Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[OMG67]

The OHL pays ON born the equivalent of fees nearest to permanent address when drafted, better not to be near Nippissing as a gold package including room and board being near the Toronto universities would be worth considerably more. Toronto Metropolitan would be ~$25K Cdn.
It would make sense for US born to receive the equivalent of public funded state schools nearest their permanent address.

I thought the Room and Board costs were based on costs in on campus residence and not market rent rates In the area.

 

[dirty12]

I thought the Room and Board costs were based on costs in on campus residence and not market rent rates In the area.

I believe you are correct. It was ~$21K Cdn at Ryerson 6-7 years ago for first year, private room in residence and top meal plan.

 

[OMG67]

I believe you are correct. It was ~$21K Cdn at Ryerson 6-7 years ago for first year, private room in residence and top meal plan.

That sounds about right. I can’t see teams being allowed to rent a short term furnished apartment in downtown Toronto at $5k per month as part of a school package.

 

[OHL4Life]

I thought the Room and Board costs were based on costs in on campus residence and not market rent rates In the area.

yes but its still incredibly expensive. western is almost 10k

Fees and Payment | Residence

Residence Fees and Payment Residence is guaranteed for students coming to Western for their first year from high school, but you must secure your spot by paying your fees on time.

residence.uwo.ca

 

[OMG67]

yes but its still incredibly expensive. western is almost 10k

Fees and Payment | Residence

Residence Fees and Payment Residence is guaranteed for students coming to Western for their first year from high school, but you must secure your spot by paying your fees on time.

residence.uwo.ca

I agree. What I was getting at is there needs to be a baseline to control costs and I assume each contract has that baseline in place. “Room and Board” can’t simply be wherever the player wants to live.

I don’t know what those baselines are but I think Dirty managed to mostly define it as I understand it. I would assume if a player wants to live off campus in their own apartment and that cost exceeds the threshold as defined int he contract, those additional costs would be the responsibility of the player to cover.

Circling back to Beast’s original question regarding tuition, I assume there is some form of baseline and I think Dirty defined that one as well. I think the main point in that regard Is they can’t just choose to go to Harvard and get the full costs covered. That’s what I think Beast was sort of getting at.

 

[OHL4Life]

I agree. What I was getting at is there needs to be a baseline to control costs and I assume each contract has that baseline in place. “Room and Board” can’t simply be wherever the player wants to live.

I don’t know what those baselines are but I think Dirty managed to mostly define it as I understand it. I would assume if a player wants to live off campus in their own apartment and that cost exceeds the threshold as defined int he contract, those additional costs would be the responsibility of the player to cover.

Circling back to Beast’s original question regarding tuition, I assume there is some form of baseline and I think Dirty defined that one as well. I think the main point in that regard Is they can’t just choose to go to Harvard and get the full costs covered. That’s what I think Beast was sort of getting at.

sorry thats it, your capped at a certain amount.

you are allowed to use any university within 100km of your home address and every year the league sends out price guidelines so everyone has the same base to use. you can negotiate inflation and items like that, i think 3 percent is the top line the league normally approves.

you are capped on expenses based on your home university, be it 20k, 25k, or whatever.

if you chose to to somewhere that your $$$ goes above, then you need to come up with the difference, but most of the time these players are so wanted that universities will pay for whatever the differences with bursaries.

tones of ontario boys go out east and make money thanks to the bursaries that they can get during the recruitment process.

 

[beastintheeast]

sorry thats it, your capped at a certain amount.

you are allowed to use any university within 100km of your home address and every year the league sends out price guidelines so everyone has the same base to use. you can negotiate inflation and items like that, i think 3 percent is the top line the league normally approves.

you are capped on expenses based on your home university, be it 20k, 25k, or whatever.

if you chose to to somewhere that your $$$ goes above, then you need to come up with the difference, but most of the time these players are so wanted that universities will pay for whatever the differences with bursaries.

tones of ontario boys go out east and make money thanks to the bursaries that they can get during the recruitment process.

