HF Habs: Out of Town Thread: Off-Season Edition

[Riggins]

Detroit is still going to be trash, zero chance at making the playoffs. I'm just glad now they likely won't compete with us for last in the division. They're gunning for mediocrity for the next decade.

 

[hardcorehabs]

Detroit is still going to be trash, zero chance at making the playoffs. I'm just glad now they likely won't compete with us for last in the division. They're gunning for mediocrity for the next decade.

This will be us too next summer likely

 

[ReHabs]

Yes because he is NOT a premium player.

Okay why can’t the Habs acquire “not premium” 40g scorers if they’re so hell bent on being competitive and having a good culture?

He is slightly older not slightly better. I don't get why we assume Suzuki has peaked? He still has a number of seasons to go with hopefully a stronger team and cast of characters before he will reach his apex. His stats are very much in line with Larkin's first four seasons plus he has some post season pedigree Larkin does not have.

They’re both deployed in all situations, they’re both on crappy rosters, they’re both defacto not dejure 1Cs… but Suzuki has never hit 70pts and Larkin has twice. I think saying Larkin has a slight edge in overall ability at this moment in time isn’t such a controversial statement. Want to take it to the general board and poll? I’m actually curious now.

 

[DAChampion]

How is it possible that DeBrincat got traded in the division?

;-)

 

[Kaladin]

No Dorion got fooled by thinking that he could sign an American UFA long term. It's hard to pull off for any Canadian team.

That doesn't change what I said though. Small wingers have little value.

You either think Ottawa got a good deal and small wingers have little value or that ottawa got fleeced and small wingers can actually have value. You can't have both friend.

 

[Andrei79]

You either think Ottawa got a good deal and small wingers have little value or that ottawa got fleeced and small wingers can actually have value. You can't have both friend.

This makes no sense at all.

 

[Rapala]

Okay why can’t the Habs acquire “not premium” 40g scorers if they’re so hell bent on being competitive and having a good culture?


They’re both deployed in all situations, they’re both on crappy rosters, they’re both defacto not dejure 1Cs… but Suzuki has never hit 70pts and Larkin has twice. I think saying Larkin has a slight edge in overall ability at this moment in time isn’t such a controversial statement. Want to take it to the general board and poll? I’m actually curious now.

Larkin hit 70 points in his later years maybe we shoud let Suzuki play out those years too? Like I said their first 4 seasons are a dead heat.

 

[417]

Dorion lol

Teflon GM

I find he’s awful, good scout but has no idea how to build a team

Larkin is slightly better than Suzuki, imo. He’s been on some real crap teams too, don’t forget.

Detroit is well run — they’re not doing “drafting and development” OR “competing with the league” OR “instituting a winning culture”. They’re trying to do all three because they all feed into each other (ie it’s better for a young player’s development to happen in a winning environment).

Yzerman said his plan clearly and plainly: he signed those players this summer to get this team to the next level. He can deal them away when better young players come in or hold onto them as he sees fit.

And now he’s acquired a premium player from a divisional rival. Wild how some teams manage to do that.

I agree with this but I'm not so sure he's executed it properly, haven't liked many of their free agent signings.

 

[Rapala]

How is it possible that DeBrincat got traded in the division?

;-)

desperation.

 

[Kaladin]

This makes no sense at all.

What about it doesn't make sense?

If you think small wingers have no value then Debrincat as a small winger getting a 1st rounder, and 3 other assets is by definition more than no value. In fact pretty great value. So Ottawa got great value.

I don't understand the mental gymnastics going through someone's head that believes simaltaneously:

A) Small wingers have no value
B) Ottawa got a bad deal

Maybe you can help explain it too me.

 

[Habano]

You have a great point there. PLD has potential, and I was willing to pay for that. But what do guys regularly scoring 80 plus points or at least at that pace earn?

Nylander based on PLD's contract should be aiming for minimum 9.5.

Matthews will be bending that team over with a 14 mil per contract.

LA is paying the prima donna almost $135,000 per point based on last year's numbers. So, Nylander should be asking for roughly $11.75 million but settle for $10mil. as a favour and discount for the Laffs

 

[417]

Detroit paid almost the same price as the Habs paid for Newhook.

1st (31st), and conditional 1st are close.
Habs 2nd, 37th is better than Kubalik.

Fairbrother and Sebrango are pretty much similar.

4th - nothing.

Different situations, Sens had no leverage

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Main clowning on Detroit fans on main board is hilarious
They think Yzerman is doing a good job...

