Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[beastintheeast]

Looking at past history I am thinking that if Brzustewicz does not want to play here then it would be reasonable to expect

a second round in this 24 and 25 plus a lower pick

I am basing it on what I think Kitchener has and what we could use.

4 picks in the first 2 rounds would definitely fbring a lot of talent if drafted properly

Personally I think that the main question is do we
want to go for it,
want to be like Hamilton was and go like hell and trade assets at the deadline or
stay with what we have.

I think nmber 2 is proabably the best but no matter what I would be against trading for 2 OA centers. That just pushes the problem back to next year.

If we are looking for picks then we do not want to take on OA in trades we need picks. Even if they are late picks they can be bundled in a deal next year or the year after.

I agree a lot of decisions have to be made.

 

[OMG67]

Looking at past history I am thinking that if Brzustewicz does not want to play here then it would be reasonable to expect

a second round in this 24 and 25 plus a lower pick

I am basing it on what I think Kitchener has and what we could use.

4 picks in the first 2 rounds would definitely fbring a lot of talent if drafted properly

Personally I think that the main question is do we
want to go for it,
want to be like Hamilton was and go like hell and trade assets at the deadline or
stay with what we have.

I think nmber 2 is proabably the best but no matter what I would be against trading for 2 OA centers. That just pushes the problem back to next year.

If we are looking for picks then we do not want to take on OA in trades we need picks. Even if they are late picks they can be bundled in a deal next year or the year after.

I agree a lot of decisions have to be made.

If Brzustewicz is being traded as a defected player to a team he is going to actually play for, he is worth three 2nds and three 3rds. Many of the most recent deals for defected players were for players not likely to report. If he’s reporting where he’s traded then the value returns to the six picks.

I know he was a later pick but those picks still have value, especially a player that was ranked a bit higher by some.

We’d also get the 1st rounder comp pick next year.

But, again, we don’t need bodies. We have lots of bodies returning this and next year. The picks would be better in the following drafts so they can be used as trade assets. We’d have two firsts and a 2nd for 2024 so that should be more than good enough.

 

[dirty12]

If Brzustewicz is being traded as a defected player to a team he is going to actually play for, he is worth three 2nds and three 3rds. Many of the most recent deals for defected players were for players not likely to report. If he’s reporting where he’s traded then the value returns to the six picks.

Moldenhauer returned 7 conditional picks, though not all would be given up by the sting under any circumstance. I am unaware of any other defects that returned 3(2nds & 3rds) beyond pick 5.
Mete was close with 3-2nds, 2-3rds, 6th

I know he was a later pick but those picks still have value, especially a player that was ranked a bit higher by some.

We’d also get the 1st rounder comp pick next year.

But, again, we don’t need bodies. We have lots of bodies returning this and next year. The picks would be better in the following drafts so they can be used as trade assets. We’d have two firsts and a 2nd for 2024 so that should be more than good enough.

 

[beastintheeast]

Moldenhauer returned 7 conditional picks, though not all would be given up by the sting under any circumstance. I am unaware of any other defects that returned 3(2nds & 3rds) beyond pick 5.
Mete was close with 3-2nds, 2-3rds, 6th

I was using Domi as a comparable for what I was looking for

 

[OMG67]

Moldenhauer returned 7 conditional picks, though not all would be given up by the sting under any circumstance. I am unaware of any other defects that returned 3(2nds & 3rds) beyond pick 5.
Mete was close with 3-2nds, 2-3rds, 6th

My bad. I meant to say two 2nds and three 3rds. Because Ottawa would be looking for picks further into the future to make a deal next year (not this year), the picks are worth less the further out they are traded. But, those picks further out would be more valuable for the 67’s if used as trade pieces.

 

[beastintheeast]

asi said earlier there are 2 reasons that he has not been nnounced as signed.

1. he is not reporting and lied when he said he was greatful to be drafted and that Boyd s working the pohones with Kitchener

2. That knowing August is a dead month for hockey news unless your name is Erik or Kyle they are waiting until close to training camp to make the introduction to the press.

The interesting fact is that he has no other option at this point than the OHL or doing a walk on with a USHL team as no one in the USHL drafted him.

The other issue that his parents may have is that playing on this tea he is not going to get as much ice time as he would if he were playing on a team with less potenet defence.

