Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[dirty12]

The Castle from Oshawa to Niagara trade was widely reported to be the part two of the Tomasino trade. It’s the lightest trade return in “defected player” history. I am very confident that the return for HB will include at least two 2nds and likely at least three other picks.

Part III imo; Studnicka/Paquette-Moore & picks, Tomasini-9picks, Castle-4 picks.

See Bateman #17, Castle #12, Ebert #17, Rychel #21, Tortora #19; not all returns for defects (even when there was no limit on trading picks) were huge.

 

[OMG67]

The Moldenhauer defect had everything to do with Covid. He got an opportunity to play in NJ when the OHL was delayed and then signed with Chicago when the season was cancelled. He liked it in Chicago and stayed. I firmly believe if there were no Covid delays, he’s be in a 67s uniform now. That wasn’t a strategic pick.

If HB doesn’t report, I can’t see Ottawa having taken a chance with so many decent players available in that draft spot. He may have dropped to that spot but is he worth not reporting if they really wanted him to sign? I doubt it. If he goes defected, this was predetermined with a negotiated landing spot or two. I cannot see Ottawa doing it for an Aiden Castle type return. It isn’t worth it.

A two part deal with Saginaw makes some sense because he is a Michigan boy but as some have mentioned, Saginaw is hosting and that doesn’t make as much sense. However, I still think it does make sense from the perspective that it is one complete trade. HB plus some picks for Mintyukov was exponentially better than any other potential deal. I also helps explain the sheer number of picks exchanged for an Import.

Kitchener doesn’t make much sense unless Rehkopf is in that deal. I agree with some that it makes more sense to do a Rehkopf deal at the deadline and Kitchener doesn’t really have the picks to make an HB trade anyway. Ottawa needs 2025 and 2026 picks and Kitchener is in the same not as Ottawa with light picks in those drafts.

Flint could also make sense being in Michigan. They have picks and probably won’t go heavy at a Championship this year. Acquiring a young asset relatively cheap would be an astute move for them.

So there are a few options that make some sense.

 

[beastintheeast]

The Moldenhauer defect had everything to do with Covid. He got an opportunity to play in NJ when the OHL was delayed and then signed with Chicago when the season was cancelled. He liked it in Chicago and stayed. I firmly believe if there were no Covid delays, he’s be in a 67s uniform now. That wasn’t a strategic pick.

If HB doesn’t report, I can’t see Ottawa having taken a chance with so many decent players available in that draft spot. He may have dropped to that spot but is he worth not reporting if they really wanted him to sign? I doubt it. If he goes defected, this was predetermined with a negotiated landing spot or two. I cannot see Ottawa doing it for an Aiden Castle type return. It isn’t worth it.

A two part deal with Saginaw makes some sense because he is a Michigan boy but as some have mentioned, Saginaw is hosting and that doesn’t make as much sense. However, I still think it does make sense from the perspective that it is one complete trade. HB plus some picks for Mintyukov was exponentially better than any other potential deal. I also helps explain the sheer number of picks exchanged for an Import.

Kitchener doesn’t make much sense unless Rehkopf is in that deal. I agree with some that it makes more sense to do a Rehkopf deal at the deadline and Kitchener doesn’t really have the picks to make an HB trade anyway. Ottawa needs 2025 and 2026 picks and Kitchener is in the same not as Ottawa with light picks in those drafts.

Flint could also make sense being in Michigan. They have picks and probably won’t go heavy at a Championship this year. Acquiring a young asset relatively cheap would be an astute move for them.

So there are a few options that make some sense.

2 2nd and a 3rd basing on Domi deal with london

 

[dirty12]

The Moldenhauer defect had everything to do with Covid. He got an opportunity to play in NJ when the OHL was delayed and then signed with Chicago when the season was cancelled. He liked it in Chicago and stayed. I firmly believe if there were no Covid delays, he’s be in a 67s uniform now. That wasn’t a strategic pick.

