yet addressed (example: goalie), but I encourage you to take a look at the roster turnover since the Cup Final. Some of those changes were not Hugo's decisions, but due to their recency they heavily influence the environment the current management operates in. The rate of change is staggering. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in Montreal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's their second offseason and we are still in July. We can nitpick at individual players still being on the roster (example: Anderson), or a position not yet addressed (example: goalie), but I encourage you to take a look at the roster turnover since the Cup Final. Some of those changes were not Hugo's decisions, but due to their recency they heavily influence the environment the current management operates in. The rate of change is staggering. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in Montreal.

The rate of change is due to frustration over time IMO. Look at where the Leafs were before Shannahan. They had 10+ years of misery so all of fans, media, management, and ownership were open to a proper rebuild.

Our cup run was circumstantial luck but we have to go back to when the Habs stopped trading futures away. That's when they made the change to hoard the futures. I believe that was around 2017. Not many other teams can match our draft power in the last 7 drafts.

Gorton/Hughes have just taken the baton away from Bergevin and accelerated the rebuild to some degree. But Molson was open to the rebuild prior to Gorton/Hughes. I'm glad he made the decision to have two faces of management, not one. It was long overdue.

 

[Whitesnake]

Love to see how much you want a prospect..lol. Awesome pick.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Not at all. Not remotely.

I don’t even believe in “winning trades”. I hated that dynamic when it came to Marc Bergevin and all his fans in social media.

My point is much different: Hughes comparatively paid a lot for both Dach and Newhook (unproven at the time of trade as NHL top6 players) while Fiala last year and PLD and DeBrindcat this year have been traded for comparatively good deals for the buying teams. PLD, DeBrindcat, and Fiala were all better players than Newhook and Dach at the time of trade.

It’s ultimately not worth whining about now but we will see how this all develops. I don’t think it’ll be easy to leapfrog Detroit or Ottawa in the near future.


Rebuilding is building, I would support any positive (net gain in quality) development rather than standing pat and hoping players develop. It would be nice to see the Habs acquire NHL level talent. I think @417 agrees. You need to be always improving.

Dubois and Debrincat were only interested in the team they went to. Fiala probably too as well as him being too old for a rebuilding team. HuGo is not adding vets like Fiala and Debrincat until the end of the rebuild.

 

[Belial]

It's their second offseason and we are still in July. We can nitpick at individual players still being on the roster (example: Anderson), or a position not yet addressed (example: goalie), but I encourage you to take a look at the roster turnover since the Cup Final. Some of those changes were not Hugo's decisions, but due to their recency they heavily influence the environment the current management operates in. The rate of change is staggering. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in Montreal.

The entire D group was overhauled since our Cup run...

 

[ReHabs]

It's their second offseason and we are still in July. We can nitpick at individual players still being on the roster (example: Anderson), or a position not yet addressed (example: goalie), but I encourage you to take a look at the roster turnover since the Cup Final. Some of those changes were not Hugo's decisions, but due to their recency they heavily influence the environment the current management operates in. The rate of change is staggering. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in Montreal.

We aren’t racing against ourselves, other teams are building and improving too — without tangible roster improvements there is a real risk of being stuck on the perpetual not good enough treadmill.

At this moment in the NHL: We don’t have a 1C, we don’t have an elite productive forward (80pts+), we don’t have a 1D, a 1G… our other rebuilding rivals have them.

It’s obviously too early to criticize them and I don’t mean to come across as on the hatewagon… I am not… but it’s a topic that won’t go away as time goes forward. Even the HabsInsideOut guys were talking about it.

Hughes has cap space and a buttload of prospects and an owner who claims he is willing to spend. The time to be proactive isn’t later it’s now.

 

[ReHabs]

Dubois and Debrincat were only interested in the team they went to. Fiala probably too as well as him being too old for a rebuilding team. HuGo is not adding vets like Fiala and Debrincat until the end of the rebuild.

