News Article: Ottawa Senators Organization Actively Considering Building Arena At Lebreton Flats

[Micklebot]

He's also the MP for Ottawa-West Nepean though. How he's able to continue as MoF, however ineffectual you think he is, is because he's an MP. Still has constituents in the city. Big stakes.

I find it's a rarity that MPs look out for their constituencies these days. I think people have forgotten that their job is supposed to be represent their constituents first, and party second (imo).

I long for the day they remove party affiiliation from the ballet, and force voters to actually pay attention to who they are voting for. Terrible decision to include party names on the ballot imo. Can't see any positives in allowing voters to be lazy.

sry for getting off topic.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I find it's a rarity that MPs look out for their constituencies these days. I think people have forgotten that their job is supposed to be represent their constituents first, and party second (imo).

I long for the day they remove party affiiliation from the ballet, and force voters to actually pay attention to who they are voting for. Terrible decision to include party names on the ballot imo. Can't see any positives in allowing voters to be lazy.

sry for getting off topic.

The Canadian political system is really heavily based on the party model. It wouldn't be able to function as it does currently without the same high level of party discipline. MPs looking to better their constituencies learn this relatively quickly upon arriving in Ottawa.

 

[Sensored]

kanata is the loser here, and therein lies the problem. The sens largest and most loyal fanbase has the most to lose, and the sens need to bet on the rest of the city to replace their demand in order for a downtown arena to work.

I call bs. Kanata has 100,000 people in it, Centretown has 550,000 people. What is the likelihood that there's more Sens fans in Kanata than downtown? Fans don't just move into the neighborhood because the arena's close.

 

[Tnouc Alucard]

If people think that it's congested around the game now an arena downtown in Ottawa would be 100x worse IMO.

That said I don't really care either way where the arena is as long as it's in Ottawa.

I don't buy this premise.

First of all, on game days, many people who work downtown drive out to the CTC. If the Arena was already downtown, a very high percentage of those people would walk or us OCtranspo to get to the game.

Also many people who drive from home now, on game days, becasue it's quicker or more convenient than using OCtranspo, will switch to using OCtranspo because it will be more convenient and cheaper than driving and parking.

Also, at the end of game, the bulk of people leaving the CTC hop onto the 417 and head East into Ottawa, but with an Arena at Lebreton, people will leave games and go in all directions, not just East.


As I've mentioned before, I live in the Greenboro area of Ottawa, so taking my car to the CTC is quicker, more convenient but more expensive than using OCtranpo. But when I go to Bluesfest, it's the opposite, and would be for an Arena at Lebreton.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

I'm just baffled so many people think that there is a possibility of this happening with the NCC involved.

The city can't get a mile of railroad track on their land, but we're going to build a stadium on it lol. Never gonna happen. We might as well wish for the tooth fairy to magically place prime Gretzky on our team as well.

The NCC will protect the Ottawa River with it's life - anything that's not riverfront is open to discussion, which is why other parts of the LRT project that infringe on NCC land (closer to Lincoln Fields) were green-lighted. I personally think that turning the waterfront into the Ottawa River Museum, rather than a place where people can interact with it to some extent (beyond crappy beaches, the World's Narrowest Bike Path, and precisely one place to sit and have a drink) is only slightly less stupid than not protecting it at all, but that intense level of protection doesn't seem to apply to sports further off shore.

I do, however, find it interesting that the NCC has backed off a little in trying to build and institution of "national significance", which is what led them to expropriate and bulldoze the Flats 50 years ago. Perhaps after half a century of contaminated land with weeds popping out of it, they've come to realize that there is no perfect plan, and are willing to let it be part of the city again.

 

[Micklebot]

The Canadian political system is really heavily based on the party model. It wouldn't be able to function as it does currently without the same high level of party discipline. MPs looking to better their constituencies learn this relatively quickly upon arriving in Ottawa.

