Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[dirty12]

Sure if London makes the best offer and it is acceptable to his parents. Same price as Domi I think

London gave up 3-2nds for Domi who was the #8 pick, two of them for the very next OHL priority draft. That was before limits on how far out picks could be traded.
To get that return, HB would have to be willing to report to any eastern conference team. Otherwise, Flint would have to out bid themselves I think. Kitchener, Sarnia and Windsor do not have 3-2nds to give. London and SSM already loaded with D could offer 3-2nds if they have already decided to be sellers this year.

 

[OMG67]

London gave up 3-2nds for Domi who was the #8 pick, two of them for the very next OHL priority draft. That was before limits on how far out picks could be traded.
To get that return, HB would have to be willing to report to any eastern conference team. Otherwise, Flint would have to out bid themselves I think. Kitchener, Sarnia and Windsor do not have 3-2nds to give. London and SSM already loaded with D could offer 3-2nds if they have already decided to be sellers this year.

We’ve haggled over value of HB as a defected player and I think, generally speaking, we agree it is two 2nds (not 2024s) and two 3rds. Of course, it could be one less 2nd and more 3rds through 5ths to make up the difference but that value is all in the same ballpark. The two 2nds and two 3rds is 67% of the value of Dickerson. Get it? Sixty-Seven? Never mind…..

Three 2nds is excessive. There would need to be a bonafide bidding war for that to happen. HB was far too late of a pick to be considered. Even his highest draft ranking had him going to Kitchener around pick #12. He was never considered to be a top 10 pick: his trade value will likely reflect that.

 

[EvenSteven]

Three 2nds is excessive. There would need to be a bonafide bidding war for that to happen. HB was far too late of a pick to be considered. Even his highest draft ranking had him going to Kitchener around pick #12. He was never considered to be a top 10 pick: his trade value will likely reflect that.

Agree.

Let’s hope this gets sorted out sooner than later. IMO, the Ottawa fanbase has waited long enough for a resolution.

 

[beastintheeast]

Agree.

Let’s hope this gets sorted out sooner than later. IMO, the Ottawa fanbase has waited long enough for a resolution.

I don't think anything is really going to get resolved until after training camp when some of the other teams have made decisions.

If the teams he wants to go to look at their team and say You now we have a good young crop not sure we need him then his parents are going to have to make decisions. As the Ranger fans have stated Hunter will be traded at the deadline and there is no guarantee that the team that takes his brother is going to have the picks to acquire both.
also teams are going to get a kid with no camp experience
there is no need top rush the deal

 

[dirty12]

We’ve haggled over value of HB as a defected player and I think, generally speaking, we agree it is two 2nds (not 2024s) and two 3rds. Of course, it could be one less 2nd and more 3rds through 5ths to make up the difference but that value is all in the same ballpark. The two 2nds and two 3rds is 67% of the value of Dickerson. Get it? Sixty-Seven? Never mind…..

Funny but there is a 0.33 chance London would accept HB & Marelli for Dickinson. Dickinson came into the league billed as the best D since Ekblad.

If more teams that are acceptable destinations had more picks, 2(2nds & 3rds) would be reasonable for sure.

Three 2nds is excessive. There would need to be a bonafide bidding war for that to happen. HB was far too late of a pick to be considered. Even his highest draft ranking had him going to Kitchener around pick #12. He was never considered to be a top 10 pick: his trade value will likely reflect that.

 

[OMG67]

Funny but there is a 0.33 chance London would accept HB & Marelli for Dickinson. Dickinson came into the league billed as the best D since Ekblad.

If more teams that are acceptable destinations had more picks, 2(2nds & 3rds) would be reasonable for sure.

If there is a 1/3 of a % chance they would accept that trade and we use that as the measuring stick, then HB is worth 1/300th of what Dickenson was traded for. Does that even equal a 15th round pick In 2028?

If Dickenson were traded now, his value would well exceed what they paid for him because there is an inherent discount built in to the defected player trades because of the comp 1st.

You see where I am going with this?

The value of a player is based on how a team views the player within the landscape at that time. We can use past comparables to determine a base value (I do that all the time). However, the component we don’t know is whether this was a pre-arranged deal or not. All I can say and have said is I cannot see Ottawa bothering to participate in this sort of “cooked deal” unless it involves at least two 2nds and two 3rds. Considering the league takes these situations seriously, why risk losing a first round pick if found to be against the rules?

