News Article: Ottawa Senators Organization Actively Considering Building Arena At Lebreton Flats

[The Lewler]

But this isn't about you, it's about the team getting to the people they need to get to in order to grow the brand

These are the kinds of moves that could help with the budget issues; not fix them but help

Obviously.

I never said it was a bad idea, I said the idea of commuting time is overblown in my opinion as you have plenty of people coming from an hour+ out in the Ottawa Valley and surrounding area for each and every game.

 

[Minister of Offence]

It will never happen. Melnyk (and possibly other partners) will be looking for big subsidies which they should not get.

Sounds like they'll have some significant political support.

Everyone knows the team should end up downtown at some point and I highly doubt an opportunity nearly as good presents itself in the next 50 years.

Wouldn't be wrong to say this may be the on,y shot.

It'll get serious.

 

[arglebargle]

1. new site must have indoor walkable access to transit (go train and light rail), with indoor waiting areas for transit.
2. downtown areas work only with park and ride with the capability to
handle 20,000 people leaving at once.
3. transit must also connect to the quebec side ie via GO train and updated light rail links
4. roads to the location from the 417 need to be upgraded to handle increased traffic.
5. eb eddy site needs to be rebuilt with pubs/night clubs/errr .. entertainment a la montreal, people have to have a place very near to go to before/after game
6. a hotel must be built on the site directly, "walking in -30C during the winter uphill to hotels downtown does not work
7. walking in winter with -30C to the market just does not work
8. a multistory parking garage will be required

I think a lot of people are severely underestimating the existing infrastructure around that area. More than 100,000 people commute to work downtown every weekday. 20,000 people for a hockey game isn't a problem, especially considering traffic to the game will be going in the opposite direction from rush hour traffic. The Downtown core is usually mostly emptied out by around 6:00-6:30.

On top of that there would be room around the stadium for parking. Perhaps not the exact same amount as at CTC currently but a lot more people would walk/park downtown/take public transit.

Pubs and restaurants will spring up. If you build it, they will come (unless you build it in Kanata. Then you get car dealerships).

Why does it need an onsite hotel? A lot of visiting teams already stay downtown with the current set up.

Walking outside would be a dealbreaker if we suddenly replaced everyone here with residents of Florida, but otherwise it's not a big deal. It gets cold here, but we're talking about some games in January and February and people are used to it. Montreal, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Calgary all have similar or worse weather and don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

 

[StittsvilleJames]

There are a number of key major players already on board to make this happen on multiple sides of this opportunity, but in the end, there are two major threats to the deal happening:

1/ The first is Melynk. He brings substantial negative PR value to the entire affair, and needs to stay in the background. This really has to be about Ottawa developers and the NCC bringing the Sens downtown, rather than Melynk riding in to save the day by bringing the Sens there based on his own ambitions and ideas. In the end, there is municipal, provincial and federal $'s that can help offset this building, but a lot of this will shrink or disappear if Melynk is the face of the deal. Local business needs to be front and center, and while Melynk can be part of this group, he needs to be in the background, if at all. Optically, the government $'s and rebates can't seem to be just offsetting the cost of a billionaire to get a new stadium - and even worse, a billionaire who doesn't happen to live here. And there is always ample $'s to offset for buildings like this to be built if presented and structured properly. Probably a 1 in 3 chance the deal dies because of Melynk being too involved. Ego has killed bigger deals than this before.

2/ The second risk is deal structure. In the end, the Sens can't really own the stadium. Oh, they can own perhaps a minority stake, and also get a ridiculously sweet heart deal on rent for decades that will essentially amount to getting their cake and eating it too (getting a rink with out having to pay for it), but Melynk has a super deal now in owning the building, parking and all of the infrastructure around Senators revenue. They will quite simply have to give the majority of this up, and focus on making $'s as a hockey team. The deal will still make profitability very achievable with a lot less debt to pay back as well, but philosophically, Melynk might hate giving up control of the building, which could prove a problem. I'd say the Sens group will look at the deal in the end, and realize it still makes sense and can't be done on their own, but perhaps the issue of their stake in the whole deal will be a deal breaker. I'd say 1 chance in 10, give or take.

So I'd guess it's close to 50/50 it happens, and probably better chance it does, than doesn't. But lots that can go sideways. First step is this release to test the fan reaction and get the conversations started.

If The Euge is counting on municipal money, then he is going to be sorely disappointed. Jimbo today said he wouldn't support a dime of public money going to this. And the casino affair has already proven Jim is not going to be bullied by the Sens.

Also, the province is broke, and likely will not contribute anything. Any party that promises public funding for this would be committing political suicide, considering the provinces debt and ongoing deficit. I don't see any appetite at Queens Park for this.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Watson didn't seem too thrilled with this comment about the CTC and the Senators being attractive for businesses in the west end

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

If The Euge is counting on municipal money, then he is going to be sorely disappointed. Jimbo today said he wouldn't support a dime of public money going to this. And the casino affair has already proven Jim is not going to be bullied by the Sens.