That's kind of the problem; The current model lends itself to one man with all the power. Party affiliation tightens his power over elected officials. combined with a first past the post system, we get a scenario where representation of what the voters want becomes less a less important.

By removing the party affiliation (which was only added in 1970 I beleive) we increase accountability both on the member and on the PM.

Anyhow, not going to derail this any further; Baird pushing for something to improve his constituency is part of his job, so no problem with him doing so.

Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, but to me, central locations for an arena is a no brainer, and if it does come to fruition, it will likely lead to better transit infrastructure than what is already planned.

 

[BonkTastic]

Anyhow, not going to derail this any further; Baird pushing for something to improve his constituency is part of his job, so no problem with him doing so.

Fair enough.

I just hate seeing him fail so unbelievably badly at the main part of his job, I guess.

 

[coladin]

After all that infrastructure spent on the 417 to the CTC , they are going to leave? Not anytime soon I suppose but the problem with Ottawa is a lack of proper urban planning when they come up with major developments. This city has a tendency to build the homes first, then the roads to support it.

Anyways, while I like, not love, the idea of an arena at Lebreton, I doubt that the NCC will co-operate in any way, shape or form. It is "downtown" but there is nothing around it right now to make it a place to be, in the way that Lansdowne Live is an area that supports the stadium. Can they come up with something? I guess but anyone looking at what exists right now other than the beautiful War Museum, is an unimaginative condo complex, bathed in the colour of baby diarrhea no less, that could have been designed by a high school student. And you want these people to have a "vision" of Lebreton?

My vision, after the LRT is up and running, is an arena, underground parking, an aquarium, and another museum such as Science & Tech supported by a Lansdowne Live type of project. I support a tramline like what is at Disney, to bring people in to the area from Bayview.

 

[Jorge Garcia]

I call bs. Kanata has 100,000 people in it, Centretown has 550,000 people. What is the likelihood that there's more Sens fans in Kanata than downtown? Fans don't just move into the neighborhood because the arena's close.

550,000? That's remarkable, considering that the entire former city of Ottawa had all of 382,000. Centretown? Maybe half of that. So it's entirely possible that the western suburbs, of which Kanata is only a part, have far more CTC patrons than the central city has. Add in Nepean, the far west end of the old city, places like Stittsville, Richmond, Almonte, Carleton Place and West Carleton, and downtown looks like a pretty small part of the market.

 

[Engineer]

After all that infrastructure spent on the 417 to the CTC , they are going to leave? Not anytime soon I suppose but the problem with Ottawa is a lack of proper urban planning when they come up with major developments. This city has a tendency to build the homes first, then the roads to support it.

Kanata and Arnprior aren't going to just seize to exist.

The highway improvements are needed for much more than just the CTC.

 

[Engineer]

550,000? That's remarkable, considering that the entire former city of Ottawa had all of 382,000. Centretown? Maybe half of that. So it's entirely possible that the western suburbs, of which Kanata is only a part, have far more CTC patrons than the central city has. Add in Nepean, the far west end of the old city, places like Stittsville, Richmond, Almonte, Carleton Place and West Carleton, and downtown looks like a pretty small part of the market.

Why does your comparison stretch outside of Kanata, while the other side of the argument is limited to DT only?

To make your comparison fair, you should consider Gatineau, Orleans, Gloucester, South Ottawa as well.

 

[Micklebot]

550,000? That's remarkable, considering that the entire former city of Ottawa had all of 382,000. Centretown? Maybe half of that. So it's entirely possible that the western suburbs, of which Kanata is only a part, have far more CTC patrons than the central city has. Add in Nepean, the far west end of the old city, places like Stittsville, Richmond, Almonte, Carleton Place and West Carleton, and downtown looks like a pretty small part of the market.