Lets face it the bes he can hope for on this team is 3rd pair minutes for this year and maybe second pair next year. Also mom and dad may not want to do all the travelling to see 2 sons play so playing in Kitcherner or in an area closer to home may be more suitable to them.

 

[EvenSteven]

My bad. I meant to say two 2nds and three 3rds. Because Ottawa would be looking for picks further into the future to make a deal next year (not this year), the picks are worth less the further out they are traded. But, those picks further out would be more valuable for the 67’s if used as trade pieces.

Based on recent history, you’re probably looking at an Aiden Castle (13th overall 2021) return at best.

He brought 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th.

Remember, not only was Henry B chosen at the end of Round 1, he was the 22nd overall pick. If not for the comp picks earlier in the 1st round, that’s the 2nd pick of Round 2.

 

[dirty12]

Based on recent history, you’re probably looking at an Aiden Castle (13th overall 2021) return at best.

He brought 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th.

Remember, not only was Henry B chosen at the end of Round 1, he was the 22nd overall pick. If not for the comp picks earlier in the 1st round, that’s the 2nd pick of Round 2.

Maybe a bit more, 2, 2, 3, 4. It’s possible Henry B lasted to the end of the 1st round because he will ultimately play with Hunter, whether that is in Kitchener or elsewhere.
If you choose rankings or mocks to suit, the Rangers could have four 1st ranked players, five with Henry.

2023 OHL Mock Draft

Matthew Schaefer seems like the obvious choice as first overall in our 2023 OHL Mock Draft, but what happens after that?

worldhockeyhub.com

I think only Flint had a comparable draft, if they can sign all their picks or trade one next off-season like they did with Patterson.

 

[EvenSteven]

Maybe a bit more, 2, 2, 3, 4. It’s possible Henry B lasted to the end of the 1st round because he will ultimately play with Hunter, whether that is in Kitchener or elsewhere.
If you choose rankings or mocks to suit, the Rangers could have four 1st ranked players, five with Henry.

2023 OHL Mock Draft

Matthew Schaefer seems like the obvious choice as first overall in our 2023 OHL Mock Draft, but what happens after that?

worldhockeyhub.com

I think only Flint had a comparable draft, if they can sign all their picks or trade one next off-season like they did with Patterson.

Perhaps. That could be the reason he slipped to Ottawa, but the reason he was ranked by a couple of services mid 1st round could have been because of the Kitchener connection and it was assumed the Rangers would jump on him at 10 or 11.

In any case, he certainly won’t go for Sam Dickinson return.

 

[beastintheeast]

The other option of course is Boyd does nothing. That would mean that he could not play OHL this year or next and would have to play junior B or god forbid play USHL if a team will have him

 

[OMG67]

Kitchener is going to be weak this year. It is likely big brother gets traded to help recoup assets. I’m not sold on Kitchener as the landing spot if he doesn’t sign with Ottawa.

Regarding value, we need to remember that many younger players go for big returns. Lavoie (as an 18 year old) for two 2nds, two 3rds and a 4th is an example of paying more buying years of service. It will come down to whether Henry will only play for one team or whether he wants to play in a specific region which could open the door for multiple teams Which drives the price up.

The accepted package is probably the Castle package as a “courtesy.” Then it comes down to where he is picked and whether there are multiple teams in play.

The reality is the 67’s get the comp 1st as well so any additional picks are a bonus in many ways. This is the year for them to strategically have a defected player considering all their returning bodies, especially if it is a retooling season. Strategically it would make sense.

 

[Larionov]

It strikes me that Stonehouse is a great candidate to be an OA here in 24-25. It's possible, I suppose, that he has a monster year and an NHL team signs him to an ELC next Spring, but given his size I think that's unlikely - I think he's going to have to play his OA year in the CHL, then hit the ECHL to try to work his way up from there. I think OMG67 is right in that 24-25 looks like a more likely year for us to make a run than this year, with the caveat that weird stuff can happen when you are talking about young players - development is never linear...

 

[dirty12]

Kitchener is going to be weak this year. It is likely big brother gets traded to help recoup assets. I’m not sold on Kitchener as the landing spot if he doesn’t sign with Ottawa.