 

[EvenSteven]

I don't think anything is really going to get resolved until after training camp when some of the other teams have made decisions.

If the teams he wants to go to look at their team and say You now we have a good young crop not sure we need him then his parents are going to have to make decisions. As the Ranger fans have stated Hunter will be traded at the deadline and there is no guarantee that the team that takes his brother is going to have the picks to acquire both.
also teams are going to get a kid with no camp experience
there is no need top rush the deal

People have mentioned two 2nds + for Henry. As far as I’m concerned, for the 22nd pick in the draft, essentially a 2nd round pick if not for compensation picks, I wouldn’t give up anymore than one 2nd in the deal unless they are very distant. I mean, a ‘24 2nd and ‘24 3rd may be more desirable than 2nds in ‘26 and ‘27.

Making sure the brothers play together is not a make or break in a trade for Henry. Sure, it would be cool if they played together in Kitchener up until the point Hunter is traded, but after that, I’m sure Henry would make out just fine playing in Kitchener, or any other team for that matter, without his brother on the roster.

There is some sort of rush on this deal from an Ottawa perspective. Or at least until it gets done in time to get the compensation pick. But if I’m a team trading for Henry, I’m not caving to Ottawa’s demands for higher return, just to get Henry into training camp this year. If I’m trading for a four-year player, missing training camp is a very minor thing.

 

[dirty12]

If there is a 1/3 of a % chance they would accept that trade and we use that as the measuring stick, then HB is worth 1/300th of what Dickenson was traded for. Does that even equal a 15th round pick In 2028?

If Dickenson were traded now, his value would well exceed what they paid for him because there is an inherent discount built in to the defected player trades because of the comp 1st.

You see where I am going with this?

No I don’t see where you are going with that.
Edit: I said 0.33 chance, not percent chance

If there is a discount built into defect offer, HB should go for 2, 3, 4.

People have mentioned two 2nds + for Henry. As far as I’m concerned, for the 22nd pick in the draft, essentially a 2nd round pick if not for compensation picks, I wouldn’t give up anymore than one 2nd in the deal unless they are very distant. I mean, a ‘24 2nd and ‘24 3rd may be more desirable than 2nds in ‘26 and ‘27.

Making sure the brothers play together is not a make or break in a trade for Henry. Sure, it would be cool if they played together in Kitchener up until the point Hunter is traded, but after that, I’m sure Henry would make out just fine playing in Kitchener, or any other team for that matter, without his brother on the roster.

There is some sort of rush on this deal from an Ottawa perspective. Or at least until it gets done in time to get the compensation pick. But if I’m a team trading for Henry, I’m not caving to Ottawa’s demands for higher return, just to get Henry into training camp this year. If I’m trading for a four-year player, missing training camp is a very minor thing.

I know it is the date for late birth, but deadline for declaring a defect is also Sept 15?

The value of a player is based on how a team views the player within the landscape at that time. We can use past comparables to determine a base value (I do that all the time). However, the component we don’t know is whether this was a pre-arranged deal or not. All I can say and have said is I cannot see Ottawa bothering to participate in this sort of “cooked deal” unless it involves at least two 2nds and two 3rds. Considering the league takes these situations seriously, why risk losing a first round pick if found to be against the rules?

As long as the same picks are not traded back and forth, there is nothing for the league to investigate. If Oshawa & Niagara can complete a three part deal, the league obviously turns a (blind eye?) to pre-arranged trades

 

[OMG67]

People have mentioned two 2nds + for Henry. As far as I’m concerned, for the 22nd pick in the draft, essentially a 2nd round pick if not for compensation picks, I wouldn’t give up anymore than one 2nd in the deal unless they are very distant. I mean, a ‘24 2nd and ‘24 3rd may be more desirable than 2nds in ‘26 and ‘27.

Making sure the brothers play together is not a make or break in a trade for Henry. Sure, it would be cool if they played together in Kitchener up until the point Hunter is traded, but after that, I’m sure Henry would make out just fine playing in Kitchener, or any other team for that matter, without his brother on the roster.

