Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[OMG67]

I agree all those scenarios are possible.. I think though you have to look at what the stats say about the players we have in the system. You also have to look at our defence and to a point our wings.
The one thing that you may not have noticed is that while yes he was a technically 4th round pick Yanni was drafted at 62 and Nelson was drafted at 63 so I think that has to be consiered.

Also with the forwards that we have possbly coming back is Yanni a sure bet to ake the team?

It is al gong to depend on what Boyd sees and what phone calls he gets or makes.

We can say yes Donoso needs to be traded but what happens if no one calls about him? Same with the defence we have layers to be traded but what happens if there are no calls for anyone other than Mayich, Mews or Marelli?

AGAIN all I am saying is that with the current crop of goaltenders that we have they have to find the goalie that can play the odd game but if push comes to shove and Mack gets injured we need a goalie that can play. Therefore the best goalie in camp no matter age I would think would get the nod.

I am not saying he should get it what I am saying is if he comes in to camp hot it is going to make for a very interesting campo with a lot of decisions to be made.

Possibilities exist that the 7th, 8th, and 9th picks make the team because of a crazy good training camp so anything can happen. All I am suggesting is it is extremely rare a 4th round pick goalie plays as a 16 year old. If the 67’s don’t have a viable backup, they will likely keep Donoso for a bit until they can arrange for a trade to acquire a reasonable backup. That is the more likely scenario as the Plan C.

Plan A is to sign one of their five 2021-22 draft picks out of training camp. I can’t say for sure if any of them will attend camp but I am hoping at least two of them do.

Plan B would be to unearth a free agent and have that player end up in training camp battling for a job and he wins it.

Plan C would be to keep Donoso for a short period while they survey the market for a backup or acquire a backup in the Donoso trade.

Plan D would be to keep both Donoso and MacK.

The only other possibility would be to trade MacK and keep Donoso but I think they look at MacK as the OA starter if they project to be competitive the year after next. Maybe they could acquire a goalie in the Import draft but I think they have more pressing needs at centre ice.

Notice that Keeping the 16 year old as a backup wasn’t even a plan? That’s because the kid would have to come in, stand on his head and pry a roster spot out of some other goalies dead hands…. Something like that wouldn’t be planned for.

 

[beastintheeast]

We shall see.
Again my point is that with the opening at goal and looking to the future, if a 16-year-old can come in and shine at camp it leaves Boyd et al with a few decisions and, yes of course, a late pick doing the same thing could happen.
One never knows in the OHL.
All I am saying is it is a possibility and something that could be interesting to watch.
If you have 5 16 year olds that shine and 1 is a goalie what do you put s the decision point.

 

[OMG67]

We shall see.
Again my point is that with the opening at goal and looking to the future, if a 16-year-old can come in and shine at camp it leaves Boyd et al with a few decisions and, yes of course, a late pick doing the same thing could happen.
One never knows in the OHL.
All I am saying is it is a possibility and something that could be interesting to watch.
If you have 5 16 year olds that shine and 1 is a goalie what do you put s the decision point.

It is possible I win the lottery…..

 

[dirty12]

We shall see.
Again my point is that with the opening at goal and looking to the future, if a 16-year-old can come in and shine at camp it leaves Boyd et al with a few decisions and, yes of course, a late pick doing the same thing could happen.
One never knows in the OHL.
All I am saying is it is a possibility and something that could be interesting to watch.
If you have 5 16 year olds that shine and 1 is a goalie what do you put s the decision point.

The decision will come to Cameron believing MacKenzie is not capable of 50 games and does not want an OA goalie and believing the 16 yr old goalie can provide 25+ quality starts and no 17-18 yr old goalie in the system can.
He will have to essentially win the starters job win in camp plus 3-4 exhibition games to stick with the ‘67s because it is better for the team long term to have the true rookie playing 25 games in junior if MacKenzie is expected to play 50 games.

