OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

Linkens Mastery

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Jan 15, 2014
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Wasn't expecting this:

Cardinals infielder/outfielder Brendan Donovan is set to undergo season-ending surgery tomorrow, per Katie Woo of The Athletic.
Makes complete sense. He has been injured and it was being announced he was just gonna DH it up for the rest of the year and maybe do surgery in the offseason. Having him do Surgery now would most likely be the best direction for all parties. Especially if he's healthy for next Spring.
 

542365

2018-19 Cup Champs!
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Flaherty to Orioles. Traded all of the important pending FAs. Very curious how the team will look next year.
 

Linkens Mastery

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We got the best return from Monty. But getting Robberse and Roby does help shore up the pitching prospect depth. I find the Flaherty return underwhelming.
 

Mike Liut

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The Cardinals are reportedly receiving infielder César Prieto and left-hander Drew Rom from the O's in exchange for Jack Flaherty.

Prieto and Rom were Nos. 16 and 18 on Baltimore's Top 30:
 

Celtic Note

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So did the Cardinals just get a bunch of depth? Is there anyone there with significant upside/ceiling?
 

Linkens Mastery

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So did the Cardinals just get a bunch of depth? Is there anyone there with significant upside/ceiling?
Four of the guys we got are now listed in our Top 10 prospects via mlb.com I'm not exactly too knowledgeable about prospects for baseball tho.

4. Roby
6. Robberse
8. Saggese
9. Prieto

 
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Mike Liut

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Four of the guys we got are now listed in our Top 10 prospects via mlb.com I'm not exactly too knowledgeable about prospects for baseball tho.

4. Roby
6. Robberse
8. Saggese
9. Prieto


I’m pretty happy with what Mo did. I’m really intrigued by the 19 yr old pitcher we got today from the Flaherty trade.
 

oPlaiD

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So did the Cardinals just get a bunch of depth? Is there anyone there with significant upside/ceiling?
Roby is a top 100 prospect on some lists who was having a great season so was maybe even on his way to higher before he hurt his shoulder. He's supposed to be back soon as well so it shouldn't be a long term injury. He has top of the rotation potential but probably more a good mid rotation guy. He's also pretty close to the big leagues, so wouldn't be surprised to see him get some starts next year.

The 19 year old we got from the Orioles for Flaherty is also a high ceiling guy but he's only 19 so there's a huge range of potential outcomes and we won't see him for years. Flaherty return seems somewhat disappointing given we've seen him pitch like a Cy winner for half a year, but ultimately he's a rental for this season and he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire this year.

There's also things to like about the other guys we got. Kloffenstein and Rom are both guys fairly close to the majors and have some potential to be more than just 4/5 guys, but we could even use some 4s at this point.

We got a lot of guys who maybe weren't super highly ranked, but seem to be on positive trajectories this season who could end up higher ranked soon.

Overall there isn't much to complain about with the return on 4 pending free agents and DeJong, a guy whose contract everyone thought was entirely underwater.

Also wrt to Winn, we likely won't see him called up for a few more weeks. We need to wait a few more for him to maintain rookie status for 2024, which could be valuable because he should have a shot to get top 2 in rookie of the year voting, which would give us a draft pick. As much as I want to see him in MLB, there isn't much reason to call him up right now since he'll still be able to get some time in the MLB before the season's over and we don't exactly need to be competitive the rest of the way.

Anyway these trades don't solve any of the Cardinals' immediate problems heading into 2024, but despite what our local media seems to think they were never going to get good pitchers with term at the trade deadline. There's a reason trades like the Bader for Montgomery one last year are very rare. What Mo did accomplish, though, was adding a bunch of arms to the farm system, some with upside and some close to the majors, which puts us into a much better position both in future season and for making a deal in the offseason.

With Wainwright off the books we have a lot of money to sign a starter. We also have a lot of bullets on the major league roster and in the minors now to make a trade. My guess is the Cards sign a pitcher in the 20m range, maybe even bringing back Montgomery, and then target a 1/2 type pitcher in a trade. Do both of those things and we should be back to around a 90 win projection and favorites to win our division like we usually are.

There are also rumblings we may be in on JP pitcher Yamamoto, who has now won their best pitcher award 3 years in a row. He's also only 25 and may already be a #1 in MLB, so signing him long term could really be a coup since any current MLB free agent will be older.
 