This misunderstanding is likely partially my fault. I posted numbers for inside vs outside the greenbelt (which imo is more valuable to the conversation)

Ref: City of Ottawa official plan

Population projection | 2006 | 2011 | 2021 | 2031
Inside Greenbelt | 533,000 | 540,000 | 562,000 | 591,000
Outside Greenbelt, Urban | 252,000 | 291,000 | 367,000 | 432,000
Rural | 86,000 | 91,000 | 102,000 | 113,000
Total | 871,000 | 923,000 | 1,031,000 | 1,136,000

As I mentioned in my earlier post, these numbers completely omit Gatineau too.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

After all that infrastructure spent on the 417 to the CTC , they are going to leave? Not anytime soon I suppose but the problem with Ottawa is a lack of proper urban planning when they come up with major developments. This city has a tendency to build the homes first, then the roads to support it.

Anyways, while I like, not love, the idea of an arena at Lebreton, I doubt that the NCC will co-operate in any way, shape or form. It is "downtown" but there is nothing around it right now to make it a place to be, in the way that Lansdowne Live is an area that supports the stadium. Can they come up with something? I guess but anyone looking at what exists right now other than the beautiful War Museum, is an unimaginative condo complex, bathed in the colour of baby diarrhea no less, that could have been designed by a high school student. And you want these people to have a "vision" of Lebreton?

My vision, after the LRT is up and running, is an arena, underground parking, an aquarium, and another museum such as Science & Tech supported by a Lansdowne Live type of project. I support a tramline like what is at Disney, to bring people in to the area from Bayview.

It would appear that the Sens are involved exactly what you are suggesting - a broad-based, community development plan that includes a new arena and residential and commercial development. There might be more to it. The press release from the Sens indicated that they are actively exploring a new arena downtown and engagement with private businesses and community organizations. It's not just an arena proposal, but a much broader, more comprehensive plan to present to the NCR.

I think the NCR has changed. That was clear with the development of the condos by Claridge (let's hope they're not part of the bigger plan involving the arena) and the proposals they sought for a redeveloped waterfront on both the Gatineau and Ottawa sides.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I find it's a rarity that MPs look out for their constituencies these days. I think people have forgotten that their job is supposed to be represent their constituents first, and party second (imo).

I long for the day they remove party affiiliation from the ballet, and force voters to actually pay attention to who they are voting for. Terrible decision to include party names on the ballot imo. Can't see any positives in allowing voters to be lazy.

sry for getting off topic.

I personally cannot even really have a political discussion with someone who align's themselves with a colour (red,blue, orange) more so than actually looking at the issue(s) at hand. I always make sure to check the comment sections of poitical articles for this trend as it gives me a really good laugh to see how truly brainwashed to a "party" some are.

 

[coladin]

Kanata and Arnprior aren't going to just seize to exist.

The highway improvements are needed for much more than just the CTC.

I understand the need for highway improvements, the fact is though with every approval of a new subdivions, there is a scarcity of planning to service these homes, let alone the CTC. That is my point of the city not being proactive in providing the infrastructure for these communities that they gladly accept all the fees but fail to invest in the roads.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Now is the time to do this, while the area around CTC is still basically a wasteland. If any serious commercial or infrastructure investments happened around CTC, In think they would shackle the rink to Stittsville.

As it stands, I think the economic impact on Kanata/Stittsville of moving the team would be immaterial. A few rooms at the holiday inn and the Brookstreet, some pre game meals at the Centrum.

There is no synergy between the car dealerships, Tanger outlets and CTC now. It's the opposite. On gamedays, people are scared away from Tanger and the auto park on account of traffic.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Would be interested to hear of arguments if they exist from those that are not from the Kanata/West end area who are oppose to a downtown location.

 

[Sensored]

550,000? That's remarkable, considering that the entire former city of Ottawa had all of 382,000. Centretown? Maybe half of that. So it's entirely possible that the western suburbs, of which Kanata is only a part, have far more CTC patrons than the central city has. Add in Nepean, the far west end of the old city, places like Stittsville, Richmond, Almonte, Carleton Place and West Carleton, and downtown looks like a pretty small part of the market.

