HF Habs: Out of Town Thread: Off-Season Edition

[Boss Man Hughes]

Important distinction is Molson is also talking about a rebuild.

He only did that when attendance/profits didn't go down when they started to tear it down. If Molson started to lose money the rebuild would have been over in a flash.

 

[Barriwhite]

Holy Toffoli, is he going for another hatty?

 

[donghabs98]

No, Montreal has been in a perpetual try to make it in at 7th-8th seed.. still thanks Molson. But they're rebuilding now and they're doing it the right way; just people have unreasonable expectations on how fast a rebuild goes.

This is year 3.. the average length of time for a rebuild to hit is 5-10 seasons.

Sometimes I see the reaction from some after a loss or a young guy not doing well and it reminds me of why Molson seemed so reluctant to rebuild. Some don't have the patience for it. Thankfully, Molson finally got over that and brought in people who isnt afraid of a rebuild.

 

[donghabs98]

Washington is quite bad. Looking like a lottery team. Not enough talent and are slow.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

He only did that when attendance/profits didn't go down when they started to tear it down. If Molson started to lose money the rebuild would have been over in a flash.

You should re-think this. Molson didn't chose to rebuild, he was forced to by circumstances which were a byproduct of his previous inaction/bad decisions. Furthermore, even if they had kept guys like Toff, Lehk or Chiarot, we'd still suck our way to the bottom. You can't just snap your fingers to undo Bergevin's damage.

 

[EXPOS123]

They are bringing in new age thinkers with the preference on development vs. winning games tactically.

The issue isn't with Marty or Robidas, who have both done a stellar job.

It's with the Bergevin era holdouts in Letowski, Burrows and Houle.

I’d also add Martin Lapointe

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You should re-think this. Molson didn't chose to rebuild, he was forced to by circumstances which were a byproduct of his previous inaction/bad decisions. Furthermore, even if they had kept guys like Toff, Lehk or Chiarot, we'd still suck our way to the bottom. You can't just snap your fingers to undo Bergevin's damage.

Nothing to rethink. If after a few moves by HuGo attendance/profits dropped off Molson would have cut off any rebuild. Molsons wouldn't risk fans leaving and not coming back (especialy if the rebuild failed).

 

[Skip Bayless]

Holy Toffoli, is he going for another hatty?

Ever since he left LA he's been nothing short of an elite winger.

 

[ArtPeur]

Holy Toffoli, is he going for another hatty?

Hughes has only 3 assists. How lame.

Funny story though.

I had le 5@7 + Hockey360 on TV yesterday as background noise. They said we should be hopeful with Slaf because Hughes struggled a lot in his first NHL seasons and look how he is today.

... yeah they're totally the same players and will have the same progressions

 

[salbutera]

He only did that when attendance/profits didn't go down when they started to tear it down. If Molson started to lose money the rebuild would have been over in a flash.

Also the consortium’s non hockey related ventures are not “breaking record revenues” shall we say from what I’m told - Molson’s public statement of uttering the word “rebuild” is a calculated plead to the fanbase, given increase in prices (tix, concessions etc) given inflationary pressures

 

[morhilane]

Washington is quite bad. Looking like a lottery team. Not enough talent and are slow.

It was evident watching the Habs/Caps game last Saturday and they were a lottery team last year.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Sometimes I see the reaction from some after a loss or a young guy not doing well and it reminds me of why Molson seemed so reluctant to rebuild. Some don't have the patience for it. Thankfully, Molson finally got over that and brought in people who isnt afraid of a rebuild.

This fan base wanted a rebuild and immediately showed they can't handle what that entails.

Luckily the management group doesn't care that fans will go depressive if Slaf doesn't score a goal every shift.

 

[Redux91]

Washington is quite bad. Looking like a lottery team. Not enough talent and are slow.

Everyone on the team is like 35 yrs old lmao

 

[Habssince89]

Hughes has only 3 assists. How lame.

Funny story though.

I had le 5@7 + Hockey360 on TV yesterday as background noise. They said we should be hopeful with Slaf because Hughes struggled a lot in his first NHL seasons and look how he is today.

... yeah they're totally the same players and will have the same progressions

its obviously relative to the player, and the hosts are absolutely right.

 

[JianYang]

I for one am glad i got to witness the greatness of prime Subban and prime Price, even if they were wasted by an incompetent management. Price was the best player in the league for a more or less 24 month period, thats something not a lot of fans get to see. Pittsburgh, Edmonton, Washington, Chicago, San Jose since the 04 lockout... thats about it?

Its not all doom and gloom.

Now offensively, if you want to talk about that...


The rebuild 2.0 sure... But Bergevin made a lot of rebuilding moves since 2016. He hadn't been a buyer sicne 2015, really. It's a poor excuse overall, the rebuild did not start in 2021 when Gorton was hired.