Henry Bzrustewicz would be a great fit for the Rangers, and Rehkopf perfect for the ‘67s. Rangers would end up with a couple of extra picks, and the ‘67s a comp 1st.
If not Kitchener, Henry to Flint and Hunter to Saginaw?

Regarding value, we need to remember that many younger players go for big returns. Lavoie (as an 18 year old) for two 2nds, two 3rds and a 4th is an example of paying more buying years of service. It will come down to whether Henry will only play for one team or whether he wants to play in a specific region which could open the door for multiple teams Which drives the price up.

The accepted package is probably the Castle package as a “courtesy.” Then it comes down to where he is picked and whether there are multiple teams in play.

The reality is the 67’s get the comp 1st as well so any additional picks are a bonus in many ways. This is the year for them to strategically have a defected player considering all their returning bodies, especially if it is a retooling season. Strategically it would make sense.

 

[OMG67]

Henry Bzrustewicz would be a great fit for the Rangers, and Rehkopf perfect for the ‘67s. Rangers would end up with a couple of extra picks, and the ‘67s a comp 1st.
If not Kitchener, Henry to Flint and Hunter to Saginaw?

I wasn’t talking about Henry in a vacuum. I was talking about Kitchener from the perspective that his brother plays there. I don’t think big bro is going to be there after the deadline. So, in light of that, any deal there isn’t for the purpose of uniting the brothers and if it is, it will be short lived. Henry then has 3.5 years without him. From my perspective, the family needs to force a trade to one of a few teams they few is best for Henry. Uniting him with his brother is or should be meaningless. It shouldn’t even be a part of the conversation. That doesn’t mean Kitchener is off the table. It only means the reason for him going there to unite with his brother is off focus.


One aspect of all this that may be clouding judgement is the backlog of defence on Ottawa. Henry could be looking at it and asking where he fits in for ice time. Seems reasonable. He may very well simply be waiting for a couple shoes to drop before he commits one way or the other.

 

[OMG67]

It strikes me that Stonehouse is a great candidate to be an OA here in 24-25. It's possible, I suppose, that he has a monster year and an NHL team signs him to an ELC next Spring, but given his size I think that's unlikely - I think he's going to have to play his OA year in the CHL, then hit the ECHL to try to work his way up from there. I think OMG67 is right in that 24-25 looks like a more likely year for us to make a run than this year, with the caveat that weird stuff can happen when you are talking about young players - development is never linear...

Right now there are four strong candidates for three spots at OA on 24-25. You have to think MacK is #1. Then it’s a tossup for the other two: Mayich, Gerrior, and Stonehouse. Each have their own merit. If there is a deadline deal, you have to think Stonehouse gets the biggest return of them, especially if he scores at a 40 goal clip again this season. Additional conditional picks would also be included for the OA season. I think his asset return would be better than any of the 19 or 20 year olds on this roster. And I think there may be a gap between his value and anyone else’s in that age group. No disrespect meant but unless Mayich increases his offensive production, it would be tough to get anywhere near what a returning 40 goal scoring pain in the arse winger would get on the open trade market.

So, if the 67’s feel the difference between Gerrior and Stonehouse is Negligible enough to go for the bigger trade package, that would be an argument I would accept for sure. May not be something I would agree with actually doing but it is a viable argument.

So, I could see any of Stonehouse, Mayich, or Gerrior traded this season by the deadline. I cannot see MacK traded at this point. If a kid like Parsons were to report and sign? Maybe I could see them keep Donoso and trade MacK but until some sort of signing like that happens? I cannot see MacK not running through an OA season as the starter.

 

[EvenSteven]

Henry Bzrustewicz would be a great fit for the Rangers, and Rehkopf perfect for the ‘67s. Rangers would end up with a couple of extra picks, and the ‘67s a comp 1st.
If not Kitchener, Henry to Flint and Hunter to Saginaw?

Henry B would be a good fit in Kitchener and Rehkopf in Ottawa from a 67’s point of view.

Even though Hunter B is likely moved, the family would have been happy enough with the Ranger organization for it to be a destination team for Henry.

But there won’t be a Henry B / Rehkopf deal if the 67’s are looking for the comp pick. To get that comp pick, Henry would have to be dealt in the September window and defective players can only be dealt for picks.