It’s awfully competitive in the NHL. When premium players are on the market and they would be a clear roster upgrade, that’s the time to acquire them. When Tavares was hitting free agency Bergevin was very interested until Tavares refused to even meet with the Habs.

A bird in hand…

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Smart move by Melnyk's daughters selling the team before this terrible trade was made.

 

[Belial]

It’s awfully competitive in the NHL. When premium players are on the market and they would be a clear roster upgrade, that’s the time to acquire them. When Tavares was hitting free agency Bergevin was very interested until Tavares refused to even meet with the Habs.

A bird in hand…

Tavares was a UFA! I have no idea why you brought up Dubois. We're not in a position to trade the assets LA traded.

LA is going all in because Kopitar and Doughty are on their last legs...

 

[Ezpz]

Smart move by Melnyk's daughters selling the team before this terrible trade was made.

The terrible trade was acquiring debrincat to begin with. A top ten pick for a guy who doesn't want to sign with you.

 

[Paddyjack]

We aren’t racing against ourselves, other teams are building and improving too — without tangible roster improvements there is a real risk of being stuck on the perpetual not good enough treadmill.

At this moment in the NHL: We don’t have a 1C, we don’t have an elite productive forward (80pts+), we don’t have a 1D, a 1G… our other rebuilding rivals have them.

It’s obviously too early to criticize them and I don’t mean to come across as on the hatewagon… I am not… but it’s a topic that won’t go away as time goes forward. Even the HabsInsideOut guys were talking about it.

Hughes has cap space and a buttload of prospects and an owner who claims he is willing to spend. The time to be proactive isn’t later it’s now.

I think the next training camp + the first two months of the season will be more revealing of what we have in hands right now. Players who did their first season last year will train and grow in their confidence during the summer, and I expect them to come very strong in camp. Comparables will be made with the next crop of players battling to make the NHL. And THEN it will be easier to see who can be traded for needed assets.

BTW, it's been quite a while since I've seen such great competition from youngsters for NHL positions with the Habs. This is only a good thing that keeps players focused and performing.

 

[417]

Not at all. Not remotely.

I don’t even believe in “winning trades”. I hated that dynamic when it came to Marc Bergevin and all his fans in social media.

My point is much different: Hughes comparatively paid a lot for both Dach and Newhook (unproven at the time of trade as NHL top6 players) while Fiala last year and PLD and DeBrindcat this year have been traded for comparatively good deals for the buying teams. PLD, DeBrindcat, and Fiala were all better players than Newhook and Dach at the time of trade.

It’s ultimately not worth whining about now but we will see how this all develops. I don’t think it’ll be easy to leapfrog Detroit or Ottawa in the near future.


Rebuilding is building, I would support any positive (net gain in quality) development rather than standing pat and hoping players develop. It would be nice to see the Habs acquire NHL level talent. I think @417 agrees. You need to be always improving.

Also would be nice, and actually it is necessary, for the current NHL talent on the team to take the next step in their development. We've got a host of players currently on the team between 18-25 that all have more to give and I find that gets lost in the search for the next big thing at the draft.

But all of that will be moot if guys kike Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Guhle, Barron, Dach etc, don't reach another level.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Don't get side tracked. The point is building futures to go along with what you inherit. You're making it a inherit debate now. Fans did start to turn on Bergevin at the 4/5 year mark. Couldn't add to what he already had.

It's been 4 years with Yzerman. 5 Drafts. I expected him to be further along and yes, I am curious to see how long it takes him.

Apples and oranges.

 

[Andrei79]

Not at all. Not remotely.

I don’t even believe in “winning trades”. I hated that dynamic when it came to Marc Bergevin and all his fans in social media.

My point is much different: Hughes comparatively paid a lot for both Dach and Newhook (unproven at the time of trade as NHL top6 players) while Fiala last year and PLD and DeBrindcat this year have been traded for comparatively good deals for the buying teams. PLD, DeBrindcat, and Fiala were all better players than Newhook and Dach at the time of trade.

