Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 3)

[PuckStop75]

Yeah, I agree that it was a tricky process having limited teams to deal with while having specific wants that were not really available and then have to ask kids to waive NTCs.
I just wanted to add to that I don’t think Kingston missed out on anything by waiting for the right deal.

I will add that for the most part the 16-17 yr olds were pretty good about accepting trades to different teams and cities.

Seattle put the screws to Kingston when they held him until the end of WJC. If he was returned at the end of November like was done with MacTavish after his AHL games, not only does Kingston get ahead of Mississauga and Hamilton dumping half their teams on the market, but they also don't have to deal with the WJC fallout where he was made to look very much on par with a number of other junior/OHL players.

The first rounders being moved looked at the teams they were on and realized they were never going to be contenders again in their OHL window, makes perfect sense to roll the dice on another team.

 

[OMG67]

Seattle put the screws to Kingston when they held him until the end of WJC. If he was returned at the end of November like was done with MacTavish after his AHL games, not only does Kingston get ahead of Mississauga and Hamilton dumping half their teams on the market, but they also don't have to deal with the WJC fallout where he was made to look very much on par with a number of other junior/OHL players.

The first rounders being moved looked at the teams they were on and realized they were never going to be contenders again in their OHL window, makes perfect sense to roll the dice on another team.

Some quality points here.

 

[spits]

Why only 2,400 fans last night? Stacked team, would expect bigger crowds. I know it was a Wednesday but geez lol.

 

[NoQuit67s]

Why only 2,400 fans last night? Stacked team, would expect bigger crowds. I know it was a Wednesday but geez lol.

expect 5000+ Friday and Sunday...

 

[joescores]

2 words

Shit netminder

 

[ecraigs]

Why only 2,400 fans last night? Stacked team, would expect bigger crowds. I know it was a Wednesday but geez lol.

Just a fact of life in Ottawa, mid-week, lower attendance of school kids (no team groups). The team tried to standardize on Friday and Sundays, but the merchants in TD Place wanted the schedule more spread out. For those of us who were there in the 80s and 90s when 700 was a big Tuesday crowd, 2,400 seems big.

 

[44 95 plus tax]

Just a fact of life in Ottawa, mid-week, lower attendance of school kids (no team groups). The team tried to standardize on Friday and Sundays, but the merchants in TD Place wanted the schedule more spread out. For those of us who were there in the 80s and 90s when 700 was a big Tuesday crowd, 2,400 seems big.

Those were the days, no? Nobody invading your space. Walk right up to the concessions. All the staff knew your name. You could bug Percy to give you the signed program to get the prizes or go on the ice for the shootout. hearing the coaches loud and clear from across the ice. Good times.

 

[dirty12]

Seattle put the screws to Kingston when they held him until the end of WJC. If he was returned at the end of November like was done with MacTavish after his AHL games, not only does Kingston get ahead of Mississauga and Hamilton dumping half their teams on the market, but they also don't have to deal with the WJC fallout where he was made to look very much on par with a number of other junior/OHL players.

The first rounders being moved looked at the teams they were on and realized they were never going to be contenders again in their OHL window, makes perfect sense to roll the dice on another team.

What difference do you think it would have made if Seattle sent Wright to Kingston earlier; Akey or Bonk would have been made available?
Miedema & McCarthy, & 2, 3, 4, 4, 6 plus a couple of conditional picks is quite a haul imo; especially good for team insisting on a RD and wanting to look like a worthy host for the memorial cup.
It seems like a win for every one concerned to me. The next best return for a graduating player might be Martone, 2nd for Del Mastro.

 

[Square Corners]

What difference do you think it would have made if Seattle sent Wright to Kingston earlier; Akey or Bonk would have been made available?
Miedema & McCarthy, & 2, 3, 4, 4, 6 is quite a haul imo; especially good for team insisting on a RD and wanting to look like a worthy host for the memorial cup.
It seems like a win for every one concerned to me. The next best return for a graduating player might be Martone, 2nd for Del Mastro.