Rebuild moves before 2021:
Kovy for a 3rd
Scandella for a 2nd
Dlo for a 4th
Pac for Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd
Morrow for a 4th
Pleks for a 2nd

I'd say at the very least, the rebuild started, gingerly, in early 2018 when they moved on from Pleks.

I don't qualify that as a committed rebuild because it was a period where they were also making alot of "win now" moves and relying heavily on cornerstone veterans such as price and weber. I don't think the mark of a rebuilding team is to acquire guys like toffoli, hoffman, Edmundson, and Perry. They signed petry and Gallagher then to deals to take them to the end of their career. Then trading a first for Dvorak instead of biting the bullet.

They kept trying to reload even after price was essentially cooked and weber was fully cooked.... Right up until Bergevin was finally let go.

 

[Habsfunk]

Washington's only purpose the next few years is to get Ovechkin the all-time goal scoring record and rack up some high draft picks in the process.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

This fan base wanted a rebuild and immediately showed they can't handle what that entails.

Luckily the management group doesn't care that fans will go depressive if Slaf doesn't score a goal every shift.

I am sure Hughes doesn't care what Molson or the fans think. If Molson tries to interfere with GM decisions he will probably quit. Gorton might stay.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Nothing to rethink. If after a few moves by HuGo attendance/profits dropped off Molson would have cut off any rebuild. Molsons wouldn't risk fans leaving and not coming back (especialy if the rebuild failed).

This is what you don't get. He couldn't have cut off anything. He's friggin forced to rebuild. There's no amount of possible/probable signings, nor the necessary space to accomplish any kind of turnaround. You can keep believing Molson could've willed the team to compete level, all you want, it remains a fantasy. There was no realistic way to avoid what's happening.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't qualify that as a committed rebuild because it was a period where they were also making alot of "win now" moves and relying heavily on cornerstone veterans such as price and weber. I don't think the mark of a rebuilding team is to acquire guys like toffoli, hoffman, Edmundson, and Perry. They signed petry and Gallagher then to deals to take them to the end of their career. Then trading a first for Dvorak instead of biting the bullet.

They kept trying to reload even after price was essentially cooked and weber was fully cooked.... Right up until Bergevin was finally let go.

Commited or not, he still moved out a lot more than he acquired. He lacked direction, thats for sure, he tried his best to keep the team competitive and failed miserably. It doesn't mean that the team didn't stack value during this time.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

This is what you don't get. He couldn't have cut off anything. He's friggin forced to rebuild. There's no amount of possible/probable signings, nor the necessary space to accomplish any kind of turnaround. You can keep believing Molson could've willed the team to compete level, all you want, it remains a fantasy. There was no realistic way to avoid what's happening.

When HuGo took over there was nothing forcing him to rebuild. They could have gone after fA's and kept being mediocre. Molson wouldn't care about compete level. Just fooling fans into thinking the team was worth watching. Once there was no going back - 2 years in - then he comes out and says he was behind the rebuild all along.

 

[Adriatic]

My my my devils are so trash. Can't even beat crappy caps

 

[salbutera]

My my my devils are so trash. Can't even beat crappy caps

The margin between best & worst team in the NHL has never been as razor thin - any team can win on any given night

 

[Kimota]

Yeah I wonder why he wanted out.

You put your big boy pants and say: "Listen KK, Ive wronged you, I shouldn't have done that. Heres what we can do to make you happy".

It's a lame excuse that takes away the blame from Bergevin.

I mean I would have done that. But Bergevin clearly didn't like KK as much as we do. So he was probably like "I'm still not sure about this guy" so was not ready to give him that much in that optic.

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean I would have done that. But Bergevin clearly didn't like KK as much as we do. So he was probably like "I'm still not sure about this guy" so was not ready to give him that much in that optic.

Which is his problem, f*** that guy, he doesn't any leniency.

 

[JianYang]

Commited or not, he still moved out a lot more than he acquired. He lacked direction, thats for sure, he tried his best to keep the team competitive and failed miserably. It doesn't mean that the team didn't stack value during this time.

I think what Bergevin was trying to do (and he may have even referenced to it at the time if I remember correctly) was to model after the Bruins.

Boston hit a rut in the mid 2010s and were missing the playoffs. Bergeron and Chara were getting up there and there were questions of whether they could compete with that group of players anymore. They ended up getting a new coach and did a little reset. Then the Bruins turned it around and became contenders once again with Bergeron still a focal peice, while Chara was getting older but still was the leader of the room.

I think Bergevin was trying to do his own version of a little "Boston" reset around price and weber for their final competitive years, and whatever intention he may have had to commit to an actual rebuild was probably very short lived and abolished after that 96 point season in 2018-2019.