It’s ultimately not worth whining about now but we will see how this all develops. I don’t think it’ll be easy to leapfrog Detroit or Ottawa in the near future.


Rebuilding is building, I would support any positive (net gain in quality) development rather than standing pat and hoping players develop. It would be nice to see the Habs acquire NHL level talent. I think @417 agrees. You need to be always improving.

There's a premium on cap space and age, which would explain the price on Dach and Newhook. I'll add two of the players you mentioned limited their trade possibilities. Hughes payed a fair price for potentially great players. It's an approach I prefer to the cigar butt one where you're getting one last cheap puff out of a player.

Agreed about Ottawa and Detroit. I'll add Buffalo too, who are stacked at all positions on top of having likely the most unique center in the league. I really wonder how teams will contain Thompson once they get into the playoffs. I do wonder though if Detroit is going about it the right way. They have some high end prospects on defense, but I'm not convinced on the rest. They're expediting the process while lacking talent up front. Yzerman not a jackass though so we'll see.

 

[Skip Bayless]

See that's the difference between this and the Dubois case. DeBrincat only wanted to go to Detroit and it got done. If Dubois really wanted to go to Montreal, it would have been done just like this.

You're right.

 

[Colezuki]

Love to see how much you want a prospect..lol. Awesome pick.

Unrelated but do we know when the draft video for the habs will be up?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Unrelated but do we know when the draft video for the habs will be up?

Last year's behind the scenes video was released like 2 months after the draft. They released it late August.

 

[CDN24]

There's a premium on cap space and age, which would explain the price on Dach and Newhook. I'll add two of the players you mentioned limited their trade possibilities. Hughes payed a fair price for potentially great players. It's an approach I prefer to the cigar butt one where you're getting one last cheap puff out of a player.

Agreed about Ottawa and Detroit. I'll add Buffalo too, who are stacked at all positions on top of having likely the most unique center in the league. I really wonder how teams will contain Thompson once they get into the playoffs. I do wonder though if Detroit is going about it the right way. They have some high end prospects on defense, but I'm not convinced on the rest. They're expediting the process while lacking talent up front. Yzerman not a jackass though so we'll see.

Yeah Detroit is interesting. Granted that other than Larkin the cupboard was pretty bare when they started but they have drafted in the top 10 for 7 straight seasons yet their Roster is full of players acquired from other teams (mostly by free agency over the last 24 Months)

Up front Debrincat, copp, Chompher, perron, kostin, Sprong Fischer have all been acquired in last 2 yrs
On D its Chiarot,Ghost, Holl, walmen, maatta
and both Goalies Husso and reimer
7F,5D and 2 G are recent adds from other teams.

After 7 years drafting in Top 10 I would have expected more home grown talent on the team or pushing at the door.

 

[Colezuki]

Yeah Detroit is interesting. Granted that other than Larkin the cupboard was pretty bare when they started but they have drafted in the top 10 for 7 straight seasons yet their Roster is full of players acquired from other teams (mostly by free agency over the last 24 Months)

Up front Debrincat, copp, Chompher, perron, kostin, Sprong Fischer have all been acquired in last 2 yrs
On D its Chiarot,Ghost, Holl, walmen, maatta
and both Goalies Husso and reimer
7F,5D and 2 G are recent adds from other teams.

After 7 years drafting in Top 10 I would have expected more home grown talent on the team or pushing at the door.

yeah there drafting looks like it was being lead by timmins for the first round between 2015 and 2018 (Larkin to Seider)
1st Round picks
- Chlowski - 20th - Bust
- E. Svechnikov - 19th - 3rd liner
- Rasmussen - 9th - 2nd liner
- Zadina - 6th - Bust
- Veleno -30th - 3rd/4th liner

Team would look a lot better if just one more of those guys hit

 

[Colezuki]

Detroits a weird one to be sure, but I don't like there team make up, feels a lot like the Habs with Camalleri but without the Top goalie