Its a good return if McCarthy comes. But thats not a for sure

 

[OMG67]

What difference do you think it would have made if Seattle sent Wright to Kingston earlier; Akey or Bonk would have been made available?
Miedema & McCarthy, & 2, 3, 4, 4, 6 is quite a haul imo; especially good for team insisting on a RD and wanting to look like a worthy host for the memorial cup.
It seems like a win for every one concerned to me. The next best return for a graduating player might be Martone, 2nd for Del Mastro.

I try to look at it as found money. Shane Wright was never coming back to Kingston. It was a solid split 50-50 whether he would even be sent back to Junior at all with Francis saying he is in the NHL to stay.

When I look at Kingston now, I can confidently say they aren’t much worse than they were going into the deadline. They are minus Arcuri, Hache, Stewart and Luddington. They picked up Uens, Miedima, potentially McCarthy, plus a slew of picks. They are marginally worse because one of the players they traded wasn’t on the team at all.

They won‘t fall off the cliff. They have a decent chance to finish 5th With a likely worse case scenario of 6th. They look decent in the eyes of the Bid Committee.

Overall, I think the Fronts came out of the deadline achieving a lot of what they needed to do overall. They get an A- in my books.

 

[beastintheeast]

Although I do agree that making Mac the starter next year would be ideal ( provided we have a decent back up), I don't think we would get the best return for Donoso in the summer. Need to wait a few months in the season so the "contending" teams assess what they need. Goalies moved in the summer historically don't go for much but some have gotten good returns approaching the deadline. Dipietro, Mason to name a few, don't want to compare Donoso to them but he's a very good goalie in this league.


I'm not counting on it but if he comes back we could get a Morrison like return for him next year!

There is no way that you can compare Beck to Morrison. Their skill level, what they have done and their physical fitness are completely off.

I do not see Ottawa making any trades before the draft.

Main reason is that we will still be in the playoffs at that time and you are not going to trade a player while you are playing for the league championship.

The 67\s will look for a Euro 17-year-old to bring in that can make a mark for the draft. Probably a D.

As to trading goalies, the only time you trade a goalie is after training camp or at the deadline.

You also want to make sure that the goalie you keep is ready for the OHL as a starter Cranley was a bust remember.

 

[OMG67]

There is no way that you can compare Beck to Morrison. Their skill level, what they have done and their physical fitness are completely off.

I do not see Ottawa making any trades before the draft.

Main reason is that we will still be in the playoffs at that time and you are not going to trade a player while you are playing for the league championship.

The 67\s will look for a Euro 17-year-old to bring in that can make a mark for the draft. Probably a D.

As to trading goalies, the only time you trade a goalie is after training camp or at the deadline.

You also want to make sure that the goalie you keep is ready for the OHL as a starter Cranley was a bust remember.

You can’t trade players at all before the draft. Only picks for picks.

Next year is a slight reset year. You run with MacKenzie regardless. If the following season is a competitive one, you need a full year out of MacKenzie to see if he will be a starter on a championship run. Trading Donoso at the deadline and giving Mac only half a season is probably not ideal. Plus you get a backup from the start of the season. You see if that player can be a competent backup.

 

[beastintheeast]

What difference do you think it would have made if Seattle sent Wright to Kingston earlier; Akey or Bonk would have been made available?
Miedema & McCarthy, & 2, 3, 4, 4, 6 plus a couple of conditional picks is quite a haul imo; especially good for team insisting on a RD and wanting to look like a worthy host for the memorial cup.
It seems like a win for every one concerned to me. The next best return for a graduating player might be Martone, 2nd for Del Mastro.

If Kingston had of been able to market him earlier they could have made a nice package of Arcuri and Wright.

Also, if they had him earlier, they would be at the top of the food chain not playing catch up after all the other players had been traded.

The problem I think, for a lot of teams was the unknown factor. Is he coming back to the OHL or is he not? When you add that to the equation teams, start to look at alternatives like they did. Would the Petes have emptied their cabinet if they knew Wright was coming back?

What would Kitchener have added to the trade if they could get both players?