If HB doesn’t report, I can’t see Ottawa having taken a chance with so many decent players available in that draft spot. He may have dropped to that spot but is he worth not reporting if they really wanted him to sign? I doubt it. If he goes defected, this was predetermined with a negotiated landing spot or two. I cannot see Ottawa doing it for an Aiden Castle type return. It isn’t worth it.

A two part deal with Saginaw makes some sense because he is a Michigan boy but as some have mentioned, Saginaw is hosting and that doesn’t make as much sense. However, I still think it does make sense from the perspective that it is one complete trade. HB plus some picks for Mintyukov was exponentially better than any other potential deal. I also helps explain the sheer number of picks exchanged for an Import.

Kitchener doesn’t make much sense unless Rehkopf is in that deal. I agree with some that it makes more sense to do a Rehkopf deal at the deadline and Kitchener doesn’t really have the picks to make an HB trade anyway. Ottawa needs 2025 and 2026 picks and Kitchener is in the same not as Ottawa with light picks in those drafts.

Flint could also make sense being in Michigan. They have picks and probably won’t go heavy at a Championship this year. Acquiring a young asset relatively cheap would be an astute move for them.

So there are a few options that make some sense.

If a team in great need of a D going forward and plenty of picks can recruit HB maybe the ‘67s can get 2(2, 3, 4). That would be great.
But the 2024 #23 pick plus 2nd, 2-3rds is 100% worth declaring a mid-1st to early 2nd ranked player defective imo.
It’s not like HB was the consensus top talent available at #22. Cloutier, Hull, Lam, Snelgrove, Allen (if D was a must was reported to have been willing to go to Niagara if a 1st round pick)) were all available. Odds are, a deal was cooked.

 

[OMG67]

If a team in great need of a D going forward and plenty of picks can recruit HB maybe the ‘67s can get 2(2, 3, 4). That would be great.
But the 2024 #23 pick plus 2nd, 2-3rds is 100% worth declaring a mid-1st to early 2nd ranked player defective imo.
It’s not like HB was the consensus top talent available at #22. Cloutier, Hull, Lam, Snelgrove, Allen (if D was a must was reported to have been willing to go to Niagara if a 1st round pick)) were all available. Odds are, a deal was cooked.

And that is my point entirely. You have to think there was a deal cooked and if there was, why would Ottawa participate for a relatively low return? For a deal to be cooked, some team out there must have approached Ottawa or Ottawa approaches teams and simply asked around. Either way, it doesn’t make sense to me for them to do it for an underwhelming return.

I can see it if Ottawa honestly picked the player and genuinely couldn’t get the player to sign and the player engineered his destination to one team and Ottawa had no bargaining power. Essentially get what you can. But I really don’t see that as being a viable scenario at this point.

That is why I cannot see Ottawa doing it for less than two 2nds, a 3rd and 4th. That would make it worth their while. Of course, a lot of that has to do with the years the picks are in and IMO, Ottawa is trying to fill in their gaps in 2025 and 2026, not trying to get 2024 picks which would be more valuable as trade assets.

All of this points to Hamilton or Saginaw as part of either of the two massive picks trades they made. I’m leaning toward Saginaw but who knows….

Hamilton managed to weasel their way into a former 1st rounder out of Peterborough. Maybe they arranged something with Ottawa for Morrison as well? Possible.

 

[dirty12]

And that is my point entirely. You have to think there was a deal cooked and if there was, why would Ottawa participate for a relatively low return? For a deal to be cooked, some team out there must have approached Ottawa or Ottawa approaches teams and simply asked around. Either way, it doesn’t make sense to me for them to do it for an underwhelming return.

I can see it if Ottawa honestly picked the player and genuinely couldn’t get the player to sign and the player engineered his destination to one team and Ottawa had no bargaining power. Essentially get what you can. But I really don’t see that as being a viable scenario at this point.

That is why I cannot see Ottawa doing it for less than two 2nds, a 3rd and 4th. That would make it worth their while. Of course, a lot of that has to do with the years the picks are in and IMO, Ottawa is trying to fill in their gaps in 2025 and 2026, not trying to get 2024 picks which would be more valuable as trade assets.