Also, the province is broke, and likely will not contribute anything. Any party that promises public funding for this would be committing political suicide, considering the provinces debt and ongoing deficit. I don't see any appetite at Queens Park for this.

This. City's not scared of playing hardball and laying down the law. Shame, it really does add millions into the local economy.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

This. City's not scared of playing hardball and laying down the law. Shame, it really does add millions into the local economy.

Too many different special interest groups in this city.

We all saw how the "Friends" went crazy with Lansdowne. And that was an area that desperately needed an anchor to bring in consumer dollars.

Imagine the artsy crowd if a sporting arena gets public dollars? Or the "the traffic makes my home downtown way too loud! fix it" crowd?

That's why I think the best bet is to bundle a new Science & Tech museum along with drastically expanded LRT plans in with a new arena. That way, you give some of those other groups some new toys to play with and keep them quiet. And you have a much better chance of getting federal dollars when we start talking about transportation and cultural infrastructure, instead of just a luxury item like an arena.

 

[Samboni]

I think that the challenges for the Sens to acquire the property are insurmountable. Eugene will try to use as little of his money as possible but their is no appetite to spend public money on arenas. One just has to look back when the they were trying to build the existing arena, and the interchange - what a fiasco that was! I see the same thing happening here, only worse. I predict a lot of anger, betrayal, and hard feelings.

Sam

 

[Ohhh Franco]

Anyone here hear Bruce Firestone in The Drive this afternoon? He seemed fairly confident that Melnyk, Leeder and the NCC could all get along and get this done. He's obviously pretty well connected and is still heavily involved in the real estate game, so...

 

[pepty]

Huge potential with the Domtar lands development too. You have thousands of new residents within a few hundred meters, some of which will be ticket buyers, many of which will want access to retail and entertainment. It's really a nice opportunity to create something akin to Foxboro or what the Oilers are doing with Rogers arena

I can imagine that if this goes according to plan along with the development at Lebreton that there will be a lot of developers who would love to partner with the Sens. This could be transformative for Ottawa and the whole area but...

The NCC could foul everything up in any number of ways and there would be too many NIMBY groups to count.Friends of This and Friends of That all having hysterics if they think their view of the river is blocked or if they suspect there will be noise or traffic.

And then there is loose cannon Eugene who feels the city owes him something after not getting his casino and soccer team

 

[Ohhh Franco]

Is it possible that the Sens have been working with such a tight budget and that Uncle Euge is trying to pay off debt as quickly as possible because this is in the works? Instead of spending an extra $5-8M a year on the roster, it's being spent on consultants/architects/planners?

 

[pepty]

Is it possible that the Sens have been working with such a tight budget and that Uncle Euge is trying to pay off debt as quickly as possible because this is in the works? Instead of spending an extra $5-8M a year on the roster, it's being spent on consultants/architects/planners?

Anything is possible but that sounds like wishful thinking
.
I haven't heard anything about Eugene paying off debts, until very recently he was
piling even more debt on the team possibly to bail out his other enterprises.

 

[Ohhh Franco]

Anything is possible but that sounds like wishful thinking
.
I haven't heard anything about Eugene paying off debts, until very recently he was
piling even more debt on the team possibly to bail out his other enterprises.

Yeah, just thought I'd put it out there though. He and Leeder obviously are showing a bit of foresight and vision, so maybe there's been a bigger plan than we all thought. I'm sure Eugene knows there won't be much, if any, public money tossed his way for this adventure.

 

[FireMurray]

My first thought is that this will do wonders for the atmosphere at Sens games, granted ticket prices do not rise exponentially. I think they certainly will with a new arena, that's inevitable, but nothing nearing ACC-nightmare prices. Aside from the city-planning considerations that have been touched on already here, this would mean a lot for this franchise in terms of growing it's fan-base. Having an arena downtown will almost guarantee that the Sens will get to tap into a much younger demographic.

Also wondering if having arena so close to the River may mean the Sens can strengthen their appeal in Gatineau? Any thoughts on this? Have no idea, but it seems natural considering the proximity.

 

[FireMurray]

yes some stadiums are built far from city center, due to cost and transportation capabilities

http://imgur.com/OCrusPz
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--EMZvOU-J--/fummmhmfgapyjfhltgth.png

How many of these places have undeveloped public land right in the middle of their downtown core? I'd venture none and they'd probably kill to have our scenario has on their hands.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Firestone said today Toronto subway moves 30,000 people an hour, OC transpo 2500 an hour. Also said parking for about 500 cars at Le Breton. Not sure if Melynk not owning the building would be a deal breaker or not. I kind of think so.

 

[The Lewler]

Is it possible that the Sens have been working with such a tight budget and that Uncle Euge is trying to pay off debt as quickly as possible because this is in the works? Instead of spending an extra $5-8M a year on the roster, it's being spent on consultants/architects/planners?

When have you ever known Eugene Melnyk to be able to keep quiet about anything he's involved in for any significant length of time?