Would Arcuri and Wright be worth Mews and foster and picks?

Francis knew long before Xmas that he was sending him back. Seattle is doing to well with the players. They have to keep him. Siting him in the press box was not going to improve his game.

 

[OMG67]

If Kingston had of been able to market him earlier they could have made a nice package of Arcuri and Wright.

Also, if they had him earlier, they would be at the top of the food chain not playing catch up after all the other players had been traded.

The problem I think, for a lot of teams was the unknown factor. Is he coming back to the OHL or is he not? When you add that to the equation teams, start to look at alternatives like they did. Would the Petes have emptied their cabinet if they knew Wright was coming back?

What would Kitchener have added to the trade if they could get both players?

Would Arcuri and Wright be worth Mews and foster and picks?

Francis knew long before Xmas that he was sending him back. Seattle is doing to well with the players. They have to keep him. Siting him in the press box was not going to improve his game.

I think there are a lot of assumptions that we simply cannot verify, nor logically conclude it as most likely.

Although I agree that if Wright were made available early, they may have had a longer runway, the reality is most teams knew he was on the radar and there was nothing stopping Kingston from piecing together deals like you are suggesting if in fact those deals would have even been available. Not many teams have the capacity to add two guys in one deal like you are suggesting. Not only does the acquiring team have to add the assets, those two players together have to fit the profile of the players that team needs. Sarnia did it but they got a Centre and a defense first D-Man. That’s what they needed.

And really, Kingston only traded three players. I wasn’t a fire sale either.

I think some people, including myself, seem to want to make sense of something and make too many assumptions to help fill in the gaps when the gaps need facts, not conjecture.

 

[dirty12]

If Kingston had of been able to market him earlier they could have made a nice package of Arcuri and Wright.

Also, if they had him earlier, they would be at the top of the food chain not playing catch up after all the other players had been traded.

The problem I think, for a lot of teams was the unknown factor. Is he coming back to the OHL or is he not? When you add that to the equation teams, start to look at alternatives like they did. Would the Petes have emptied their cabinet if they knew Wright was coming back?

What would Kitchener have added to the trade if they could get both players?

Would Arcuri and Wright be worth Mews and foster and picks?

Francis knew long before Xmas that he was sending him back. Seattle is doing to well with the players. They have to keep him. Siting him in the press box was not going to improve his game.

Yeah the Petes would have emptied the cupboards for Beck. If returned, he will almost certainly be the top forward available at the next deadline.
Teams knew Kingston wanted a RD. If the ‘67s were willing to move Mews, the ‘67s probably could have had Wright.

Miedema and McCarthy was not a consolation prize. I think the Petes, ‘67s, and Frontenacs are all quite pleased with their trades.

 

[Blasty15]

There is no way that you can compare Beck to Morrison. Their skill level, what they have done and their physical fitness are completely off.

I do not see Ottawa making any trades before the draft.

Main reason is that we will still be in the playoffs at that time and you are not going to trade a player while you are playing for the league championship.

The 67\s will look for a Euro 17-year-old to bring in that can make a mark for the draft. Probably a D.

As to trading goalies, the only time you trade a goalie is after training camp or at the deadline.

You also want to make sure that the goalie you keep is ready for the OHL as a starter Cranley was a bust remember.

I'm struggling to understand the first comment... IMO they are very comparable.

Before last year, what would you say Morrison has done? Don't get me wrong, I was probably one of the most excited to attain him and think he's going to be amazing for us (especially long-run) but that ELITE production began in his 19-year old season (Lost 18-year old to Covid season). His production before the championship season suggests he was stuck on a bottom-tier Hamilton team as he was heavily in the minus' and putting up slightly under PPG numbers.
Jack Beck is now in his 19-year old season and healthy again; he is currently on a 1.36 PPG pace which (before additions) led the way for Ottawa - yes I know that is only sample-sized at the moment but he provided 1.22 in his 18-year old season as well + led the way in playoffs despite the sweep. I have said before on his injury/"fitness" front.. no one can predict the kidney injury and someone tell me how to avoid a blindside "collision" especially after scoring a goal?
I'm not arguing here that one is better than the other, both have very unique, yet similar skill sets (pass-first but can score tons of goals).. if Ottawa were lucky to have Jack Beck return, the haul at the deadline would be massive and that's not really up for debate.
These two look to have built chemistry quickly and will be a joy to watch the rest of the year, which will only raise each other's stock.