Chariot
Ghost
Holl
Copp at close to 6m
JT Compher at 5m

and ok Debrincat.

Man hell of a GM , loves to waste money on Ufa

 

[Kimota]

See that's the difference between this and the Dubois case. DeBrincat only wanted to go to Detroit and it got done. If Dubois really wanted to go to Montreal, it would have been done just like this.

 

[ReHabs]

Larkin hit 70 points in his later years maybe we shoud let Suzuki play out those years too? Like I said their first 4 seasons are a dead heat.

I don’t know why this has to be an argument. That’s fine if you are certain that Suzuki will surpass him in the future but as of this very moment it isn’t controversial to think Larkin has the edge.

I agree with this but I'm not so sure he's executed it properly, haven't liked many of their free agent signings.

Well we don’t know until it plays out but it seems like he is certain he won’t be affected by the cap commitments they have. They’ve signed high-character players as far as I can tell so it’s easy to take Yzerman as this word: he wants a winning culture until the youngsters take the reigns.

It’s a more aggressive, more forward approach than what the Habs have. But to be fair to Hughes, Yzerman has been at it for longer and also has a huge stud in Seider and we have no such player on the NHL roster yet.

Different situations, Sens had no leverage

Hughes should in the future make deals with teams that have no leverage rather than teams that fleece him.

See that's the difference between this and the Dubois case. DeBrincat only wanted to go to Detroit and it got done. If Dubois really wanted to go to Montreal, it would have been done just like this.

DeBrindcat was open to multiple teams — this was widely reported.

The Habs didn’t get to the point to make an offer for PLD because they didn’t offer the best deal to acquire him. If Hughes wanted to acquire PLD, we would’ve had him as a Hab.

 

[Team_Spirit]

DeBrincat traded for not much and Tatar still looking for a spot after 50pts and +40 season.. Smaller wingers are not in vogue.
-
Hawks offered 16 and 41 to trade up and draft Moore but got him anyways

 

[Kimota]

DeBrindcat was open to multiple teams — this was widely reported.

The Habs didn’t get to the point to make an offer for PLD because they didn’t offer the best deal to acquire him. If Hughes wanted to acquire PLD, we would’ve had him as a Hab.

I don't think so. Dorion said he said wanted to go to Detroit and he was traded there. Pretty simple, really. Stop trying to contradict things just to win an argument.

 

[Saundies]

Incredible stuff from Yzerman.

Intra-division trade to acquire a premium player. None of the pieces sent out are going to be missed by DET. Wow! Just today I was told these trades don’t happen…

@Saundies what’s your take? Another trade which we shouldn’t count as evidence that teams can acquire premium players?

Yes because he is NOT a premium player.

Same as @Boss Man Hughes . Pretty simple.

Plus he demanded to only go to one team and played hardball with the Sens. Pretty easy to try to win arguments when you leave all the context out, though, eh? I forget, when did Eichel only want to be traded here and force the Sabres to only negotiate with us? Must have missed that news report when it was happening.

 

[417]

Well we don’t know until it plays out but it seems like he is certain he won’t be affected by the cap commitments they have. They’ve signed high-character players as far as I can tell so it’s easy to take Yzerman as this word: he wants a winning culture until the youngsters take the reigns.

Yeah we’ll see with those signings but I definitely rate the approach of not putting all your eggs in the drafting/tanking philosophy

Hughes should in the future make deals with teams that have no leverage rather than teams that fleece him.

That's not always going to be possible, I don't mind making bold moves, they just better pay off.

You're not always going to be able to fleece GMs and if you just sit around waiting for that, you never get anything accomplished.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I don’t know why this has to be an argument. That’s fine if you are certain that Suzuki will surpass him in the future but as of this very moment it isn’t controversial to think Larkin has the edge.


Well we don’t know until it plays out but it seems like he is certain he won’t be affected by the cap commitments they have. They’ve signed high-character players as far as I can tell so it’s easy to take Yzerman as this word: he wants a winning culture until the youngsters take the reigns.

It’s a more aggressive, more forward approach than what the Habs have. But to be fair to Hughes, Yzerman has been at it for longer and also has a huge stud in Seider and we have no such player on the NHL roster yet.


Hughes should in the future make deals with teams that have no leverage rather than teams that fleece him.


DeBrindcat was open to multiple teams — this was widely reported.