 

[beastintheeast]

The decision will come to Cameron believing MacKenzie is not capable of 50 games and does not want an OA goalie and believing the 16 yr old goalie can provide 25+ quality starts and no 17-18 yr old goalie in the system can.
He will have to essentially win the starters job win in camp plus 3-4 exhibition games to stick with the ‘67s because it is better for the team long term to have the true rookie playing 25 games in junior if MacKenzie is expected to play 50 games.

I think it may be interesting to see where the team feels they need players to develop.

We are in a position that any of the 3=5 round picks can be sent back to develop more.

If there is not room on the defense then who do you drop. Moving a draft ick to a Navan or Smith Falls is possible until a trade can be made.

Then again you can do the4 same thing with Nelson so that he gets experience.

Do you spot Yannis or do you send him to a CCHL team for ice time.

There are so many options and the only thing we know is that all these questions will be answered either the second week of September or the 20th of September.

 

[dirty12]

I think it may be interesting to see where the team feels they need players to develop.

We are in a position that any of the 3=5 round picks can be sent back to develop more.

If there is not room on the defense then who do you drop. Moving a draft ick to a Navan or Smith Falls is possible until a trade can be made.

Then again you can do the4 same thing with Nelson so that he gets experience.

Do you spot Yannis or do you send him to a CCHL team for ice time.

There are so many options and the only thing we know is that all these questions will be answered either the second week of September or the 20th of September.

We do know that a goalie not selected among the first 2-3 and by round 2 will almost certainly be assigned to an affiliate jr team or U18 team.
But it is not a rule.

 

[Larionov]

Today at 5 pm is the deadline for teams to sign their 2021 CHL and European based draft picks. (There are different rules for NCAA players). All indications seem to be that the Flames are not signing Jack Beck, so this confirms that he is available to return here for his OA season.

 

[BarberPole9]

 

[Larionov]

It will be interesting to see if Beck is a late round pick for someone. I think he's a worthwhile project - he skates well, has good hands and finished the year strong after his injury and a slow return from it. You sign him to a three year entry level deal, let him play his OA year and then get him into the AHL and see how he does. If he goes undrafted, there's a good chance that he gets a PTO to go to someone's camp so that they can see up close if he's worth a contract. Either way, I think the odds are that he ends up back here by October 1.

 

[beastintheeast]

We do know that a goalie not selected among the first 2-3 and by round 2 will almost certainly be assigned to an affiliate jr team or U18 team.
But it is not a rule.

Agreed but normally there is a goalie that was sent back the year before that has shown skills and is ready or looks ready. In this case, I am not sure that there is. Also looking to our defence and forwards depending on who comes back the openings are not that great.

I am saying that this year there will be a few position fights in camp and one of them may be who is the 4th 16 year old that Boyd decides to keep.

 

[OMG67]

Agreed but normally there is a goalie that was sent back the year before that has shown skills and is ready or looks ready. In this case, I am not sure that there is. Also looking to our defence and forwards depending on who comes back the openings are not that great.

I am saying that this year there will be a few position fights in camp and one of them may be who is the 4th 16 year old that Boyd decides to keep.

You are looking at it the wrong way.

First, the goalie evaluation is independent of the underage 16 year old situation. The goalie as well as the skaters have to make the team on their own merits, not because they are the top 4 underagers. The only time that becomes a “good problem” is when you have five or more 16 year olds all making the 23 man roster to launch the season. That situation is beyond uncommon.

Depth of positions are meaningless. If a young player proves they are capable, they will win a spot and the management will move an older player. This is not dissimilar to last season with Gill-Shane and Sawyer.

You are correct in so far as us not having a clear path to a backup if Donoso gets traded. But, there are so many other possibilities available Ottawa filling the backup role before we get to leaning on a 16 year old. We can get a goalie back in return for Donoso, we could trade for one, we could draft one in the Import draft, we could pick one off waivers, we could sign a free agent that shows promise…. Each of those options are far more viable than signing a 4th round pick 16 year old that would likely be able to play u18 as a starter and get game action. Maybe even junior B if he is good enough.