First thanks guys for the info

I am wondering if this could be as point of discussion with HB


OHL4life that would not be the case for American uni's as these players are still considered pros and are banned from getting any assistance from the university. I can see a uni paying for a hockey player to study medicine while not being able to play and getting any assistance unless he is in the top of the field.

 

[OMG67]

The logjam at defence is an issue. We knew it was going to be an issue before the draft. Then they drafted HB in round #1 and it became even more of an issue.

It is a simple solution. Either trade a D-Man or two, or HB likely doesn’t report and the 67’s go the defected player route. It really does mostly boil down to that. If I were in HB’s situation, I’d probably have the same approach.

You could argue Horner hasn’t done anything to nail down a starting six. I’d agree. But there are still six guys ahead of him anyway. You could also argue Sirman can play forward but they have eight returning wingers. By my count, that is four lines worth of wingers before he even thinks of moving up front.

So, you can’t meaningfully move Sirman to forward Without hurting another player that also deserves ice. You can’t insert HB into the starting six without moving Sirman to forward.

What are you left with? Trade at least one d-Man or move out HB. It is what it is. The writing is on the wall. We just need to read and acknowledge it.

 

[OMG67]

First thanks guys for the info

I am wondering if this could be as point of discussion with HB


OHL4life that would not be the case for American uni's as these players are still considered pros and are banned from getting any assistance from the university. I can see a uni paying for a hockey player to study medicine while not being able to play and getting any assistance unless he is in the top of the field.

The level of play in the USA has increased. That is true. HOWEVER, the number of quality players has also increased. That means the pool of talent available to the OHL has increased as well. So, even though there are more top prospect type US born players choosing to play in the USA, there are still more US born players suiting up for the OHL.

As the quality of the talent in the USA increases and the pool of quality players increase, the teams down there are less likely to support Canadian born players playing in their leagues. That means less opportunity for Canadian players. At some point, the USA will produce more hockey players than Canada. It is inevitable. I wouldn’t worry about what you are getting at for the long term.

The pressure point is the cost of hockey in general. It is out of reach for most people now, or at least for the elite programs that produce the players that make up Major Junior and Pro hockey leagues. Until they tackle that issue, hockey in Canada will remain stagnant. They can’t raise the bar anymore at this point without making it more affordable for families without the means of dumping $10,000 to $20,000 or more per year for elite programs. Multiply that by 5-8 years and you have $50,000 to $160,000 to put a kid through elite programs from age 8ish to 15. And when I say $10,000, that is lowballing to the extreme.

 

[beastintheeast]

The level of play in the USA has increased. That is true. HOWEVER, the number of quality players has also increased. That means the pool of talent available to the OHL has increased as well. So, even though there are more top prospect type US born players choosing to play in the USA, there are still more US born players suiting up for the OHL.

As the quality of the talent in the USA increases and the pool of quality players increase, the teams down there are less likely to support Canadian born players playing in their leagues. That means less opportunity for Canadian players. At some point, the USA will produce more hockey players than Canada. It is inevitable. I wouldn’t worry about what you are getting at for the long term.

The pressure point is the cost of hockey in general. It is out of reach for most people now, or at least for the elite programs that produce the players that make up Major Junior and Pro hockey leagues. Until they tackle that issue, hockey in Canada will remain stagnant. They can’t raise the bar anymore at this point without making it more affordable for families without the means of dumping $10,000 to $20,000 or more per year for elite programs. Multiply that by 5-8 years and you have $50,000 to $160,000 to put a kid through elite programs from age 8ish to 15. And when I say $10,000, that is lowballing to the extreme.

It was reaching that point in the 90's it just keeps getting harder. Imagine trying to kit your kid if he wants to be a goalie.

It is not just the leagues either it is the high-priced schools as well as the lack of out door areas for kids to skate. Let's face it most houses do not have a big backyard to play hockey on.

