Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 3)

[sirius67fan]

I had the top four staying in the same positions; ‘67s, NB, Colts, Petes. Without significant injuries or suspensions, I can’t see anything but equal or higher W% for the top four
NB has played most games and road games, so they could gain some ground on the ‘67s by playing the BUG less often.
I disagree a bit on ideal playoff scoring. I like the idea of a strong shut down 3rd line. I’m not nearly 100% convinced Dubois can skate with the other big 3 teams top lines, but Stillman and Meelee are ideal imo. And I think Purdeller can work himself into a half time-share with Dubois in the top 9.

The top four are just really good teams. The ‘67s could finish 0.800 and not be my playoff favourite. That might change if J.Beck has a MVP type second half though.

Yeah will be a dogfight ...after the first round. I've gotten to hate the first round in the O. Most 5-8 teams are cannon fodder. Exception might be the west this year though.

 

[dirty12]

Yeah will be a dogfight ...after the first round. I've gotten to hate the first round in the O. Most 5-8 teams are cannon fodder. Exception might be the west this year though.

The 4-5 series is usually pretty good; Colts-Steelheads was good. The colts would have been a much tougher opponent for Hamilton than NB if Clarke and Guzda and Foerster were fit to play.
A bit ridiculous in the east this year as six teams are pretty much insignificant. The playoffs will be awesome, but …

The finish to the regular season in the west is much more interesting. I will hope the Spits & Sting can’t meet until the conference final.

 

[OMG67]

I had the top four staying in the same positions; ‘67s, NB, Colts, Petes. Without significant injuries or suspensions, I can’t see anything but equal or higher W% for the top four
NB has played most games and road games, so they could gain some ground on the ‘67s by playing the BUG less often.
I disagree a bit on ideal playoff scoring. I like the idea of a strong shut down 3rd line. I’m not nearly 100% convinced Dubois can skate with the other big 3 teams top lines, but Stillman and Meelee are ideal imo. And I think Purdeller can work himself into a half time-share with Dubois in the top 9.

The top four are just really good teams. The ‘67s could finish 0.800 and not be my playoff favourite. That might change if J.Beck has a MVP type second half though.

To me, Dubois and the slightly above average D on Peterborough are going to be their Achilles heel starting in the 2nd round of the playoffs. They do have a good goalie though and if he gets hot and makes up for the defence, they could be fine enough. And, when I say D, I mean own zone coverage. They are fine distributors for the most part. They will get the puck to the forwards.

I think the key to having a third line shutdown is the centre and that is where I am not sure it is ideal. I see that line, as constructed, as a 3rd line secondary scoring option that doesn’t match up against Ottawa and North Bay. I think that is exactly where they will be exposed. They can get away with that without issue in the regular season and first round but it’s going to be tough for them after that. Even if they redistribute the wingers to try to balance the lines, the issue still is Dubois at Centre. h/e’s not a capable 3rd centre on a Championship calibre team. Ottawa would likely have the same issue with Gardiner if he remained in that spot. Fine for the Regular season but at 17 may have a hard time. And Gardiner is a superior player to Dubois regardless of age.

Relying heavily on two lines can work if those two lines both find a way to be productive every game But I don’t think that is realistic. Last night is a small snapshot of what I am talking about against the stronger teams. It is only one game so don’t take that as gospel by any means but it shows that they rely heavily on those two lines when the competition is tougher.

I know it was a different level of opponent but Ottawa had every skater in their lineup as a PLUS against Kingston on Wednesday. Their balance is something that will be tough for Peterborough. North Bay is better suited to combat the balanced depth on Ottawa as long as they can remain consistent. They have a tendency of getting a little out of their system now and then Which usually results in more turnovers in bad spots on the ice. Speedy teams will exploit that.

 

[OMG67]

The 4-5 series is usually pretty good; Colts-Steelheads was good. The colts would have been a much tougher opponent for Hamilton than NB if Clarke and Guzda and Foerster were fit to play.
A bit ridiculous in the east this year as six teams are pretty much insignificant. The playoffs will be awesome, but …

The finish to the regular season in the west is much more interesting. I will hope the Spits & Sting can’t meet until the conference final.