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TheDizee

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We got the best return from Monty. But getting Robberse and Roby does help shore up the pitching prospect depth. I find the Flaherty return underwhelming.
all of the returns are underwhelming. bowtie boy has damaged this franchise severely.
 

Mike Liut

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all of the returns are underwhelming. bowtie boy has damaged this franchise severely.

It was a good return. Nobody was giving up top prospects for our guys. Monty are Flaherty are #3’s and rentals.
 
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Mike Liut

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If we sign a FA pitcher who was QO’d, we will have to sacrifice our 2nd rounder which will be around #40. That will suck.
 

TheDizee

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If we sign a FA pitcher who was QO’d, we will have to sacrifice our 2nd rounder which will be around #40. That will suck.
sign FA pitcher?

why would we do that when we can resign wainwright so he can go for 2 more wins for 300 as he wont get it this season
 
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Mike Liut

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sign FA pitcher?

why would we do that when we can resign wainwright so he can go for 2 more wins for 300 as he wont get it this season

or just have Hudson and Liberatore be the 4 and 5.

2024 starting rotation

Mikolas
Matz
Thompson
Hudson
Liberatore
 

Robb_K

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Idk if @Robb_K will ever get to experience a Dutch Blues player, but maybe the cardinals can deliver him one in due time lol
I already have. What about Ed Kea? He was born in Weesp, Netherlands, to a Dutch family. As far as I remember, he is the only NHL player that was born in The Netherlands. He played mostly for The Red Wings, but also played one year for The Blues, and I remember him playing defence for them.

And what about..... Jay Bouwmeester? He must certainly have come from a family with Dutch origins. That name means "Architect", literally, "Master Builder". What about Eddie Beers? (Means more than one bear), Troy Brouwer? (means "Brewer"), Mike Crombeen ? ("krombeen" means "crooked bone"), Bob Dirk (Dutch for "The People's Ruler" and the shortname for Diederik), Cam Janssen (meaning "Son of Jan", Ralph Klassen (means "more than one class"), Fred Knipscheer (means clipper, as in nail clipper, literally "cutting shears"), Wade Redden (meaning "to rescue" a rescuer hero in the family's past?), Dave Richter (name means "judge"), Cliff Ronning (means "rounding", Mike Van Rijn (means "from The Rhine River"), John Wensink (a common Dutch Surname (probably originally meaning some kind of large hole (pit) in the ground).

There were a lot of Dutch immigrants who came to Canada between 1870 and 1940, including my grandparents.

Baseball is a not a very popular sport in The Netherlands (not a very high calibre of play there). How would a player from there get access to training for it on a high level? He'd have to have immigrated to USA or Canada, or The Dominican Republic, or Japan (most likely USA) with his parents, as a young child, to acquire that skill.

In any case, I don't watch baseball, so it would be a "hollow victory".
Now, if you could, instead, deliver me a bunch more Stanley Cup victory seasons for The Blues during the next 10 years, that would be Aces in my book! :cool:

And also toss in at least one for The Winnipeg Jets, too, for good measure, while you're at it!
 

Bobby Orrtuzzo

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I already have. What about Ed Kea? He was born in Weesp, Netherlands, to a Dutch family. As far as I remember, he is the only NHL player that was born in The Netherlands. He played mostly for The Red Wings, but also played one year for The Blues, and I remember him playing defence for them.

And what about..... Jay Bouwmeester? He must certainly have come from a family with Dutch origins. That name means "Architect", literally, "Master Builder". What about Eddie Beers? (Means more than one bear), Troy Brouwer? (means "Brewer"), Mike Crombeen ? ("krombeen" means "crooked bone"), Bob Dirk (Dutch for "The People's Ruler" and the shortname for Diederik), Cam Janssen (meaning "Son of Jan", Ralph Klassen (means "more than one class"), Fred Knipscheer (means clipper, as in nail clipper, literally "cutting shears"), Wade Redden (meaning "to rescue" a rescuer hero in the family's past?), Dave Richter (name means "judge"), Cliff Ronning (means "rounding", Mike Van Rijn (means "from The Rhine River"), John Wensink (a common Dutch Surname (probably originally meaning some kind of large hole (pit) in the ground).