 

[beastintheeast]

I'm struggling to understand the first comment... IMO they are very comparable.

Before last year, what would you say Morrison has done? Don't get me wrong, I was probably one of the most excited to attain him and think he's going to be amazing for us (especially long-run) but that ELITE production began in his 19-year old season (Lost 18-year old to Covid season). His production before the championship season suggests he was stuck on a bottom-tier Hamilton team as he was heavily in the minus' and putting up slightly under PPG numbers.
Jack Beck is now in his 19-year old season and healthy again; he is currently on a 1.36 PPG pace which (before additions) led the way for Ottawa - yes I know that is only sample-sized at the moment but he provided 1.22 in his 18-year old season as well + led the way in playoffs despite the sweep. I have said before on his injury/"fitness" front.. no one can predict the kidney injury and someone tell me how to avoid a blindside "collision" especially after scoring a goal?
I'm not arguing here that one is better than the other, both have very unique, yet similar skill sets (pass-first but can score tons of goals).. if Ottawa were lucky to have Jack Beck return, the haul at the deadline would be massive and that's not really up for debate.
These two look to have built chemistry quickly and will be a joy to watch the rest of the year, which will only raise each other's stock.

I agree but the difference that I see is that I do not see Beck as the scoring machine and leader that Morrison is. Yes it is possible but it has not happened also we do not know what next year at the deadline will be.
A healthy Beck could get big numbers but the healthy part has not happened.

If Beck comes back and it leading the league in points then he will draw good picks. Will it be the same I do not think so.

 

[beastintheeast]

In our conference who do you see as the biggest challenge?

Petes
NB
Barrie

Do you see any change in the standings or is this it for the playoffs?

 

[dirty12]

In our conference who do you see as the biggest challenge?

Petes
NB
Barrie

Do you see any change in the standings or is this it for the playoffs?

The top four likely stay the same. Round 2;
‘67s vs Petes
NB vs Colts

 

[OMG67]

I'm struggling to understand the first comment... IMO they are very comparable.

Before last year, what would you say Morrison has done? Don't get me wrong, I was probably one of the most excited to attain him and think he's going to be amazing for us (especially long-run) but that ELITE production began in his 19-year old season (Lost 18-year old to Covid season). His production before the championship season suggests he was stuck on a bottom-tier Hamilton team as he was heavily in the minus' and putting up slightly under PPG numbers.
Jack Beck is now in his 19-year old season and healthy again; he is currently on a 1.36 PPG pace which (before additions) led the way for Ottawa - yes I know that is only sample-sized at the moment but he provided 1.22 in his 18-year old season as well + led the way in playoffs despite the sweep. I have said before on his injury/"fitness" front.. no one can predict the kidney injury and someone tell me how to avoid a blindside "collision" especially after scoring a goal?
I'm not arguing here that one is better than the other, both have very unique, yet similar skill sets (pass-first but can score tons of goals).. if Ottawa were lucky to have Jack Beck return, the haul at the deadline would be massive and that's not really up for debate.
These two look to have built chemistry quickly and will be a joy to watch the rest of the year, which will only raise each other's stock.

I will counter-argue that.

There are a few things Jack needs to accomplish first. He will need to score at a 100 point pace the remainder of this season which means he will need to finish with around 60 points even after missing 25 games. Then he will need to score 2 points per game in the playoffs, win the Playoff MVP and the Championship. Then he will need to go on to be a points leader in the Memorial Cup. Then he will need to play a half season next year on a bottom dweller team with one scoring line and still be in the top 5 in scoring.

If he can do all of that, then he may be able to garner the same sort of return. However, there is still the issue of him being a winger and not a centre.