This is so accurate. The bottom six in the East post-deadline will be hard to watch when they play the tougher teams. However, Kingston could be similar to what they were because of the additions they made and not truly losing Wright to get Miedema. They may be ok. Same with Missy. I could see those two teams with some wins against the top teams in the right situations. Sudbury has the ability to pull out a performance. They came close to beating NB Wednesday. But, expecting any sort of consistency to the competition will be almost impossible.

But, even if some of the teams are similar, the reality is they are playing teams that have improved at the top of the Conference. It creates a bigger gap than was there previous. That will show.

 

[beastintheeast]

I had the top four staying in the same positions; ‘67s, NB, Colts, Petes. Without significant injuries or suspensions, I can’t see anything but equal or higher W% for the top four
NB has played most games and road games, so they could gain some ground on the ‘67s by playing the BUG less often.
I disagree a bit on ideal playoff scoring. I like the idea of a strong shut down 3rd line. I’m not nearly 100% convinced Dubois can skate with the other big 3 teams top lines, but Stillman and Meelee are ideal imo. And I think Purdeller can work himself into a half time-share with Dubois in the top 9.

The top four are just really good teams. The ‘67s could finish 0.800 and not be my playoff favourite. That might change if J.Beck has a MVP type second half though.

i would coounter that beck does pot have to be MVP level for this team to win. Right now I think we hve 3 number 2 lines. that to me is beter than having a top line. Having one line that dominates means that teams have 1 line to worry about. The present system that Cameron has is better in that you can not key on any one line to stop the team

 

[OMG67]

i would coounter that beck does pot have to be MVP level for this team to win. Right now I think we hve 3 number 2 lines. that to me is beter than having a top line. Having one line that dominates means that teams have 1 line to worry about. The present system that Cameron has is better in that you can not key on any one line to stop the team

I will go one step further. I think Morrison with Beck makes a combo that is a bonafide #1 line. It doesn’t matter who plays on the off wing with them.

If and when the players ever get back into the lineup, the Pinelli-Rohrer-Boucher line (38 goals combined, even with Boucher at 17 games) would also be considered a #1 line, although far from a league leader. I know a lot of teams in the OHL would feel fortunate to have that line as their #1.

Tolnai and Stonehouse make a pretty good duo as well. They have 37 goals Between them.

IMO, if you want to be nit picky, I would agree we have a 1st line and two 2nd lines. But even the 4th line using only Gardiner and Barlas have 24 goals. Their winger will likely not be significant in the scoring department. It would be hard to classify them as a 4th line.

Not to mention 30 goals from the defence and that is not including the addition of Mintyukov and his 16 goals.

But, I do agree with your underlying point that the team has a significant amount of scoring depth from all sources. Ottawa can come at you from everywhere. The depth is as good as I have ever seen. But, we do need what you would consider a bonafide #1 Line and I do feel we have that with Morrison and Beck, probably with Foster when everyone is back.

The best part of all of this is we can mobilize replacements for injury. Dever has done well with 11 points in 20 games when he’s gotten spot duty. Sirman and Mews can both move to forward for spot duty. Gardiner can move to the third line centre position if needed. I think we have all bases covered.

 

[PuckStop75]

And I think that second point is the caveat to all of this. We want to win a championship. If we do, Beck will be a big part of it. That alone will likely preclude him from coming back.

For those that suggest he is too fragile or small or doesn’t carry enough weight, NHL teams trend toward developing players directly in their system as soon as possible. Although I agree he may benefit from a return to the OHL for an OA year, play the year, pack on some weight etc, the reality is the NHL teams don’t tend to do it.

At 5'11/162lbs he needs to mature physically before he will be ready for the next level.

I really hope he is able to put together a good second half and playoff, the team will need it.

 

[OMG67]

At 5'11/162lbs he needs to mature physically before he will be ready for the next level.

I really hope he is able to put together a good second half and playoff, the team will need it.

It’s a good point, no doubt. I think his kidney injury took a toll on him. Guys that dedicate the summer can usually gain a solid 8-10 pounds but he may have a very short summer. Still only gets him to 170. he probably needs to get to 185 to be successful.