All of this points to Hamilton or Saginaw as part of either of the two massive picks trades they made. I’m leaning toward Saginaw but who knows….

Hamilton managed to weasel their way into a former 1st rounder out of Peterborough. Maybe they arranged something with Ottawa for Morrison as well? Possible.

Idk. HB is just one of a half dozen that could have been BPA at pick #22. I think pick #23 next draft plus 2, 3, 3 would be well worth it.
I guessed 2, 3, 3, 4 because Kitchener.is unable to beat that right now, and I don’t think London would. Sarnia, Erie or Flint, maybe.
Saginaw cannot really play Young, Cloutier, and HB as host; and, Young does not have to accept being traded.

 

[OMG67]

Idk. HB is just one of a half dozen that could have been BPA at pick #22. I think pick #23 next draft plus 2, 3, 3 would be well worth it.
I guessed 2, 3, 3, 4 because Kitchener.is unable to beat that right now, and I don’t think London would. Sarnia, Erie or Flint, maybe.
Saginaw cannot really play Young, Cloutier, and HB as host; and, Young does not have to accept being traded.

We are in wait and see mode. Knowing the Ottawa franchise the way I do, I can’t see them valuing the picks that way. HB is a pretty good player and like you said, there were others also available at that slot. I can’t see Ottawa passing up on the 22nd pick in a deep draft. I honestly think they pick the player and move one.

We also need to consider the depth of this draft. By all accounts, it was pretty solid through the mid point of the 2nd and maybe right through the full 2nd round. A 22nd pick this year isn’t a 22nd pick in a weak draft. I think we are going to really see some solid players out of this draft. If we go back to the 2021 draft, there were a lot of simply mediocre players in the beginning of that draft by comparison. I think we really need to make that consideration as well.

 

[dirty12]

We are in wait and see mode. Knowing the Ottawa franchise the way I do, I can’t see them valuing the picks that way. HB is a pretty good player and like you said, there were others also available at that slot. I can’t see Ottawa passing up on the 22nd pick in a deep draft. I honestly think they pick the player and move one.

We also need to consider the depth of this draft. By all accounts, it was pretty solid through the mid point of the 2nd and maybe right through the full 2nd round. A 22nd pick this year isn’t a 22nd pick in a weak draft. I think we are going to really see some solid players out of this draft. If we go back to the 2021 draft, there were a lot of simply mediocre players in the beginning of that draft by comparison. I think we really need to make that consideration as well.

I got a similar impression about this draft from articles, mocks, and ranks. I understood there was a clear drop after the top 4, Hopkins was nearly unanimous next, then things got interesting in that very good players could be had through 2 rounds. The order dependant on likes and needs. It adds up, Kitchener selected four players through 3 rounds that I seen with 1st round ranks. Flint as well, but three don’t seem likely to report.
Except at the top, I did not get the impression it was 2018 or 2022 good though. That’s why I think the ‘67s would do well if they could ‘only’ get 2024 pick #23 plus another 2nd, 2-3s, & 4 for declaring the #22 pick in 2023 as defective.

 

[OnlyUpFromHere]

Is it safe to say the team is holding out on releasing a camp roster because an HB trade is coming either tomorrow or sometime this week?

Feels like it'll be pretty obvious tomorrow when there's a Red vs. White game and he's no where to be seen.

 

[beastintheeast]

Ul

Is it safe to say the team is holding out on releasing a camp roster because an HB trade is coming either tomorrow or sometime this week?

Feels like it'll be pretty obvious tomorrow when there's a Red vs. White game and he's no where to be seen.

Unless HB agent officially notifies the team that he is not reporting and will stay home rather than play for Ottawa, then they have to act as if he is coming to camp.
However, if he misses the first 5 days of camp or whatever the criteria is then they can claim him defected.

As OMG stated the chances are that Boyd is not stupid and already has a deal done.
If the family and sent say that they will not report to that team, then Boyd has the choice of taking a crap offer from the team he wants to go to or simply saying fine enjoy junior B.