 

[bobber]

It was reaching that point in the 90's it just keeps getting harder. Imagine trying to kit your kid if he wants to be a goalie.

It is not just the leagues either it is the high-priced schools as well as the lack of out door areas for kids to skate. Let's face it most houses do not have a big backyard to play hockey on.

The cost of having a child in triple A hockey in Ontario as an example is why you may not see the next Gretzky if one comes along. The days of a gifted Bobby Orr or Gretzky skating on a back yard rink may be over. Some people can't afford the price of registering kids in house league never mind buying the equipment.

 

[OHL4Life]

First thanks guys for the info

I am wondering if this could be as point of discussion with HB


OHL4life that would not be the case for American uni's as these players are still considered pros and are banned from getting any assistance from the university. I can see a uni paying for a hockey player to study medicine while not being able to play and getting any assistance unless he is in the top of the field.

but if you live in the states, you still get the same system, eligibility to play with the hockey team does not effect the ability to enroll in classes. there are plenty of chl american players who go to school in the states and use there education scollarships they earned to do it, just can't play on the team is all.

 

[beastintheeast]

but if you live in the states, you still get the same system, eligibility to play with the hockey team does not effect the ability to enroll in classes. there are plenty of chl american players who go to school in the states and use there education scollarships they earned to do it, just can't play on the team is all.

AGREED my last comment was in regards to scholarships and things that can be done for them. As they are considered to be pro hockey players unless they excel at a different sport they are treated like any other student applying

still confuses me that one of the USHL teams drafted him.

 

[beastintheeast]

omg AND dIRTY

I thought I would move the Ottawa talk here from the prediction post.

Mayich Mews and Marelli are in proof years.

They are playing to get picked up by an NHL team in the case of Mayich a walk on contract and Mews Marelli in the draft next year.

The problem that OMG keeps bringing up and I am now a believer is that we're short a center.
We need a second line powerplay center if we are going to be a threat.

 

[dirty12]

omg AND dIRTY

I thought I would move the Ottawa talk here from the prediction post.

Mayich Mews and Marelli are in proof years.

They are playing to get picked up by an NHL team in the case of Mayich a walk on contract and Mews Marelli in the draft next year.

The problem that OMG keeps bringing up and I am now a believer is that we're short a center.
We need a second line powerplay center if we are going to be a threat.

Yeah, we touched on the ‘67s as a threat in conference with an OA centre such as Zito or an ‘05 such as Rehkopf that could possibly be funded by declaring HB defective.
I think expectations of 17 yr old D are getting too high though.

 

[OMG67]

omg AND dIRTY

I thought I would move the Ottawa talk here from the prediction post.

Mayich Mews and Marelli are in proof years.

They are playing to get picked up by an NHL team in the case of Mayich a walk on contract and Mews Marelli in the draft next year.

The problem that OMG keeps bringing up and I am now a believer is that we're short a center.
We need a second line powerplay center if we are going to be a threat.

Mayich was drafted this summer by St Louis in round 6.

 

[OMG67]

Yeah, we touched on the ‘67s as a threat in conference with an OA centre such as Zito or an ‘05 such as Rehkopf that could possibly be funded by declaring HB defective.
I think expectations of 17 yr old D are getting too high though.

The 67’s would need a FIRST line centre if they wanted to contend. Then they’d likely need a 2nd or 3rd line centre as well. They’d need to keep Smyth and Sirman. As you mentioned, HB would need to be declared defected and traded so they have some added picks to acquire the pieces they need.

They’d need to keep Beck but could trade Donoso if the deal were right.

Beck(OA) - Rehkopf - Stonehouse
Pinelli - Zito(OA)- Uronen(Imp)
Gerrior - Gardiner - Foster
Barlas - Whitehead - Korbler(Imp)
Hilton - Dever - Yanni

Mayich - Ewles
Marrelli - Mews
Smyth - Horner
Sirman
Deitsch

MacKenzie
???