But stranger things have happened. There could be a fancy two part deal where once the dust settles, we see Henry and a package of picks to Kitchener and Rehkopf to Ottawa.

 

[EvenSteven]

The other option of course is Boyd does nothing. That would mean that he could not play OHL this year or next and would have to play junior B or god forbid play USHL if a team will have him

That would make zero sense. If you can’t sign him, declare him defective. Period. Find a fair deal to a team he’ll report to or worst case, find a trade partner and do a deal for token conditional picks (ie. Hage deal) to get the comp pick.

 

[OMG67]

Henry B would be a good fit in Kitchener and Rehkopf in Ottawa from a 67’s point of view.

Even though Hunter B is likely moved, the family would have been happy enough with the Ranger organization for it to be a destination team for Henry.

But there won’t be a Henry B / Rehkopf deal if the 67’s are looking for the comp pick. To get that comp pick, Henry would have to be dealt in the September window and defective players can only be dealt for picks.

But stranger things have happened. There could be a fancy two part deal where once the dust settles, we see Henry and a package of picks to Kitchener and Rehkopf to Ottawa.

You obviously can’t make a trade where both players are included BUT Ottawa could declare him defected and take the comp through Kitchener. Then do a separate deal for Rehkopf. The question is what a deal for Rehkopf would look like and whether Ottawa has the type of assets Kitchener would be looking for. Obviously Ottawa can’t trade their 2023 1st (HB) and they wouldn’t trade either of their 1sts from 2022. So, Caden Kelly would likely be next on the list of 17 year olds. If they do an ‘05 for an ‘05, Ottawa could part with Foster and a few additional picks. If I were Kitchener, I would do the Caden Kelly deal though. That kid has some fire in his belly as well as some slick moves. I think he will make a big jump this year.

The HB deal would have to look fair on its own though. So, different picks would need to exchange hands in the deals but the deal could be fostered as one deal separated into two transactions a few days apart.

That would make zero sense. If you can’t sign him, declare him defective. Period. Find a fair deal to a team he’ll report to or worst case, find a trade partner and do a deal for token conditional picks (ie. Hage deal) to get the comp pick.

100%. make a deal and move on.

 

[beastintheeast]

You obviously can’t make a trade where both players are included BUT Ottawa could declare him defected and take the comp through Kitchener. Then do a separate deal for Rehkopf. The question is what a deal for Rehkopf would look like and whether Ottawa has the type of assets Kitchener would be looking for. Obviously Ottawa can’t trade their 2023 1st (HB) and they wouldn’t trade either of their 1sts from 2022. So, Caden Kelly would likely be next on the list of 17 year olds. If they do an ‘05 for an ‘05, Ottawa could part with Foster and a few additional picks. If I were Kitchener, I would do the Caden Kelly deal though. That kid has some fire in his belly as well as some slick moves. I think he will make a big jump this year.

The HB deal would have to look fair on its own though. So, different picks would need to exchange hands in the deals but the deal could be fostered as one deal separated into two transactions a few days apart.



100%. make a deal and move on.

Did Kitchener not spend a lot of it's assets to buid the team just before the deadline? I really think they may be in the rebuld the picks basket plan just like we are.

I think a deal for a 1 year rental in place of a kid tht is going to giveyou at least 3 years sucks.

My point about keeping him is simple. Although I agree it is the worst solution. BUT if a player says I will only play for team X and team X does not offer a good package then I say sit him until mom dad and agent come to terms with other choices.

To me the only reasonable deal is the picks. Kit 2nd 24, 2nd and 3rd 25 would be reasonable if they want him that bad.

The caveat that would be interesting is if the parents are going to want guarantees about hunter staying with the team.

 

[beastintheeast]

Right now there are four strong candidates for three spots at OA on 24-25. You have to think MacK is #1. Then it’s a tossup for the other two: Mayich, Gerrior, and Stonehouse. Each have their own merit. If there is a deadline deal, you have to think Stonehouse gets the biggest return of them, especially if he scores at a 40 goal clip again this season. Additional conditional picks would also be included for the OA season. I think his asset return would be better than any of the 19 or 20 year olds on this roster. And I think there may be a gap between his value and anyone else’s in that age group. No disrespect meant but unless Mayich increases his offensive production, it would be tough to get anywhere near what a returning 40 goal scoring pain in the arse winger would get on the open trade market.