There is some sort of rush on this deal from an Ottawa perspective. Or at least until it gets done in time to get the compensation pick. But if I’m a team trading for Henry, I’m not caving to Ottawa’s demands for higher return, just to get Henry into training camp this year. If I’m trading for a four-year player, missing training camp is a very minor thing.

People are assuming that HB is the 22nd pick. He could very well have been the 13th pick if he wasn’t a difficult sign.

Like I have stated, if the deal was fixed prior to the draft, then it is likely HB and company said they aren’t committed to the OHL so draft at your own risk. In a deeper draft, he falls to 22nd. In a weaker draft, he goes 12th. Who knows?

The reality is Ottawa is either making every attempt to sign him and they fully intended on him playing in a 67s jersey and he was picked at 22 because that’s where he landed. Or, the deal was fixed and he would likely have gone significantly higher if his signability wasn’t in question.

Fantilli went at 18. Does his draft position affect what his value is? Not comparable players, granted, but pick location has nothing to do with difficult to sign players in most cases.

I agree about year of picks. Ottawa would likely be trying to fill the big gaps in 2025 and 2026. I doubt they are looking for 2024 picks.

The reality is the reputation of the player makes him worth the presented trade value. Not all drafts are equal. Not all 22nd picks are equal. And, again, we don’t know he is a bonafide 22nd pick either. We never really know of players put the word out they are a difficult sign in an effort to maneuver in the draft.

I guess no one managed to get out to training camp to give some feedback. That’s too bad. We usually get something about how everything progresses. I know they were live streaming on YouTube but I just couldn’t push away from work this week to watch any.

 

[OMG67]

Houben with three goals today over the two red-black games. 5th rounder and a big kid at 6’4 180. Let’s see how he fills out over the course of the year. Maybe a nice little surprise player next season?

Uronen racked up points this week. Assist machine. I watched about 5 minutes of the live stream and he made a sick behind the back pass cross ice (dot to slot) for a beauty goal this morning. Marrelli roofed it on a sweet wrist‘r.

Kenny Walls twitter has scoring sheets.

 

[44 95 plus tax]

I was at both sessions today. My unqualified observations:

No Sirman, Horner, MacKenzie or Donoso.

Imports
Uronen: Big kid, quick, involved, doesn't shy away from contact, sees ice well and makes plays. I know exactly the pass you mentioned OMG. He will be fun to watch.

Korbler: Smaller kid. Lots of talent. Wasn't too involved. Maybe trying to find his way in the NA game. Played wing not centre.

Uronen certainly outshone Korbler.

Returning Forwards
Standouts Foster, Pinelli, Gardiner
Foster was playing centre, Pinelli had some shifts at centre as well.

Gerrior, Kelly and Barlas played well as well.

Stonehouse was, well, Stonehouse lol.

New forwards:
Stood out: Houben, Kahriman, Souliere. I REALLY liked Houben. Big kid, moves well and is skilled.

Whitehead is small. Started on the wing this morning, then moved to centre where he looked more comfortable. Lots of skill and pretty tenacious. Yanni did not look out of place. I really liked Shaan Kingwell as well, although he is still 15 and needs to fill out.

Returning Defense.
Stood out. Mayich, Mews, Ewles, Marelli which shouldn't surprise. Mews needs to stay on the right side. He had problems when playing off side. He was however our best forward on some shifts (while playing defense). Mayich looks very confident. Leadership role this season for sure.

New Defensemen:
Stood out:
Michael MacLean, Darren Mathews. MacLean is older (18? Local kid, drafted by Flint 2 years ago) Big body and is surprisingly fast. More offense than defense.

Dietsch was not noticeable, which was a good thing. Just steady.

Goaltenders
Aiden Hill and Hayden Duncan stood out. I really liked Hill. Nelson made some good saves.

There really was no one that looked like they shouldn't be there. Far different than when I started going to training camps 30 years ago when there were at least two tiers of talent.

Planning on going to Kingston Sunday, see how Cameron lines them up after a few cuts.

Houben with three goals today over the two red-black games. 5th rounder and a big kid at 6’4 180. Let’s see how he fills out over the course of the year. Maybe a nice little surprise player next season?

Uronen racked up points this week. Assist machine. I watched about 5 minutes of the live stream and he made a sick behind the back pass cross ice (dot to slot) for a beauty goal this morning. Marrelli roofed it on a sweet wrist‘r.