 

[Quo]

^I took some notes on Firestone's spot on TSN1200 earlier today.

Begins around the 15min mark: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/podcast-the-drive-hour-3-1.156780

Notes:

- What were your first thoughts hearing that this might happen? The current plan of development by the NCC for Lebreton is unimaginative; thinks that we can do better, thinks moving the arena is a good place to start.

- What would happen to the West-Terrace plan that he initiated by building the arena in Kanata 20 years ago? Bruce is not concerned. Large demand for commercial space in the West-End anyway. His advice is to re-purpose the CTC into a mall of some sort.

- Summary of options during the 90's: they had six sites they were looking at -->

1. Lebreton ;
2. Landsdown;
3. Casino De Lac Leamy grounds;
4. South Keys ;
5. Orleans ;
6. Kanata

Top three were Lebreton, the Lac Leamy location and Kanata. Lac Leamy was disqualified because at the time there were two teams playing out of QC and the potential fanbase in Ottawa frowned on a third. Lebreton, he repeated, the NCC were not on the same page, public transit was deficient. He believes, with the new light rail in development, the opportunity to make it successful is much greater.

- Question: Is moving to Lebreton needed to keep the team in Ottawa? Starting this process is basically acknowledging that the Kanata location is garbage and would force ownership to re-sell the idea of Kanata if they fail to secure NCC approval. Very good question. Yes that is a concern. Could have a dampening effect on further development in the short term. Nevertheless, believes that moving the arena downtown is what's best for the next generation of hockey fans in the capital. Did not get into specifics. Sometimes a bit of risk involved in securing long term viability.

- Had the arena been built downtown to begin with the team would have never worked in his opinion. No parking, no transit. LRT is the ticket to making it work.

- Is the NCC open to retail development that would surely accompany an arena? Where is the parking going to be? Again, LRT is the ticket re: parking. Most you'd have is around 500 parking spots. As for retail development, he thinks that the NCC has "a better idea on how to build a successful community than they did 20-25 years ago." Optimistic that the outlook of the NCC has changed enough that it would work today.

- First step to making things better regardless of location is finishing LRT. Understandably, he's disgusted with Ottawa transit setup.

- How pressing is this decision for Eugene and the Sens? Arena close to 25 years old. Sens have hired a management firm out of Boston that specializes in arena renovations. Which way should they go? These teams need ancillary revenues. No secret that his original plan called for a plethora (clubs, hotel, casino) but never came to fruition. That's still needed today. Quotes popular Yogi Berra malapropism: "If you come to a fork in the road, take it."

- What are the other proposals in competition? No idea but strongly believe that any possible 3rd party bidder on the site would want to integrate the Senators plans for Lebreton in some shape or form.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

....Orleans? They really considered Orleans?

Oh god, the trip from Hawkesbury would've been sooooooo much better all these years.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

If The Euge is counting on municipal money, then he is going to be sorely disappointed. Jimbo today said he wouldn't support a dime of public money going to this. And the casino affair has already proven Jim is not going to be bullied by the Sens.

Also, the province is broke, and likely will not contribute anything. Any party that promises public funding for this would be committing political suicide, considering the provinces debt and ongoing deficit. I don't see any appetite at Queens Park for this.

Most public money comes in the former of tax rebates and also tax levies applied to local businesses. So none of the $'s are actually the cities (or citiznes per se), but the city would collect extra fees on behalf of the Sens and re-distribute. That way you and I don't pay anything towards the rink, but a bunch of the local condos and businesses directly in that area benefit from the Sens pay. It can work quite effectively and generate a ton of $'s, from what I understand, although I'm not an expert.

 

[Knave]

I mean I doubt it but you can always dream.

 

[danishh]

public money, per say, will not be part of this.

Melnyk will be looking for a low/no rent for the land from the NCC and ancillary revenue from the rest of the development. It's highly likely the sens will be a partner with a real estate development firm bidding on the project, and a portion of the expected profit from that may be used to finance the arena. The remainder of the arena cost (probably $400-$500M) will be financed against the sens equity, just as the palladium was. Why are the developers going to accept this? Because this is a great opportunity to make a whole lot of money building condos and whoever partners with the sens has a leg up on winning the project given the only other viable institution would be the science and tech museum, a project that likely went out the window with the recent federal government decision to refurbish the St. Laurent location.

Basically, it will be the landsdowne development all over again. In fact, expect the developers to be the same group from landsdowne/OSEG.

 

[Bileur]

....Orleans? They really considered Orleans?

Oh god, the trip from Hawkesbury would've been sooooooo much better all these years.

Somewhere off the 17 I think was the quote.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Strip malls and car dealerships aren't exactly celebrated forms of growth.

Can't argue that, but I guess you haven't noticed all the new home construction going on in plain view of the CTC.

 

[pepty]

public money, per say, will not be part of this.


Basically, it will be the landsdowne development all over again. In fact, expect the developers to be the same group from landsdowne/OSEG.

That would be so great. Then they could buy out Eugene.