I meant to say Central Ottawa as opposed to the neighborhood of Centretown (obviously that doesn't have 550,000 people). Anyways regardless of the exact numbers 400,000 vs 550,000. I was trying to draw attention to the "Kanata has the most Sens fans" bs statement.

 

[sanityplease]

Would be interested to hear of arguments if they exist from those that are not from the Kanata/West end area who are oppose to a downtown location.

Probably aren't many...

But, that's only because everyone not in the west has the best case scenario in their minds.

City planners are not going to allow any major development @ Lebreton without the overall plan providing improved direct access to the 417 (Price tag for a project like that: 100-200 million, if all goes well). Adding a new arena, further infrastructure improvements & some other new projects in the area, will cost you north of a billion dollars. That's assuming that the other projects aren't all that grand.

Katz group is spending $2.4 billion on 18 acres in downtown Edmonton, they'll spend another $1-2 billion by the time the other 8 acres are finished.

Overall development @ Lebreton is a good idea, but it should have been planned BEFORE the LR project design & the construction of the Palladium.

 

[aragorn]

It will be interesting to see where the money comes to build a new arena. I just don't see Melnyk paying top dollar to build a new arena, unless he also gets a casino with it or some new revenue stream to help pay for it. And how much are municipal, provincial & federal governments willing to pay public funds towards a sports arena for a rich NHL team & millionaire players? While it could be looked at as a city revitalization program than should help the city & businesses, the public could look at it a little different as an excuse to raise taxes. Should be interesting.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Keep up the great work folks. I love when I return to the O-Dub and see what wonderful things you have all done, and what beautiful changes have been made. I look forward to seeing Landsdowne next time...

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It will be interesting to see where the money comes to build a new arena. I just don't see Melnyk paying top dollar to build a new arena, unless he also gets a casino with it or some new revenue stream to help pay for it. And how much are municipal, provincial & federal governments willing to pay public funds towards a sports arena for a rich NHL team & millionaire players? While it could be looked at as a city revitalization program than should help the city & businesses, the public could look at it a little different as an excuse to raise taxes. Should be interesting.

Melnyk will be part of a group of investors: the idea is that it isn't going to the arena, it's going to be the arena and a bunch of other stuff

This isn't going to be him going in alone

I doub he'll get much public money if any, the Citizen mentioned that maybe the NCC gives the land which would be a huge help but that's all I think is possible: Watson said he wouldn't give any money, Ontario is broke and dysfunctional and the Federal Government has bigger fish to fry

 

[Sens Rule]

This is a stupid pipedream. Melnyk is broke. No way this is going to happen. This is a powerplay to give him a Casino... And that is unlikely to happen.

Only happens if we get an owner who is not broke before something else big is slated to be built there.

 

[arglebargle]

This is a stupid pipedream. Melnyk is broke. No way this is going to happen. This is a powerplay to give him a Casino... And that is unlikely to happen.

Only happens if we get an owner who is not broke before something else big is slated to be built there.

How could this possibly be a powerplay to get a casino? That doesn't make any sense.

Melnyk probably wants to build a stadium downtown, and rightly sees that the only way he's going to be able to afford it is by doing it as part of a consortium or something. That's what's happening here.

 

[operasen]

Melnyk will be part of a group of investors: the idea is that it isn't going to the arena, it's going to be the arena and a bunch of other stuff

This isn't going to be him going in alone

I doub he'll get much public money if any, the Citizen mentioned that maybe the NCC gives the land which would be a huge help but that's all I think is possible: Watson said he wouldn't give any money, Ontario is broke and dysfunctional and the Federal Government has bigger fish to fry

I would hope the NCC does not give away some of the most coveted land in the city. Why would they do that - to be nice? - I hope not. Lansdowne group couldn't get it. Governments froze the Quebec City arena for years with a no money statement. Giving the land from the NCC would stray against that decision.