For that roster to happen, Kelly would need to be dealt in the Rehkoff deal (or another deal that brings in a competent 18 year old centre). If not Kelly, then Foster.

There is only one glaring issue with that lineup. That is the right side of the first pairing on defence. They would have an OA spot open if they traded Donoso. I think they’d need to add a first pairing guy. It doesn’t need to be a scoring guy but someone with some size and ability to move the puck would be sufficient.

 

[beastintheeast]

The 67’s would need a FIRST line centre if they wanted to contend. Then they’d likely need a 2nd or 3rd line centre as well. They’d need to keep Smyth and Sirman. As you mentioned, HB would need to be declared defected and traded so they have some added picks to acquire the pieces they need.

They’d need to keep Beck but could trade Donoso if the deal were right.

Beck(OA) - Rehkopf - Stonehouse
Pinelli - Zito(OA)- Uronen(Imp)
Gerrior - Gardiner - Foster
Barlas - Whitehead - Korbler(Imp)
Hilton - Dever - Yanni

Mayich - Ewles
Marrelli - Mews
Smyth - Horner
Sirman
Deitsch

MacKenzie
???

For that roster to happen, Kelly would need to be dealt in the Rehkoff deal (or another deal that brings in a competent 18 year old centre). If not Kelly, then Foster.

There is only one glaring issue with that lineup. That is the right side of the first pairing on defence. They would have an OA spot open if they traded Donoso. I think they’d need to add a first pairing guy. It doesn’t need to be a scoring guy but someone with some size and ability to move the puck would be sufficient.

This where I think we have to disagree.

Gettng both those players leaves us with the same problem we have this year no centers.

I think your earlier comment is correct and that this year we should be looking at 4-5th in the standings

Let's use this year as a year to build Hamilton had the right idea I would look at trading Beck and Donoso for possibly a player and picks

Smyth and Sirman the same so that we can build and still be copetitive.

 

[dirty12]

This where I think we have to disagree.

Gettng both those players leaves us with the same problem we have this year no centers.

In that scenario, the centres next year would be Rehkopf, Gardiner, Whitehead, and possibly ‘24-1st pick. Between now and then, I’m not sure the ‘67s could do better at that position.
It is very ambitious though. A Rehkopf deal has to suit Kitchener. The return of Zito is not yet known. And off the top of my head, the top two OA RD are Christopolous and Punnet who plays both sides; and they may not be available.

I think your earlier comment is correct and that this year we should be looking at 4-5th in the standings

Let's use this year as a year to build Hamilton had the right idea I would look at trading Beck and Donoso for possibly a player and picks

Smyth and Sirman the same so that we can build and still be copetitive.

Accumulating picks as you suggest is the easier and safer route. Though it comes with less certainty because the level of competition from the whole of Barrie, Mississauga, Brantford, Kingston, Oshawa, and even Niagara is certain to be greater 2024-26. Heck, NB has 8 signed 2006 born. The eastern conference is going to be real good for couple of years after this one, I think.

 

[BarberPole9]

In that scenario, the centres next year would be Rehkopf, Gardiner, Whitehead, and possibly ‘24-1st pick. Between now and then, I’m not sure the ‘67s could do better at that position.
It is very ambitious though. A Rehkopf deal has to suit Kitchener. The return of Zito is not yet known. And off the top of my head, the top two OA RD are Christopolous and Punnet who plays both sides; and they may not be available.

Accumulating picks as you suggest is the easier and safer route. Though it comes with less certainty because the level of competition from the whole of Barrie, Mississauga, Brantford, Kingston, Oshawa, and even Niagara is certain to be greater 2024-26. Heck, NB has 8 signed 2006 born. The eastern conference is going to be real good for couple of years after this one, I think.

I agree wholeheartedly. This should be the go for it year for Ottawa. It’s not only looking at your team’s roster composition, but that in your division and conference. This year is going to be down in the East.

Saginaw is hosting the Mem Cup and if they win the west, the Eastern champion will get an automatic berth. Who has a better roster than Ottawa right now? Go. For. It!!