All we are saying is if we are going to discuss options then start first with the more realistic options and work your way down the list of probabilities. You started at the bottom of the list with the more unlikely option and it doesn’t make sense.

 

[beastintheeast]

It will be interesting to see if Beck is a late round pick for someone. I think he's a worthwhile project - he skates well, has good hands and finished the year strong after his injury and a slow return from it. You sign him to a three year entry level deal, let him play his OA year and then get him into the AHL and see how he does. If he goes undrafted, there's a good chance that he gets a PTO to go to someone's camp so that they can see up close if he's worth a contract. Either way, I think the odds are that he ends up back here by October 1.

I think consiering the medical issue and lack of ice time that a better scenario is that Beck's agent or the 67's get him an invite to a rookie camp. He plays the rookie camp and then comes back here to show what he has. If he shows that he can play at a high level then I would see a team giving him an AHL echl contract. We have seen this a couple of times and it is the safest route for an NHL team to take.
The draft is not a point to take a crap shoot on an OA.

 

[Larionov]

I think consiering the medical issue and lack of ice time that a better scenario is that Beck's agent or the 67's get him an invite to a rookie camp. He plays the rookie camp and then comes back here to show what he has. If he shows that he can play at a high level then I would see a team giving him an AHL echl contract. We have seen this a couple of times and it is the safest route for an NHL team to take.
The draft is not a point to take a crap shoot on an OA.

If I was running an NHL team I'd be tempted to do it, but I can see the other side of the coin - you can sign that OA player for free the next day, while the draft is a place where you take a flier on an 18 year old with potential who you can watch develop for two seasons without having to commit a contract to him. I'm still big on the Billy Beane approach, though - when Beane started running the Oakland A's 20 years ago they shifted their focus away from drafting high school kids, who for the most part were a lottery ticket, and on to drafting college players where you had a much better idea of what you were getting. It improved their draft performance immensely...

 

[OMG67]

If I was running an NHL team I'd be tempted to do it, but I can see the other side of the coin - you can sign that OA player for free the next day, while the draft is a place where you take a flier on an 18 year old with potential who you can watch develop for two seasons without having to commit a contract to him. I'm still big on the Billy Beane approach, though - when Beane started running the Oakland A's 20 years ago they shifted their focus away from drafting high school kids, who for the most part were a lottery ticket, and on to drafting college players where you had a much better idea of what you were getting. It improved their draft performance immensely...

The challenge regarding beck is he isn’t an NHL prospect right now. What most don’t seem to grasp is the cost to sign a player to an NHL contract. It’s typically around $210k signing bonus or higher plus the AHL salary which is also at around $80,000 per season. That makes it in the neighbourhood of $450k to get a player signature to paper.

If the team signs a player to an AHL contract (as a free agent), they forego the heavy signing bonus and if the player ends up in the ECHL, they only play the ECHL salary which is half that of the AHL contract. That whittles down to a paltry $120k for three years as a committment. They also don’t have to commit one of their 50 NHL contracts to the player.

There is absolutely zero sense for any NHL team to draft Jack Beck unless they are already committed to signing him to an NHL contract with the assumption he will play a healthy season, score 40+ goals and 40+ assists. All they would need is to have that confirmed by the player performance. That’s not rolling the dice. That’s simply buying a year worth of confirmation of what they already see as potential that was derailed by health issues.

 

[beastintheeast]

If I was running an NHL team I'd be tempted to do it, but I can see the other side of the coin - you can sign that OA player for free the next day, while the draft is a place where you take a flier on an 18 year old with potential who you can watch develop for two seasons without having to commit a contract to him. I'm still big on the Billy Beane approach, though - when Beane started running the Oakland A's 20 years ago they shifted their focus away from drafting high school kids, who for the most part were a lottery ticket, and on to drafting college players where you had a much better idea of what you were getting. It improved their draft performance immensely...

If Beck had played and shown what he could do over a season then we would not have this discussion. He would be signed.