Kenny Walls twitter has scoring sheet

 

[BarberPole9]

Les 67′s affamés à leur retour sur glace

Champions de la saison régulière de la Ligue de l’Ontario, mais éliminés au deuxième tour des séries éliminatoires par les éventuels champions des Petes de Peterborough, les 67′s d’Ottawa sont plus affamés que jamais à leur retour sur la glace de la Place TD.

www.ledroit.com

A good article filling in some gaps from our pal JF Plante.
1) They are in the process of trading HB;
2) Jack Beck is focused on trying to get a contract with Carolina;
3) Bad injury news is that Thomas Sirman is out until November with a knee injury. Brad Horner has a minor injury right now:
4) They really like Charlie Hilton- a late bloomer whose size came before his coordination;
5) No surprise that Brady Stonehouse has turned into their leader.

 

[beastintheeast]

People have mentioned two 2nds + for Henry. As far as I’m concerned, for the 22nd pick in the draft, essentially a 2nd round pick if not for compensation picks, I wouldn’t give up anymore than one 2nd in the deal unless they are very distant. I mean, a ‘24 2nd and ‘24 3rd may be more desirable than 2nds in ‘26 and ‘27.

Making sure the brothers play together is not a make or break in a trade for Henry. Sure, it would be cool if they played together in Kitchener up until the point Hunter is traded, but after that, I’m sure Henry would make out just fine playing in Kitchener, or any other team for that matter, without his brother on the roster.

There is some sort of rush on this deal from an Ottawa perspective. Or at least until it gets done in time to get the compensation pick. But if I’m a team trading for Henry, I’m not caving to Ottawa’s demands for higher return, just to get Henry into training camp this year. If I’m trading for a four-year player, missing training camp is a very minor thing.

You are forgetting one point. It may be the parents who want them together so that they can billet together. They may want a whole year. The challenge to all the rhetoric is that no one on here really knows the aversion to Ottawa. It definitely has nothing to do with development or his ability to learn We know that the organization is solid and looks after the players.. Cameron and the staff are well respected.

Again the USHL left him off the books so it was not an I want to play in the U.S. issue

I have to think that it is either we want him to play with big brother, or we want him to play close to home.
Personally, I think it is going to be very hard to get the 2 playing together deal done. While having him in the lineup might be nice the cost would be detrimental to the long term. No matter how many pieces you give up or get for Hunter, you will probably end up with hopefully the same round picks that you gave up and a rookie D.
Not getting HB, you end up with the picks you kept and the new ones that you get.

There is absolutely no rush to trading him for Ottawa. They have him they claim he is defective. They can then wait until the family realizes they are not going to get what they want or they get a reasonable deal for him.

The worst case scenario is that he sits his rookie year out and plays Jr B and they get the pick and trade him before the next draft.

 

[OMG67]

You are forgetting one point. It may be the parents who want them together so that they can billet together. They may want a whole year. The challenge to all the rhetoric is that no one on here really knows the aversion to Ottawa. It definitely has nothing to do with development or his ability to learn We know that the organization is solid and looks after the players.. Cameron and the staff are well respected.

Again the USHL left him off the books so it was not an I want to play in the U.S. issue

I have to think that it is either we want him to play with big brother, or we want him to play close to home.
Personally, I think it is going to be very hard to get the 2 playing together deal done. While having him in the lineup might be nice the cost would be detrimental to the long term. No matter how many pieces you give up or get for Hunter, you will probably end up with hopefully the same round picks that you gave up and a rookie D.
Not getting HB, you end up with the picks you kept and the new ones that you get.

There is absolutely no rush to trading him for Ottawa. They have him they claim he is defective. They can then wait until the family realizes they are not going to get what they want or they get a reasonable deal for him.

The worst case scenario is that he sits his rookie year out and plays Jr B and they get the pick and trade him before the next draft.

You are looking too deep into this. He likely wants a place to play and develop. He has Mews and Marrelli ahead of him only one year older. That is the most likely reason to not want to play in Ottawa. Plus, the team is super deep on the blue line right now in his 16 year old year. It isn’t the best opportunity to actually get decent ice time.

Regarding Ottawa can wait. They really can’t. The window is only open for around 2 weeks. First, Ottawa needs to declare him defected. Once they do that, they get their comp pick. But, they only have the short window to trade.