If anything, the weight will keep him from getting signed. I still think if they sign him, they will take over his development and training. I don’t think they will leave it up to the OHL. That said, Ottawa has a great program in that regard so it may be more possible than the average.

 

[Blasty15]

I will counter-argue that.

There are a few things Jack needs to accomplish first. He will need to score at a 100 point pace the remainder of this season which means he will need to finish with around 60 points even after missing 25 games. Then he will need to score 2 points per game in the playoffs, win the Playoff MVP and the Championship. Then he will need to go on to be a points leader in the Memorial Cup. Then he will need to play a half season next year on a bottom dweller team with one scoring line and still be in the top 5 in scoring.

If he can do all of that, then he may be able to garner the same sort of return. However, there is still the issue of him being a winger and not a centre.

I think a more reasonable comparison based on what I would project Beck to accomplish would be the Maksimovich trade. That basically ended up being two 2nds, a 13th and rights to Austen Swankler (Non-report). Swankler did report to Erie the following season for one year and scored 45 points. If it were a picks deal then either two 2nds and a 4th or one 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th. I think that is more fair unless Beck does end up being “the man” league wide the remainder of this season and the first half of next. I like Beck a lot but my expectations aren’t that high.

Then toss in the fact that if Beck were to accomplish what Morrison did the remainder of this year, he will be signed and I highly doubt he would be sent back for an OA season. But that is an entirely different discussion.


I will agree with Blasty that the healthy part isn’t an issue. Two freak incidents. I would toss that more up to bad luck.

If it were an issue with a back, knee or shoulder, then I would be cautious. For example, I am more worried about Boucher then Beck.

Fair assessment for sure & you know I like your input on mostly all matters.

You're correct about the production, which remains to be unseen. Although, I don't think 60 is out of the realm of possibilities by any stretch. C vs. W is a valuable point as well but it will ultimately come down to team needs too. Although, Cs still generally do require a higher bargain.

Let's not forget Morrison played alongside Mason McTavish and Avery Hayes for that playoff MVP. He certainly was deserving but also had some great firepower at his side. Now for Beck's case (I'm not saying he will be playoff MVP or anything) but he has a significant chance to showcase himself playing along side one of the league's best.. what he does with that opportunity will ultimately come down to him. Their actions speak louder than our words.

We all know Ottawa is poised for a run of some sort and he will need to be a key factor but will likely attain some deep playoff experience at the worst. I was making the assumption that if he were to return, it would follow a lengthy playoff run where he would need to be a key contributor.

But then again, you're right. If he does the above and Ottawa goes far, he's healthy and produces + plays his 200-foot game, he'll likely be signed and this conversation ends then and there.

As for Boucher, I agree and hope the current issue is more precautionary and maintenance-based as they're not really in any dire need for him to return soon. Playoffs are the key priority so I'd rather wait an extra couple days or whatever he needs to have him back at full health ready to go come playoff time.

 

[NoQuit67s]

I will go one step further. I think Morrison with Beck makes a combo that is a bonafide #1 line. It doesn’t matter who plays on the off wing with them.

If and when the players ever get back into the lineup, the Pinelli-Rohrer-Boucher line (38 goals combined, even with Boucher at 17 games) would also be considered a #1 line, although far from a league leader. I know a lot of teams in the OHL would feel fortunate to have that line as their #1.

Tolnai and Stonehouse make a pretty good duo as well. They have 37 goals Between them.

IMO, if you want to be nit picky, I would agree we have a 1st line and two 2nd lines. But even the 4th line using only Gardiner and Barlas have 24 goals. Their winger will likely not be significant in the scoring department. It would be hard to classify them as a 4th line.

Not to mention 30 goals from the defence and that is not including the addition of Mintyukov and his 16 goals.

But, I do agree with your underlying point that the team has a significant amount of scoring depth from all sources. Ottawa can come at you from everywhere. The depth is as good as I have ever seen. But, we do need what you would consider a bonafide #1 Line and I do feel we have that with Morrison and Beck, probably with Foster when everyone is back.

The best part of all of this is we can mobilize replacements for injury. Dever has done well with 11 points in 20 games when he’s gotten spot duty. Sirman and Mews can both move to forward for spot duty. Gardiner can move to the third line centre position if needed. I think we have all bases covered.