In Beck's case, no one knows what he can do over a season and how fit he is and can he stand a year of pro hockey.

Oakland under Bean would not take a chance on him because they do not know what he would bring. As you said the reason that they went with college is because they could see what the player had as a skill.

Beck has to show what he can do and prove that he can play in a certain sense he is a little in the same boat as Boucher but Boucher got signed.

 

[Petes]

Did Peterborough see Peterborough winning the Conference going into the playoffs?

 

[OMG67]

View attachment 715453

WOW. I was suspended twice for less…..

Have your fun. I wouldn’t report it for trolling but just be warned that I got booted from your board for far less than this. The powers that be don’t have the same sense of humour.

 

[OMG67]

If Beck had played and shown what he could do over a season then we would not have this discussion. He would be signed.

In Beck's case, no one knows what he can do over a season and how fit he is and can he stand a year of pro hockey.

Oakland under Bean would not take a chance on him because they do not know what he would bring. As you said the reason that they went with college is because they could see what the player had as a skill.

Beck has to show what he can do and prove that he can play in a certain sense he is a little in the same boat as Boucher but Boucher got signed.

The reality is he is too light. He cannot play at under 170. He needs to prove he can pack on some weight and at least get up to 185. Even at 185, he’s probably too light. As much as I respect Jack’s game and what his ceiling potentially is, he hasn’t shown the ability or consistency to perform at the highest levels required to be a serious NHL prospect.

The one advantage he does have is he can play on the defensive side of the puck which means it is unlikely he’d be a defensive liability as a pro. That should give him an opportunity to play in the AHL after his OA season and continue to work on his game to improve. So there is that positive.

The NHL teams draft NHL prospects. They don’t draft solid AHLers. Because Jack has advanced age and hasn’t really shown to be a real NHL prospect,t here is no reason for a team to sign him. So many 18 year olds with high ceilings and limitless possibilities. When he had potential, Calgary picked him in the 6th round. You don‘t go from an unsigned 6th round pick to being picked again. Never say never because there are outliers but it really isn’t realistic.

Regarding the Billy Beane reference, I think the interpretation is off. Oakland was looking to invest money in players that they were more sure on. When you draft an 18 year old high schooler in the 1st round and give him $2.2mil signing bonus and have to wait on him for five years to develop, that is money sitting on the shelf that could be used on a Junior College player that hits your roster 2-3 years earlier. The NHL is a completely different scenario and I really don’t feel that reference translates much to hockey Because players typically jump to the NHL much earlier and the fiinancial impact isn’t nearly as volatile With respect to signing bonuses. There’s a big difference between giving Connor Bedard a $85kx3 years signing bonus to play next year on your NHL team and giving a $3.5mil signing bonus to the first overall MLB pick that heads to Rookie ball and toils in the minors for 3 years or so before they make it to the show.

I think we need to abandon the Jack Beck talk. He is highly unlikely to not return as an OA. Speculating otherwise at this point is trying to find that 2% outlier opportunity that may present itself. He’d be more likely to leave and play CIS hockey early like Daniel Michaud has done in Niagara than be drafted and play pro somewhere this year.

To me, the better topic would be the fringes of the roster and how this rookie class will potentially unseat returning players…..

 

[Zebra]

WOW. I was suspended twice for less…..

Have your fun. I wouldn’t report it for trolling but just be warned that I got booted from your board for far less than this. The powers that be don’t have the same sense of humour.

Petes fan here -in peace

How long are you banned from the Petes thread?
I liked your analysis of the Petes -wasn’t always what I wanted to hear but IIRC you had facts and data to back up your statements

I posted a statement one time about how the Petes only show up if it’s a high pressure game. You researched out their playing record and showed me that wasn’t true -I was actually impressed by your research

 

[OMG67]

Petes fan here -in peace

How long are you banned from the Petes thread?
I liked your analysis of the Petes -wasn’t always what I wanted to hear but IIRC you had facts and data to back up your statements

I posted a statement one time about how the Petes only show up if it’s a high pressure game. You researched out their playing record and showed me that wasn’t true -I was actually impressed by your research

I was banned from the thread but when the thread was full and a new one started, I was allowed to post again.

Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated.

People will often comprehend things as they want to as opposed to how they are intended. Case in point is above. I don’t think many people, even the team itself was truly confident in winning the Championship going into the playoffs. That was different entering the season. Preseason predictions pretty much had Peterborough as one fo the two or three favourites but going into the playoffs, they weren’t really even a top two favourite to come out of the conference.

Good for the Petes to find a way to pull it together. A lot of good players that for some reason couldn’t get going in the regular season. I think they were very fortunate to play Sudbury in round one and get on a roll. Sudbury was strong enough to provide a test but not near strong enough to truly make Peterborough scared. Had they played Hamilton, their confidence may not have been as high entering round 2.

 

[sudburydinnerjacket]

I was banned from the thread but when the thread was full and a new one started, I was allowed to post again.

Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated.

People will often comprehend things as they want to as opposed to how they are intended. Case in point is above. I don’t think many people, even the team itself was truly confident in winning the Championship going into the playoffs. That was different entering the season. Preseason predictions pretty much had Peterborough as one fo the two or three favourites but going into the playoffs, they weren’t really even a top two favourite to come out of the conference.

Good for the Petes to find a way to pull it together. A lot of good players that for some reason couldn’t get going in the regular season. I think they were very fortunate to play Sudbury in round one and get on a roll. Sudbury was strong enough to provide a test but not near strong enough to truly make Peterborough scared. Had they played Hamilton, their confidence may not have been as high entering round 2.

Sudbury was without a top 6 OA fwd and a top pair D in playoffs. Not saying that with them they would have won series and went on to mem cup like the PETES did. Will however point out they did go 3-1 vs the PETES in reg season and 4-0 vs Ham.

 

[beastintheeast]

	171	BARLAS, CHRISTOPHER	5' 9"	183	not drafted	OTTAWA	OHL
88	74	FOSTER, COOPER	5' 11"	172	6-7th	OTTAWA	OHL
57	43	GARDINER, BRAD	6' 0"	178	5th round	OTTAWA	OHL
72	122	MAYICH, MATTHEW	6' 2"	187	Maybe 7th	OTTAWA	OHL
54	49	PINELLI, LUCA			4th round

Thoughts

 

[Petes1987]

Sudbury was without a top 6 OA fwd and a top pair D in playoffs. Not saying that with them they would have won series and went on to mem cup like the PETES did. Will however point out they did go 3-1 vs the PETES in reg season and 4-0 vs Ham.

Sudbury won their first two games against the Petes early in the first half of the season and the second game in Sudbury Peterborough was missing several key players to injury, suspension and illness. Michael Simpson was playing sick. They shut out Sudbury in the other game. As for key players out the Petes were missing Gavin White for most of the first round. In fact they played the last part of the conference final and all of the league final missing several key players.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

	171	BARLAS, CHRISTOPHER	5' 9"	183	not drafted	OTTAWA	OHL
88	74	FOSTER, COOPER	5' 11"	172	6-7th	OTTAWA	OHL
57	43	GARDINER, BRAD	6' 0"	178	5th round	OTTAWA	OHL
72	122	MAYICH, MATTHEW	6' 2"	187	Maybe 7th	OTTAWA	OHL
54	49	PINELLI, LUCA			4th round

Thoughts

Seems about right...? I do think Mayich is one of those guys that will get drafted pretty late, but carve out a good pro career for himself. Not a lot of glaring weaknesses in his game and he has good size.

 

[beastintheeast]

Seems about right...? I do think Mayich is one of those guys that will get drafted pretty late, but carve out a good pro career for himself. Not a lot of glaring weaknesses in his game and he has good size.

It will be interesting I think he may end up going the way of Hoef. Playing and growing in the AHL/ECHL.