I also don’t understand the situation regarding convincing the parents to accept a trade when the player isn’t reporting. The player wants a trade. No team is going to trade for a player that won’t report unless it is for compensatory picks. So, yes, the player still holds cards. There is nothing stopping him from playing for Aurora this year in their program if that option is available. Or any other high profile Junior A program including the BCHL which is a good league or even a US Prep School.

HB has options.

The best approach is to work with the family to make the best deal for both sides. It’s not like the 67s will get screwed.

 

[OMG67]

It is starting to look more like the 67’s drafted him in an effort to get him to sign. That also means he was a true 22nd overall pick that all other teams passed on in the first round. That is not to say a team that picked top 10 wouldn’t have picked him at 13 or 14 but he dropped to 22. If that is the case, then the return may be somewhat lighter than I had hoped. The 67’s will need to generate a market for him and hope there are three or four teams interested. I may be wrong but if this was a prearranged deal, there is no reason to not trade him as soon as the window opened.

 

[ohloutsider]

Windsor might be an interesting trade partner. They have 1 second but could recoup that later with some moves. It would definitely be close to home for HB.

 

[EvenSteven]

Windsor might be an interesting trade partner. They have 1 second but could recoup that later with some moves. It would definitely be close to home for HB.

Windsor’s 2nd is in ‘27. Kitchener’s is in ‘24. If I’m Ottawa, unless Windsor adds additional 3rds and 4ths more than what Kitchener can offer, I want the ‘24 2nd.

 

[OMG67]

Windsor’s 2nd is in ‘27. Kitchener’s is in ‘24. If I’m Ottawa, unless Windsor adds additional 3rds and 4ths, I want the ‘24 2nd.

Can’t teams trade through 2028? I thought it was five years of picks. Is it only four?

 

[EvenSteven]

Can’t teams trade through 2028? I thought it was five years of picks. Is it only four?

I’m pretty sure that when they brought the rule in initially, they went from six years out to five years out and then settled on four years out.

According to the database, no 2027 draft pick was traded until after the last draft. Also, no 2026 draft pick was traded until after the 22 deadline.

OHL Institutes Draft Pick Trade Restrictions

If you're a fan of junior hockey, some of the trades made in the OHL the past few seasons have …

www.prohockeyrumors.com

 

[OMG67]

I’m pretty sure that when they brought the rule in initially, they went from six years out to five years out and then settled on four years out.

According to the database, no 2027 draft pick was traded until after the last draft. Also, no 2026 draft pick was traded until after the 22 deadline.

OHL Institutes Draft Pick Trade Restrictions

If you're a fan of junior hockey, some of the trades made in the OHL the past few seasons have …

www.prohockeyrumors.com

Sounds good. So no 2028 picks on the board. That does change things for sure.

Ottawa does have some excess bodies so maybe they can do two separate deals and include bodies of that makes any sense. I know there was some talk about Reykopf.

 

[EvenSteven]

Sounds good. So no 2028 picks on the board. That does change things for sure.

Ottawa does have some excess bodies so maybe they can do two separate deals and include bodies of that makes any sense. I know there was some talk about Reykopf.

Anything’s possible. Rangers would be looking for for 06’s. If Rehkopf is somehow involved, high picks too? But from a Ranger perspective, I’d be hoping Rehkopf isn’t a part of it.

Maybe you’d be in the market for an OA or two off our roster?

 

[Jives]

Windsor’s 2nd is in ‘27. Kitchener’s is in ‘24. If I’m Ottawa, unless Windsor adds additional 3rds and 4ths more than what Kitchener can offer, I want the ‘24 2nd.

Kitchener has to have really high value on this pick as well. Do they want to trade their only 2nd in 2024 when they really need to have a great draft in 2024 to add to the what seems like a solid 2023 draft. These are the players that will be 18 when the core will be 19 in mem cup year which Kitchener has made it known they will try to host. Rangers need to have their 1st (can’t trade if so no issues) and imo they want 2 2nds in 2024. Now…best scenario is you trade for HB and that 2nd probably has to be included. But then they 100% need to add 2 2024 2nds in trading away Hunter, Martin, Sop, Rehkopf and / or Motew.