Also, last I remember, there are 5 players on the ice for most of the game, and at least 1 or 2 Dmen on special teams and 3 on 3 overtime.
As much as other team's board members like to point out that their 1st and 2nd forward lines are stronger than Ottawa's, where Ottawa is underestimated is, we not only have 3 really good forward lines, and a very solid fourth, we have TWO elite defense pairings now. It takes all five players on the ice to create offense and score goals.
As it has been stated before, Matier and Minty are two of the elite best in the league and can be on the ice for 45-50 minutes a game, supporting the offense, and shutting down the opposition.
I will take our 5 versus their 5 players on the ice all day long...

 

[dirty12]

To me, Dubois and the slightly above average D on Peterborough are going to be their Achilles heel starting in the 2nd round of the playoffs. They do have a good goalie though and if he gets hot and makes up for the defence, they could be fine enough. And, when I say D, I mean own zone coverage. They are fine distributors for the most part. They will get the puck to the forwards.

I think the key to having a third line shutdown is the centre and that is where I am not sure it is ideal. I see that line, as constructed, as a 3rd line secondary scoring option that doesn’t match up against Ottawa and North Bay. I think that is exactly where they will be exposed. They can get away with that without issue in the regular season and first round but it’s going to be tough for them after that. Even if they redistribute the wingers to try to balance the lines, the issue still is Dubois at Centre. h/e’s not a capable 3rd centre on a Championship calibre team. Ottawa would likely have the same issue with Gardiner if he remained in that spot. Fine for the Regular season but at 17 may have a hard time. And Gardiner is a superior player to Dubois regardless of age.

Relying heavily on two lines can work if those two lines both find a way to be productive every game But I don’t think that is realistic. Last night is a small snapshot of what I am talking about against the stronger teams. It is only one game so don’t take that as gospel by any means but it shows that they rely heavily on those two lines when the competition is tougher.

I know it was a different level of opponent but Ottawa had every skater in their lineup as a PLUS against Kingston on Wednesday. Their balance is something that will be tough for Peterborough. North Bay is better suited to combat the balanced depth on Ottawa as long as they can remain consistent. They have a tendency of getting a little out of their system now and then Which usually results in more turnovers in bad spots on the ice. Speedy teams will exploit that.

The only team speedy enough to possibly exploit any NB weakness would the Petes. The colts may be the worst matchup for the battalion from what I’ve seen.
Dubois’ lack of foot speed can be an issue. His size and face-off ability is a plus. In certain situations Purdeller can be line 3 RW with Stillman shifting to centre.
Let’s be honest, Garndiner is 4th line and rarely sees a shift if on the Petes.

i would coounter that beck does pot have to be MVP level for this team to win. Right now I think we hve 3 number 2 lines. that to me is beter than having a top line. Having one line that dominates means that teams have 1 line to worry about. The present system that Cameron has is better in that you can not key on any one line to stop the team

There is no one line team among the top four in the east. The Petes have two #1 lines.
The Petes have no all-star calibre D, but it’s solid overall with a bit of everything. The other Big 3 teams have stellar D with the Colts probably best overall.
The Cameron system much like Hunter’s is ideal during the regular season, particularly first half. But in the final four, it will be the best and healthiest that will prevail.

 

[OMG67]

Fair assessment for sure & you know I like your input on mostly all matters.

You're correct about the production, which remains to be unseen. Although, I don't think 60 is out of the realm of possibilities by any stretch. C vs. W is a valuable point as well but it will ultimately come down to team needs too. Although, Cs still generally do require a higher bargain.

Let's not forget Morrison played alongside Mason McTavish and Avery Hayes for that playoff MVP. He certainly was deserving but also had some great firepower at his side. Now for Beck's case (I'm not saying he will be playoff MVP or anything) but he has a significant chance to showcase himself playing along side one of the league's best.. what he does with that opportunity will ultimately come down to him. Their actions speak louder than our words.

We all know Ottawa is poised for a run of some sort and he will need to be a key factor but will likely attain some deep playoff experience at the worst. I was making the assumption that if he were to return, it would follow a lengthy playoff run where he would need to be a key contributor.