I think a more reasonable comparison based on what I would project Beck to accomplish would be the Maksimovich trade. That basically ended up being two 2nds, a 13th and rights to Austen Swankler (Non-report). Swankler did report to Erie the following season for one year and scored 45 points. If it were a picks deal then either two 2nds and a 4th or one 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th. I think that is more fair unless Beck does end up being “the man” league wide the remainder of this season and the first half of next. I like Beck a lot but my expectations aren’t that high.

Then toss in the fact that if Beck were to accomplish what Morrison did the remainder of this year, he will be signed and I highly doubt he would be sent back for an OA season. But that is an entirely different discussion.

I agree but the difference that I see is that I do not see Beck as the scoring machine and leader that Morrison is. Yes it is possible but it has not happened also we do not know what next year at the deadline will be.
A healthy Beck could get big numbers but the healthy part has not happened.

If Beck comes back and it leading the league in points then he will draw good picks. Will it be the same I do not think so.

I will agree with Blasty that the healthy part isn’t an issue. Two freak incidents. I would toss that more up to bad luck.

If it were an issue with a back, knee or shoulder, then I would be cautious. For example, I am more worried about Boucher then Beck.

 

[OMG67]

The top four likely stay the same. Round 2;
‘67s vs Petes
NB vs Colts

You are assuming North Bay wins the conference? The 67’s have a 3 point lead and two games in hand. I still think that edge is enough. Ottawa essentially has the luxury of losing three more games than NB down the stretch.

Ottawa is handicapped with two games against a strong Gatineau club though. If they lose points in that series, it may make things interesting.

You know I am not a supporter of the Petes. I think they are too top heavy and they don’t have the scoring distribution that is ideal in the playoffs BUT, the regular season is a different story. I think they will beat up on the bottom half quite easily. I think they will finish 3rd and Barrie 4th.

I agree without question that the top 4 will move on and I doubt any series goes more than 5 games. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were all sweeps to be honest.

Ottawa has a stretch of 8 games of 9 on the road coming up starting next week. If they still hold the Conference lead after that, I think they will take it home. IF they don’t, they will need to rely on NB stumbling at some point.

Unless they get “goalied,” they will likely win all their games against the bottom feeders. They are handling the bottom half of the league quite well. I would say they have 15 challenging games left in the season. If they win 8, NB would also have to run the table against the bottom feeders and go 7-3 in their 10 remaining challenging games. Hypothetically speaking, if that all happens, NB would need to finish the season 26-3 (.897)To Ottawa’s 24-7 (.774).

I think it is likely Ottawa finishes somewhere around .774 the rest of the season. I’m not sure NB has the discipline to finish .850+ The rest of the way. They haven’t demonstrated the ability to go on long runs to date. Will likely be close though.

 

[beastintheeast]

I will counter-argue that.

There are a few things Jack needs to accomplish first. He will need to score at a 100 point pace the remainder of this season which means he will need to finish with around 60 points even after missing 25 games. Then he will need to score 2 points per game in the playoffs, win the Playoff MVP and the Championship. Then he will need to go on to be a points leader in the Memorial Cup. Then he will need to play a half season next year on a bottom dweller team with one scoring line and still be in the top 5 in scoring.

If he can do all of that, then he may be able to garner the same sort of return. However, there is still the issue of him being a winger and not a centre.

I think a more reasonable comparison based on what I would project Beck to accomplish would be the Maksimovich trade. That basically ended up being two 2nds, a 13th and rights to Austen Swankler (Non-report). Swankler did report to Erie the following season for one year and scored 45 points. If it were a picks deal then either two 2nds and a 4th or one 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th. I think that is more fair unless Beck does end up being “the man” league wide the remainder of this season and the first half of next. I like Beck a lot but my expectations aren’t that high.

Then toss in the fact that if Beck were to accomplish what Morrison did the remainder of this year, he will be signed and I highly doubt he would be sent back for an OA season. But that is an entirely different discussion.


I will agree with Blasty that the healthy part isn’t an issue. Two freak incidents. I would toss that more up to bad luck.