 

[EvenSteven]

Kitchener has to have really high value on this pick as well. Do they want to trade their only 2nd in 2024 when they really need to have a great draft in 2024 to add to the what seems like a solid 2023 draft. These are the players that will be 18 when the core will be 19 in mem cup year which Kitchener has made it known they will try to host. Rangers need to have their 1st (can’t trade if so no issues) and imo they want 2 2nds in 2024. Now…best scenario is you trade for HB and that 2nd probably has to be included. But then they 100% need to add 2 2024 2nds in trading away Hunter, Martin, Sop, Rehkopf and / or Motew.

Agree 100%. Sure it’s nice to have a very deep draft pick cupboard.

But we cannot be forced to trade our way into contention a few years from now. The best way to do that, is to have strong drafts. Our ‘07 group looks strong. And yes, we need to acquire 2nds and 3rds for the next two drafts. That way, once 25-26 and 26-27 roll around, we will already be strong, hopefully elite, and then just need to add secondary pieces here and there, inexpensively.

If we trade for Henry B, that would be one less piece we’d be trading for at the deadlines a couple of years from now. If the cost is 2nd, 3rd, 2x4ths, we do the deal since we’d be getting him for four years. Maybe cheaper than he’d cost at the ‘27 deadline if he develops properly. A big three D of ‘07’s Reid, MacNiel and Henry? Sign me up!

For me, going forward, Hunter B and the OA’s have to be in play this year. Perhaps Rehkopf too to get the best return (someone’s 1st rounder plus high picks). But if not this year, then next for sure.

Add Andonovski next year as well unless he looks to be an OA candidate for the 25-26 season. But being NHL drafted, that’s isn’t a given.

 

[OMG67]

Agree 100%. Sure it’s nice to have a very deep draft pick cupboard.

But we cannot be forced to trade our way into contention a few years from now. The best way to do that, is to have strong drafts. Our ‘07 group looks strong. And yes, we need to acquire 2nds and 3rds for the next two drafts. That way, once 25-26 and 26-27 roll around, we will already be strong, hopefully elite, and then just need to add secondary pieces here and there, inexpensively.

If we trade for Henry B, that would be one less piece we’d be trading for at the deadlines a couple of years from now. If the cost is 2nd, 3rd, 2x4ths, we do the deal since we’d be getting him for four years. Maybe cheaper than he’d cost at the ‘27 deadline if he develops properly. A big three D of ‘07’s Reid, MacNiel and Henry? Sign me up!

For me, going forward, Hunter B and the OA’s have to be in play this year. Perhaps Rehkopf too to get the best return (someone’s 1st rounder plus high picks). But if not this year, then next for sure.

Add Andonovski next year as well unless he looks to be an OA candidate for the 25-26 season. But being NHL drafted, that’s isn’t a given.

If the final result is this, I think both teams are happy:

Ottawa receives:
Rehkopf

Kitchener receives:
Henry Brzstewicz
Derek Smyth
2024 OTT 2nd
2024 KIT 3rd
2027 OTT 2nd
2027 OTT 3rd

Something in that ballpark is comparable to the Owen Beck deal last year. JVV is a more valuable player than HB but so is Owen Beck so it makes sense from a value perspective. Plus there are 2024 picks in this deal whereas the Beck deal had mostly 2025 picks.

Kitchener gets a solid prospect in HB, a steady large body 19 year old D-Man to keep this calm this season as well as two needed picks in the 2024 draft. A lot of immediate help.

Ottawa gets the centre they need to help fill out this years roster as well as him returning next year when they are potentially poised to do some damage.

 

[Jives]

If the final result is this, I think both teams are happy:

Ottawa receives:
Rehkopf

Kitchener receives:
Henry Brzstewicz
Derek Smyth
2024 OTT 2nd
2024 KIT 3rd
2027 OTT 2nd
2027 OTT 3rd

Something in that ballpark is comparable to the Owen Beck deal last year. JVV is a more valuable player than HB but so is Owen Beck so it makes sense from a value perspective. Plus there are 2024 picks in this deal whereas the Beck deal had mostly 2025 picks.

Kitchener gets a solid prospect in HB, a steady large body 19 year old D-Man to keep this calm this season as well as two needed picks in the 2024 draft. A lot of immediate help.

Ottawa gets the centre they need to help fill out this years roster as well as him returning next year when they are potentially poised to do some damage.

As a Rangers fan…that is right in the ballpark I think.