But then again, you're right. If he does the above and Ottawa goes far, he's healthy and produces + plays his 200-foot game, he'll likely be signed and this conversation ends then and there.

As for Boucher, I agree and hope the current issue is more precautionary and maintenance-based as they're not really in any dire need for him to return soon. Playoffs are the key priority so I'd rather wait an extra couple days or whatever he needs to have him back at full health ready to go come playoff time.

I’m not 100% sure but I am reasonably certain that MacT and Morrison centres different lines.

 

[OMG67]

The only team speedy enough to possibly exploit any NB weakness would the Petes. The colts may be the worst matchup for the battalion from what I’ve seen.
Dubois’ lack of foot speed can be an issue. His size and face-off ability is a plus. In certain situations Purdeller can be line 3 RW with Stillman shifting to centre.
Let’s be honest, Garndiner is 4th line and rarely sees a shift if on the Petes.

There is no one line team among the top four in the east. The Petes have two #1 lines.

If you think Gardiner would be the 4th line centre on the Petes and that Ottawa is slow, you need to watch more games. Gardiner would be easily the 3rd centre on the Petes if injected now and Ottawa is tenacious and have had success specifically because they skate and are all over the opposition when they have the puck. I think there is a gap in your assessment with respect to things like speed. You can’t skate with speed when you have players all over you and are disciplined in the neutral zone specifically causing havoc.

You don’t need to be speedy to counteract a speedy team. You just need to slow them down. Ottawa has done that all year.

 

[Rounder8]

Fair assessment for sure & you know I like your input on mostly all matters.

You're correct about the production, which remains to be unseen. Although, I don't think 60 is out of the realm of possibilities by any stretch. C vs. W is a valuable point as well but it will ultimately come down to team needs too. Although, Cs still generally do require a higher bargain.

Let's not forget Morrison played alongside Mason McTavish and Avery Hayes for that playoff MVP. He certainly was deserving but also had some great firepower at his side. Now for Beck's case (I'm not saying he will be playoff MVP or anything) but he has a significant chance to showcase himself playing along side one of the league's best.. what he does with that opportunity will ultimately come down to him. Their actions speak louder than our words.

We all know Ottawa is poised for a run of some sort and he will need to be a key factor but will likely attain some deep playoff experience at the worst. I was making the assumption that if he were to return, it would follow a lengthy playoff run where he would need to be a key contributor.

But then again, you're right. If he does the above and Ottawa goes far, he's healthy and produces + plays his 200-foot game, he'll likely be signed and this conversation ends then and there.

As for Boucher, I agree and hope the current issue is more precautionary and maintenance-based as they're not really in any dire need for him to return soon. Playoffs are the key priority so I'd rather wait an extra couple days or whatever he needs to have him back at full health ready to go come playoff time.

Morrison rarely played alonside MacTavish. Morrison/Humphrey/Hayes was rarely broken up.

MacTavish/Winterton/Thomas was kept together pretty much all the time as well.

 

[PuckStop75]

I’m not 100% sure but I am reasonably certain that MacT and Morrison centres different lines.

They did, the depth chart at centre was MacT, Morrison, Mysak and Sherk

 

[sirius67fan]

If you think Gardiner would be the 4th line centre on the Petes and that Ottawa is slow, you need to watch more games. Gardiner would be easily the 3rd centre on the Petes if injected now and Ottawa is tenacious and have had success specifically because they skate and are all over the opposition when they have the puck. I think there is a gap in your assessment with respect to things like speed. You can’t skate with speed when you have players all over you and are disciplined in the neutral zone specifically causing havoc.

You don’t need to be speedy to counteract a speedy team. You just need to slow them down. Ottawa has done that all year.

I'll even say as a team the 67's are faster than anybody I've seen in the O. London is close.

 

[OMG67]

I'll even say as a team the 67's are faster than anybody I've seen in the O. London is close.

I will qualify that the 67’s play at a fast pace. I am not sure their skaters are roadrunners. Some of the guys may be deceptively fast but I don’t think any of them are lighting up an all-star competition.

 

[OMG67]

Looks like Mayich is scratched. Horner and Sirman will flank Barlas on the fourth line. Marrelli plays tonight with Matier. Some interesting lineup twists with Rohrer and Boucher out with injury.