HB and his parents screwed up. They told the USHL not to draft him or at least gave enough
of a look for them not to. That in itself either says that he is not that great or teams were told not to waste time (although taking him with a late-round pick would not have hurt any of them)

Now he is going to be stuck playing in the minor leagues in the U.S. which isn't usually where the scouts look..

As to the camp list I seem to think that when I was there they did not release it until they saw who actually came (others can correct me) I am not sure that one has nothing to do with the other.

Ottawa could just s easily have made the list with his name on it and then when and if he was a o show simply scratched it off.

 

[OnlyUpFromHere]

Ul

Unless HB agent officially notifies the team that he is not reporting and will stay home rather than play for Ottawa, then they have to act as if he is coming to camp.
However, if he misses the first 5 days of camp or whatever the criteria is then they can claim him defected.

As OMG stated the chances are that Boyd is not stupid and already has a deal done.
If the family and sent say that they will not report to that team, then Boyd has the choice of taking a crap offer from the team he wants to go to or simply saying fine enjoy junior B.

HB and his parents screwed up. They told the USHL not to draft him or at least gave enough
of a look for them not to. That in itself either says that he is not that great or teams were told not to waste time (although taking him with a late-round pick would not have hurt any of them)

Now he is going to be stuck playing in the minor leagues in the U.S. which isn't usually where the scouts look..

As to the camp list I seem to think that when I was there they did not release it until they saw who actually came (others can correct me) I am not sure that one has nothing to do with the other.

Ottawa could just s easily have made the list with his name on it and then when and if he was a o show simply scratched it off.

Can’t a USHL simply add him to their their protected list and have him report to their camp?

Or invite him as a “Free Agent” like OHL teams do?

If he wanted to circle back to the USHL, there’d have to be a way he could do that. I can’t see a league saying “nope, sorry” to a high end player.

 

[BarberPole9]

Training camp roster is up:

https://x.com/ottawa67shockey/status/1696862874457588137?s=46&t=wjRDcG5d_0PITkMhtNnt9w

I’m glad to see the young goalies Nelson and Duncan there. It will be interesting to see if the squad goes into the season with Donoso and Mackenzie or if one of the young tendies breaks through.

 

[beastintheeast]

Training camp roster is up:

https://x.com/ottawa67shockey/status/1696862874457588137?s=46&t=wjRDcG5d_0PITkMhtNnt9w

I’m glad to see the young goalies Nelson and Duncan there. It will be interesting to see if the squad goes into the season with Donoso and Mackenzie or if one of the young tendies breaks through.

I think once the season starts we will see one of the goalies sent to a central Jr A team until one of the goalies is traded.

This might also happen with any forward that is close to making the team.

No BECK?????

 

[OMG67]

Training camp roster is up:

https://x.com/ottawa67shockey/status/1696862874457588137?s=46&t=wjRDcG5d_0PITkMhtNnt9w

I’m glad to see the young goalies Nelson and Duncan there. It will be interesting to see if the squad goes into the season with Donoso and Mackenzie or if one of the young tendies breaks through.

I could see Duncan making a case for himself. Nelson as a 16 year old is unlikely but Boyd had some solid feedback on him saying that he felt he could be a big part of the future of the team. He’s probably in the mix for next season.

Unfortunatley, no surprise reports.

I’d be interested in feedback on Talan Palmer, Ryder Dagenais, and Mikayil Kahriman. Those are the likley three outsiders that may make an impact.

 

[EvenSteven]

The comp pick is supposed to be one pick after where the player was chosen. If, HB is designated defected, pick #23 would be the third pick in the second round (if Moore isn’t designated defected). You would think that since HB was a first round pick, the comp pick would be pick #21, the last pick of the first round?

Or has this situation already been covered under league rules where it’s the pick after where the player was drafted period.

It just doesn’t seem right to lose a 1st rounder and the comp pick being a few picks into the 2nd round.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

I think once the season starts we will see one of the goalies sent to a central Jr A team until one of the goalies is traded.

This might also happen with any forward that is close to making the team.

No BECK?????

Per Kenny Walls, Beck is "focusing on his upcoming pro camp tryout".