If it were an issue with a back, knee or shoulder, then I would be cautious. For example, I am more worried about Boucher then Beck.

I fully agree my point was that fluke or whatever Beck needs to be healthy and play games in order to become a high rank trade piece. JB can not trade him if he is on the injured list at the deadline or if there is an issue with his health.
I am sure that while it is not big part of it that his ability to stay healthy and productive is a concern with Calgary.

I also agree that if Beck has a Morrison year or a yrea that is anything like it in the last half of the season and goes to an NHL camp, then there is no doubt he will not be back.

 

[OMG67]

I fully agree my point was that fluke or whatever Beck needs to be healthy and play games in order to become a high rank trade piece. JB can not trade him if he is on the injured list at the deadline or if there is an issue with his health.
I am sure that while it is not big part of it that his ability to stay healthy and productive is a concern with Calgary.

I also agree that if Beck has a Morrison year or a yrea that is anything like it in the last half of the season and goes to an NHL camp, then there is no doubt he will not be back.

And I think that second point is the caveat to all of this. We want to win a championship. If we do, Beck will be a big part of it. That alone will likely preclude him from coming back.

For those that suggest he is too fragile or small or doesn’t carry enough weight, NHL teams trend toward developing players directly in their system as soon as possible. Although I agree he may benefit from a return to the OHL for an OA year, play the year, pack on some weight etc, the reality is the NHL teams don’t tend to do it.

 

[beastintheeast]

Ottawa	NB
HAM 3 Sar2 Bar 2 OS 2 Ldn Miss 3 Flint Sag 2 Niag 2 WSR Osh 3 Kgn 2 NB Petes 3 Gat 2 Kit	Ham 2 Sarnia 2 Barrie 2 OS Ldn Miss 4 Flint 2 Sag Niag 3 Wsr Osh 2 KGN Ott Petes Sudbury 4 Erie
31	29

 

[dirty12]

You are assuming North Bay wins the conference? The 67’s have a 3 point lead and two games in hand. I still think that edge is enough. Ottawa essentially has the luxury of losing three more games than NB down the stretch.

Ottawa is handicapped with two games against a strong Gatineau club though. If they lose points in that series, it may make things interesting.

You know I am not a supporter of the Petes. I think they are too top heavy and they don’t have the scoring distribution that is ideal in the playoffs BUT, the regular season is a different story. I think they will beat up on the bottom half quite easily. I think they will finish 3rd and Barrie 4th.

I agree without question that the top 4 will move on and I doubt any series goes more than 5 games. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were all sweeps to be honest.

Ottawa has a stretch of 8 games of 9 on the road coming up starting next week. If they still hold the Conference lead after that, I think they will take it home. IF they don’t, they will need to rely on NB stumbling at some point.

Unless they get “goalied,” they will likely win all their games against the bottom feeders. They are handling the bottom half of the league quite well. I would say they have 15 challenging games left in the season. If they win 8, NB would also have to run the table against the bottom feeders and go 7-3 in their 10 remaining challenging games. Hypothetically speaking, if that all happens, NB would need to finish the season 26-3 (.897)To Ottawa’s 24-7 (.774).

I think it is likely Ottawa finishes somewhere around .774 the rest of the season. I’m not sure NB has the discipline to finish .850+ The rest of the way. They haven’t demonstrated the ability to go on long runs to date. Will likely be close though.

I had the top four staying in the same positions; ‘67s, NB, Colts, Petes. Without significant injuries or suspensions, I can’t see anything but equal or higher W% for the top four
NB has played most games and road games, so they could gain some ground on the ‘67s by playing the BUG less often.
I disagree a bit on ideal playoff scoring. I like the idea of a strong shut down 3rd line. I’m not nearly 100% convinced Dubois can skate with the other big 3 teams top lines, but Stillman and Meelee are ideal imo. And I think Purdeller can work himself into a half time-share with Dubois in the top 9.

The top four are just really good teams. The ‘67s could finish 0.800 and not be my playoff favourite. That might change if J.Beck has a MVP type second half though.