There were a lot of Dutch immigrants who came to Canada between 1870 and 1940, including my grandparents.

Baseball is a not a very popular sport in The Netherlands (not a very high calibre of play there). How would a player from there get access to training for it on a high level? He'd have to have immigrated to USA or Canada, or The Dominican Republic, or Japan (most likely USA) with his parents, as a young child, to acquire that skill.

In any case, I don't watch baseball, so it would be a "hollow victory".
Now, if you could, instead, deliver me a bunch more Stanley Cup victory seasons for The Blues during the next 10 years, that would be Aces in my book! :cool:

And also toss in at least one for The Winnipeg Jets, too, for good measure, while you're at it!
Not to get too OT, Wasn’t Daniel Sprong Dutch as well? I think he had a cup of coffee lol.

And as for those last couple sentences, I’ll ask around and see what I can do :laugh:
 

joe galiba

Registered User
Apr 16, 2020
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I already have. What about Ed Kea? He was born in Weesp, Netherlands, to a Dutch family. As far as I remember, he is the only NHL player that was born in The Netherlands. He played mostly for The Red Wings, but also played one year for The Blues, and I remember him playing defence for them.

And what about..... Jay Bouwmeester? He must certainly have come from a family with Dutch origins. That name means "Architect", literally, "Master Builder". What about Eddie Beers? (Means more than one bear), Troy Brouwer? (means "Brewer"), Mike Crombeen ? ("krombeen" means "crooked bone"), Bob Dirk (Dutch for "The People's Ruler" and the shortname for Diederik), Cam Janssen (meaning "Son of Jan", Ralph Klassen (means "more than one class"), Fred Knipscheer (means clipper, as in nail clipper, literally "cutting shears"), Wade Redden (meaning "to rescue" a rescuer hero in the family's past?), Dave Richter (name means "judge"), Cliff Ronning (means "rounding", Mike Van Rijn (means "from The Rhine River"), John Wensink (a common Dutch Surname (probably originally meaning some kind of large hole (pit) in the ground).

There were a lot of Dutch immigrants who came to Canada between 1870 and 1940, including my grandparents.

Baseball is a not a very popular sport in The Netherlands (not a very high calibre of play there). How would a player from there get access to training for it on a high level? He'd have to have immigrated to USA or Canada, or The Dominican Republic, or Japan (most likely USA) with his parents, as a young child, to acquire that skill.

In any case, I don't watch baseball, so it would be a "hollow victory".
Now, if you could, instead, deliver me a bunch more Stanley Cup victory seasons for The Blues during the next 10 years, that would be Aces in my book! :cool:

And also toss in at least one for The Winnipeg Jets, too, for good measure, while you're at it!
Kea and Beers were both born in the Netherlands
 

Robb_K

Registered User
Apr 26, 2007
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Not to get too OT, Wasn’t Daniel Sprong Dutch as well? I think he had a cup of coffee lol.

And as for those last couple sentences, I’ll ask around and see what I can do :laugh:
Yes. Sprong was born in The Netherlands, and he played a few NHL games (18), with The Penguins in 2015-16. I remember following him as a prospect hoping he'd make it to a decently long NHL career. I didn't remember that he came up to The Penguins for a couple of Months. I don't think The Blues played The pens while he was up.
 

Robb_K

Registered User
Apr 26, 2007
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Kea and Beers were both born in the Netherlands
I remember Beers coming from B.C. And Hockey db and Hockey Reference list him as having been born in Merrit, B.C. I can only find one place that lists Beers as having been born in The Netherlands (Zwaag in West Friesland, not far from where I used to live in Noord Holland), and that is Wikipedia, which can be edited by ANYONE. So, I would trust Hockey db and Hockey Reference more. In any case, I'm sure Beers never played any hockey in The Netherlands even IF he immigrated to Canada (likely as an infant - IF at all). Sprong certainly played several years before coming to North America, and I seem to remember that Kea did, as well (at least a few). If a Dutch kid wants to play in The NHL, the best thing to do would be to do what European players from lower-mid-level hockey countries do, which is to move to Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, or Finland in a high school (gymnasium) exchange programme, live with a family from that country, and play Junior levels there, before coming to Canada or USA for higher level Juniors.
 

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