 

[BarberPole9]

Per Kenny Walls, Beck is "focusing on his upcoming pro camp tryout".

I remember hearing an interview with James Boyd around the signing deadline where he said that he was going to have a discussion with the Beck family about his possible return this year. It seemed somewhat telling that Beck may be looking to move on. Regardless, I hope that Jack has a healthy year because he’s a heck of a player when he’s on the ice.

 

[OMG67]

I remember hearing an interview with James Boyd around the signing deadline where he said that he was going to have a discussion with the Beck family about his possible return this year. It seemed somewhat telling that Beck may be looking to move on. Regardless, I hope that Jack has a healthy year because he’s a heck of a player when he’s on the ice.

If not for his health issues, he’d be gone. Him returning for an OA year would be a bonus.

 

[dirty12]

The comp pick is supposed to be one pick after where the player was chosen. If, HB is designated defected, pick #23 would be the third pick in the second round (if Moore isn’t designated defected). You would think that since HB was a first round pick, the comp pick would be pick #21, the last pick of the first round?

Or has this situation already been covered under league rules where it’s the pick after where the player was drafted period.

It just doesn’t seem right to lose a 1st rounder and the comp pick being a few picks into the 2nd round.

must be pick #21 or 22 if London declares Moore defective.

 

[mianjo]

Per Kenny Walls, Beck is "focusing on his upcoming pro camp tryout".

I think they mentioned he was going to a Carolina tryout camp

 

[Leafs n Prospects]

Not replying to each message individually but here’s my takes on the last bunch of messages.

HB would be a great add to the young D core we currently are icing but like another poster said, there was more than a handful of guys that could have been taken with pick 22. maybe it was a deep draft but you can not compare anything with the 2021 draft as it was right after a full season off and the players were basically scouted during team practices. Everyone knew that draft would be all over the place. If HB doesn’t want to sign here then move him for whatever package of picks is best offered. Also on the Beck situation, yes focusing on his upcoming pro camp but there’s more to it otherwise why not use the start of this camp to get ready for his NHL camp? it’s rumoured that he has asked for a trade prior to the upcoming season.

Anyone catch the scrimmage today? still curious about who’s going to slot in down the middle.

 

[LDN]

Can HB come to London? 2,3(2x),4?

 

[beastintheeast]

Can HB come to London? 2,3(2x),4?

Sure if London makes the best offer and it is acceptable to his parents. Same price as Domi I think

 

[beastintheeast]

Not replying to each message individually but here’s my takes on the last bunch of messages.

HB would be a great add to the young D core we currently are icing but like another poster said, there was more than a handful of guys that could have been taken with pick 22. maybe it was a deep draft but you can not compare anything with the 2021 draft as it was right after a full season off and the players were basically scouted during team practices. Everyone knew that draft would be all over the place. If HB doesn’t want to sign here then move him for whatever package of picks is best offered. Also on the Beck situation, yes focusing on his upcoming pro camp but there’s more to it otherwise why not use the start of this camp to get ready for his NHL camp? it’s rumoured that he has asked for a trade prior to the upcoming season.

Anyone catch the scrimmage today? still curious about who’s going to slot in down the middle.

We have a great D not sure if he would be an asset this year next year maybe. as to comparing drafts, that is always a fallacy you just have to look at the way past drafts have turned out.

Beck if he is trying to get a tryout and make an AHL TEAM is better off practicing and training with NHL AHL players than being in Ottawa for a couple of weeks.

He has already made this team, and really the skill level in an OHL camp is pretty low.

If he has asked for a trade that is going to depend a lot on what happens at Carolina(?) and then when he comes back as well as what team feels that he will benefit and is competitive I do not see him wanting to go to a team that is not better than here.

must be pick #21 or 22 if London declares Moore defective.

depending on how many teams have defective players(5 as example) it could be pic number 27 just means that the first round will in actuality encompass the first few 2nd round pics

 

[LDN]

Sure if London makes the best offer and it is acceptable to his parents. Same price as Domi I think

Is he comparable to Domi? I don’t know where he stands, but would he be considered one of the top 07 D?