 

[mianjo]

 

[dirty12]

If you think Gardiner would be the 4th line centre on the Petes and that Ottawa is slow, you need to watch more games. Gardiner would be easily the 3rd centre on the Petes if injected now and Ottawa is tenacious and have had success specifically because they skate and are all over the opposition when they have the puck. I think there is a gap in your assessment with respect to things like speed. You can’t skate with speed when you have players all over you and are disciplined in the neutral zone specifically causing havoc.

You don’t need to be speedy to counteract a speedy team. You just need to slow them down. Ottawa has done that all year.

I stated that Gardiner would be 4th line and barely play for the Petes. While Gardiner would certainly not be a third line centre for the Petes, what I stated is probably wrong. It’s more likely he would have been used in a trade to build the roster the Petes wanted or one the players moved at the very end of trade deadline for picks. Not every decent player fits the needs of every team. Van Volsen is a top prospect and DeZoete is talented but both played 4th line and ultimately traded for Beck.
I think you read much too much into the Petes being speedy as I said nothing of the ‘67s being slow.

 

[OMG67]

I stated that Gardiner would be 4th line and barely play for the Petes. While Gardiner would certainly not be a third line centre for the Petes, what I stated is probably wrong. It’s more likely he would have been used in a trade to build the roster the Petes wanted or one the players moved at the very end of trade deadline for picks. Not every decent player fits the needs of every team. Van Volsen is a top prospect and DeZoete is talented but both played 4th line and ultimately traded for Beck.
I think you read much too much into the Petes being speedy as I said nothing of the ‘67s being slow.

When you say that only NB can keep up with the Petes speed, by implication it suggests that Ottawa can’t.

If Gardiner were parachuted into the Petes lineup right now, he’d be their 3rd line centre. Why? If the Petes had a few more picks, they’d have traded for a centre that would extend their scoring and make bette ruse of Stillman. Gardiner would, without any doubt, add more scoring and feed Stillman at a much higher level than Dubois.

If I am wrong about their strategy, why trade for Hayes? Shift Stillman to the 2nd line with Othmann and Beck. Go out and get a defensive specialist to match with Dubois and make it a true shut down line.

 

[OMG67]

LOL. What a crappy period.

I’m wondering why Mayich was made a healthy scratch? I know sometimes the coaching staff will tell the players to not take the win for granted but when the coaches sit out a top pairing D-Man as a healthy scratch, why would the players take the game seriously when the coach doesn’t? I don’t get it. The lineup wreaks of the attitude, “We got this one. Let’s just rest some guys and get some young guys some more ice.”

The boys can still pull it out if they get their heads out of the collective arses but holy, this was a piss poor period. Too much selfish play pressing on offence. That is not a normal occurrence for this team at all. Better get their heads back on straight And get back to what they do to be successful.

 

[44 95 plus tax]

Morrison injured now, too?

 

[mianjo]

67's down 3-0 after 1

 

[dirty12]

When you say that only NB can keep up with the Petes speed, by implication it suggests that Ottawa can’t.

I did not say that either I think it was if NB had a weakness that could be exploited with speed, it would be by the Petes.

If Gardiner were parachuted into the Petes lineup right now, he’d be their 3rd line centre. Why? If the Petes had a few more picks, they’d have traded for a centre that would extend their scoring and make bette ruse of Stillman. Gardiner would, without any doubt, add more scoring and feed Stillman at a much higher level than Dubois.

The Petes had one 7th overall picked 17 yr old in their top 9 all season. Meelee (18) and Dubois (19) alternated lines 3 & 4. DeZoete (18) & Purdeller (18) toiled on the 4th line almost exclusively.

Gardiner would not be a 3rd line player for the Petes no matter how much you want to believe that. The key ingredient for the Petes 3rd line is grit, not scoring

If I am wrong about their strategy, why trade for Hayes? Shift Stillman to the 2nd line with Othmann and Beck. Go out and get a defensive specialist to match with Dubois and make it a true shut down line.

You know the answer to that. Beck and Hayes were to get the most out of Othmann and create another excellent scoring line.

should be just about time for 2nd period action, and more Lardis & Panwar