So, if the 67’s feel the difference between Gerrior and Stonehouse is Negligible enough to go for the bigger trade package, that would be an argument I would accept for sure. May not be something I would agree with actually doing but it is a viable argument.

So, I could see any of Stonehouse, Mayich, or Gerrior traded this season by the deadline. I cannot see MacK traded at this point. If a kid like Parsons were to report and sign? Maybe I could see them keep Donoso and trade MacK but until some sort of signing like that happens? I cannot see MacK not running through an OA season as the starter.

I think that Gerrior is going to be a scoring machine and will surpass Stonehouse this year. I am basing this on that while stonehouse improved year on year Gerrior had a huge jump in not only confidence but in output in the last half of the seaon and I expect more from him this year.

 

[OMG67]

Did Kitchener not spend a lot of it's assets to buid the team just before the deadline? I really think they may be in the rebuld the picks basket plan just like we are.

I think a deal for a 1 year rental in place of a kid tht is going to giveyou at least 3 years sucks.

My point about keeping him is simple. Although I agree it is the worst solution. BUT if a player says I will only play for team X and team X does not offer a good package then I say sit him until mom dad and agent come to terms with other choices.

To me the only reasonable deal is the picks. Kit 2nd 24, 2nd and 3rd 25 would be reasonable if they want him that bad.

The caveat that would be interesting is if the parents are going to want guarantees about hunter staying with the team.

The idea is the 67’s get picks plus the comp pick for HB. That is one deal. Whatever the picks are, the picks are. They get the comp 1st (likely the last pick of the 1st round or the 23rd pick which is a 2nd round pick. I am not sure how it works when the defected player is picked past pick #20. But regardless…

It really doesn’t matter what team HB goes to. The deal I am looking at is the Rehkopf deal. HE is a decent sized centre, former 1st rounder, and 2nd round NHL pick (2023). He is 18 years old so the 67’s get him this year and next. It solves the issue at centre this year because he steps into the #1 centre role with zero issues. He returns the following year when the team is in go mode.

So, if the 67’s were to get 3 or 4 picks inside round three in return for HB, they flip those picks in a deal for Rehkopf. Ottawa would need to add assets to that.

So, hypothetically speaking, the deals could be:

TRADE #1
Kitchener receives:
Henry B (defected)

Ottawa receives:
Kitchener 2028 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
Ottawa also receives the comp 1st by OHL

TRADE #2
Kitchener receives:
Ottawa 2028 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
Caden Kelly

Ottawa receives:
Rehkopf

The net trade ends up being Henry B and Caden Kelly for Rehkopf and a comp 1st.

From an Ottawa perspective, they don’t really lose anything by trading HB because they get the comp pick next year. They get an extra 2007 instead of their 2006. It’s sort of a wash. Whoopty do. The net trade from an Ottawa perspective is Rehkopf for Caden Kelly.

I’m not saying that is or should be the trade. I am just providing an example of a strategic way to benefit both clubs.

 

[OMG67]

I think that Gerrior is going to be a scoring machine and will surpass Stonehouse this year. I am basing this on that while stonehouse improved year on year Gerrior had a huge jump in not only confidence but in output in the last half of the seaon and I expect more from him this year.

Without additional centres of significant quality, there really won’t be an opportunity for Gerrior unless he is placed beside Gardiner (which is a possibility). If he plays beside Whitehead? I don’t think you’ll see the same sort of output. I think we can apply that to most of the Ottawa wingers. Same could be for Stonehouse except Stonehouse probably has the inside track. Gerrior can provide value on the defensive Side of the puck so it is more likley he slips to a lower line if the lack of centre depth is an issue. He can make a bigger impact in reducing goals against than Stonehouse.

Going into the season I really don’t think anyone can place Gerrior ahead of Stonehouse on the depth chart. trading Stonehouse at the deadline and keeping Gerrior may be a more savvy move and Gerrior’s performance this year may open that door though. Gerrior was excellent in the playoffs. So, I can see your point.