The Habs didn’t get to the point to make an offer for PLD because they didn’t offer the best deal to acquire him. If Hughes wanted to acquire PLD, we would’ve had him as a Hab.

I heard DeBrincat only wanted to go to Detroit. if he was open to several teams the return should have been more unless they weren't willing to meet his contract demands.

 

[Saundies]

I heard DeBrincat only wanted to go to Detroit. if he was open to several teams the return should have been more unless they weren't willing to meet his contract demands.

He did. From this clip of Bruce Garrioch on TSN. He's a really well connected reporter in Ottawa for the Sens.

Interviewer: Bruce, how did the DeBrincat deal finally come together?

Garrioch: Well I think in the end, Adam, Alex DeBrincat wasn't really willing to go anywhere else. He wanted to go to Detroit all along and he was focused on that with his agent Jeff Jackson. The Senators tried to talk to the Anaheim Ducks and the New York Islanders about deals, but they wanted to sign him to an 8 year contract extension. He didn't want to sign in any of those places because essentially, he wanted to go to the motor city and he was willing to take less money to go there as we saw.

 

[ReHabs]

I don't think so. Dorion said he said wanted to go to Detroit and he was traded there. Pretty simple, really. Stop trying to contradict things just to win an argument.

Same as @Boss Man Hughes . Pretty simple.

Plus he demanded to only go to one team and played hardball with the Sens. Pretty easy to try to win arguments when you leave all the context out, though, eh? I forget, when did Eichel only want to be traded here and force the Sabres to only negotiate with us? Must have missed that news report when it was happening.

I heard DeBrincat only wanted to go to Detroit. if he was open to several teams the return should have been more unless they weren't willing to meet his contract demands.

He did. From this clip of Bruce Garrioch on TSN. He's a really well connected reporter in Ottawa for the Sens.

Interviewer: Bruce, how did the DeBrincat deal finally come together?

Garrioch: Well I think in the end, Adam, Alex DeBrincat wasn't really willing to go anywhere else. He wanted to go to Detroit all along and he was focused on that with his agent Jeff Jackson. The Senators tried to talk to the Anaheim Ducks and the New York Islanders about deals, but they wanted to sign him to an 8 year contract extension. He didn't want to sign in any of those places because essentially, he wanted to go to the motor city and he was willing to take less money to go there as we saw.

Thank you for the new information. I hadn’t seen the quote from Garrioch (who would know best, really).

Point conceded.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Rebuilds take time. And sometimes you strike out on a top pick like Zedina and it extends the rebuild. Too early to judge Yzerman’s GM tenure in Detroit. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

4 seasons so far? I wouldn't say it's early but yeah, it does take time. I'm pretty sure around the 4/5 year mark, Bergevin frustration kicked in on his inability to get us over the hump. So I guess Yzerman gets the slack in Detroit but in Montreal, it's less patience. It will happen to Gorton/Hughes if we are in the Wings spot after 4 years.

Still a fan of Yzerman. All I was saying is I wonder how long it will take. Didn't say it was a sprint.

 

[sandviper]

4 seasons so far? I wouldn't say it's early but yeah, it does take time. I'm pretty sure around the 4/5 year mark, Bergevin frustration kicked in on his inability to get us over the hump. So I guess Yzerman gets the slack in Detroit but in Montreal, it's less patience. It will happen to Gorton/Hughes if we are in the Wings spot after 4 years.

Still a fan of Yzerman. All I was saying is I wonder how long it will take. Didn't say it was a sprint.

I agree with you but I do think we have to consider where the teams were. I don’t follow Detroit but I think Yzerman came into a situation where Detroit wasn’t that far along. Bergy inherited a non-playoff team also but had a foundation. Like you said, he couldn‘t get us over the hump. As for the patience, well, that’s Montreal; not really much else to write about or talk on Tv/radio other than the Habs. Detroit has 3 other pro teams to talk about.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

4 seasons so far? I wouldn't say it's early but yeah, it does take time. I'm pretty sure around the 4/5 year mark, Bergevin frustration kicked in on his inability to get us over the hump. So I guess Yzerman gets the slack in Detroit but in Montreal, it's less patience. It will happen to Gorton/Hughes if we are in the Wings spot after 4 years.

Still a fan of Yzerman. All I was saying is I wonder how long it will take. Didn't say it was a sprint.

MB walked into a golden situation with two superstars and a young sniper entering their prime. He had Markov returning and a top three pick.

Do you seriously think these situations are anything alike?