 

[dirty12]

I agree wholeheartedly. This should be the go for it year for Ottawa. It’s not only looking at your team’s roster composition, but that in your division and conference. This year is going to be down in the East.

Saginaw is hosting the Mem Cup and if they win the west, the Eastern champion will get an automatic berth. Who has a better roster than Ottawa right now? Go. For. It!!

That’s the spirit!
If the ‘67s want to be, they are top 3 in the conference imo.
With Arnsby, Christopolous, Ertel, & Zito as probable OAs; I’d say NB has the best playoff roster in the conference (right now). The Battalion most certainly do not ‘need’ to sell, but at the same time they do not have (easily disposable) assets to remain one of the favourites post trade dead line. That will be up to the owner to decide.
Sudbury has unmatched scoring potential and the most available assets to build a hockey team that could win in the playoffs. Being willing and able to acquire the necessary pieces at whatever cost is …re-vist Barrie striking out on MacTavish and Xhekaj two seasons ago. The top players preferred choices are probably Saginaw, Guelph, London, maybe Ottawa or Kingston for some eastern ON kids.

 

[OMG67]

If Ottawa were to make a push this year, they would open next year with likely no picks in the next four drafts that would be inside the 5th round. Next year would likely need to be a massive selloff and bottom of standings.

That’s the trade off everyone needs to understand.

They have three 2nds, four 3rds and two 4ths spanning over the next FIVE drafts. If they add two centres and a D-Man (two of them OAs), and trade only Donoso and HB, they make have enough total assets to get the impact players they need. But don’t expect them to be competitive again for at least 3-4 years.

 

[badnova]

The 67’s would need a FIRST line centre if they wanted to contend. Then they’d likely need a 2nd or 3rd line centre as well. They’d need to keep Smyth and Sirman. As you mentioned, HB would need to be declared defected and traded so they have some added picks to acquire the pieces they need.

They’d need to keep Beck but could trade Donoso if the deal were right.

Beck(OA) - Rehkopf - Stonehouse
Pinelli - Zito(OA)- Uronen(Imp)
Gerrior - Gardiner - Foster
Barlas - Whitehead - Korbler(Imp)
Hilton - Dever - Yanni

Mayich - Ewles
Marrelli - Mews
Smyth - Horner
Sirman
Deitsch

MacKenzie
???

For that roster to happen, Kelly would need to be dealt in the Rehkoff deal (or another deal that brings in a competent 18 year old centre). If not Kelly, then Foster.

There is only one glaring issue with that lineup. That is the right side of the first pairing on defence. They would have an OA spot open if they traded Donoso. I think they’d need to add a first pairing guy. It doesn’t need to be a scoring guy but someone with some size and ability to move the puck would be sufficient.

I think Mayer could stabilize and bring experience to your defense if Ottawa want him

 

[dirty12]

I think Mayer could stabilize and bring experience to your defense if Ottawa want him

Mayer is the all-purpose OA LD that I would like the wolves to get.
But if looking for some one to play RD, there are replacement level OA RD that could be had for next to nothing that I would choose over Mayer. I’m sorry if you find that insulting, but not all D can play both sides at a high level. Kavanaugh could provide experience and stability on the right side.

 

[OMG67]

Mayer is the all-purpose OA LD that I would like the wolves to get.
But if looking for some one to play RD, there are replacement level OA RD that could be had for next to nothing that I would choose over Mayer. I’m sorry if you find that insulting, but not all D can play both sides at a high level. Kavanaugh could provide experience and stability on the right side.

And I think from an Ottawa perspective, a stable RD with some size that can make the first pass would be the ideal candidate.

I am making the assumption that no internal candidate on Ottawa fits that role. Maybe Mayich can shift to the right side and open a spot on the left side. Who knows?

Either way, that would likely be an addition closer to the deadline anyway.

The centre is needed pretty much right away. They’ll struggle with a rotation of wingers playing centre.