 

[EvenSteven]

The idea is the 67’s get picks plus the comp pick for HB. That is one deal. Whatever the picks are, the picks are. They get the comp 1st (likely the last pick of the 1st round or the 23rd pick which is a 2nd round pick. I am not sure how it works when the defected player is picked past pick #20. But regardless…

It really doesn’t matter what team HB goes to. The deal I am looking at is the Rehkopf deal. HE is a decent sized centre, former 1st rounder, and 2nd round NHL pick (2023). He is 18 years old so the 67’s get him this year and next. It solves the issue at centre this year because he steps into the #1 centre role with zero issues. He returns the following year when the team is in go mode.

So, if the 67’s were to get 3 or 4 picks inside round three in return for HB, they flip those picks in a deal for Rehkopf. Ottawa would need to add assets to that.

So, hypothetically speaking, the deals could be:

TRADE #1
Kitchener receives:
Henry B (defected)

Ottawa receives:
Kitchener 2028 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
Ottawa also receives the comp 1st by OHL

TRADE #2
Kitchener receives:
Ottawa 2028 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
Caden Kelly

Ottawa receives:
Rehkopf

The net trade ends up being Henry B and Caden Kelly for Rehkopf and a comp 1st.

From an Ottawa perspective, they don’t really lose anything by trading HB because they get the comp pick next year. They get an extra 2007 instead of their 2006. It’s sort of a wash. Whoopty do. The net trade from an Ottawa perspective is Rehkopf for Caden Kelly.

I’m not saying that is or should be the trade. I am just providing an example of a strategic way to benefit both clubs.

In any trade for 2 years of Rehkopf, I would assume Kitchener would expect a 2023 first round pick in return. A deal that would mirror the Owen Beck trade last year. If that is a deal done at the deadline in a stand alone trade to a team for their first rounder, then fine.

If that trade is to, say, Ottawa in a two parter as you spell out for Henry B, that could work too.

All that being said though, the potential that Rehkopf has this year and next, I’m thinking that the Rangers may hold onto him until the deadline and shop him to the highest bidder.

There are other contending teams who may be able to provide a better package than Ottawa for this player. Rehkopf scored 30 goals last year bouncing around the lineup never having the same linemates. As the number one centre this year, he could get 40+ this year and 50+ next year.

To have him locked in as the second part of a two-part deal may not be wise for Kitchener. They should try to avoid that I’m thinking.

At the end of the day, you may see a stand alone deal for Henry B to Kitchener and then that’s where it ends. Ottawa gets an Aiden Castle return plus the comp 1st for Henry B.

Then the Ranger’s move Rehkopf elsewhere at the deadline for Owen Beck return.

 

[OMG67]

In any trade for 2 years of Rehkopf, I would assume Kitchener would expect a 2023 first round pick in return. A deal that would mirror the Owen Beck trade last year. If that is a deal done at the deadline in a stand alone trade to a team for their first rounder, then fine.

If that trade is to, say, Ottawa in a two parter as you spell out for Henry B, that could work too.

All that being said though, the potential that Rehkopf has this year and next, I’m thinking that the Rangers may hold onto him until the deadline and shop him to the highest bidder.

There are other contending teams who may be able to provide a better package than Ottawa for this player. Rehkopf scored 30 goals last year bouncing around the lineup never having the same linemates. As the number one centre this year, he could get 40+ this year and 50+ next year.

To have him locked in as the second part of a two-part deal may not be wise for Kitchener. They should try to avoid that I’m thinking.

At the end of the day, you may see a stand alone deal for Henry B to Kitchener and then that’s where it ends. Ottawa gets an Aiden Castle return plus the comp 1st for Henry B.

Then the Ranger’s move Rehkopf elsewhere at the deadline for Owen Beck return.

If HB goes to Kitchener as a defected player, it likely would have been a prearranged deal. This would have allowed the Eangers to bypass HB with their 1st. That would mean HB is not considered a 22nd pick. He likely has higher value.

Some of these types of cooked deals happen in that manner. Strategic side deals. That may explain his draft slide as well.

 

[OnlyUpFromHere]

On the Brzustewicz situation, here's a quote from an article on the 67's website:
--------------------
Despite all of the good news on the draft front, there’s still work to be done. Notably, Ottawa’s first-round pick Henry Brzustewicz remains unsigned, but Boyd continues to search for the right solution.

“We’re still working with Brzustewicz,” Boyd said. “We’re talking with his agent and seeing where he fits in with our group, but we have seven capable defencemen returning, so those discussions continue.”