OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

One thing that sucks is, Mo’s gonna look around and see all the high priced free agent pitchers this past year are either struggling or hurt, and he’ll be able to go “see, aren’t you guys glad we didn’t pay for those guys?!”

 

[The Note]

One thing that sucks is, Mo’s gonna look around and see all the high priced free agent pitchers this past year are either struggling or hurt, and he’ll be able to go “see, aren’t you guys glad we didn’t pay for those guys?!”

Oh he already trotted that out in an interview with Katie Woo last week. I think that's the most concerning part -- this FO/ownership still thinks they're the smartest guys in the room when that hasn't been the case for a decade. I don't know what hope there is for change honestly.

 

[PJJJP]

Oh he already trotted that out in an interview with Katie Woo last week. I think that's the most concerning part -- this FO/ownership still thinks they're the smartest guys in the room when that hasn't been the case for a decade. I don't know what hope there is for change honestly.

Yeah a lot of the FA starters haven't worked out. Biggest thing is the Cardinals need to overhaul how they approach the game from the top down. I really liked the Randy Flores hiring because it seems our drafting has been very different the last couple of years compared to the early to mid 2010's. Just hire some dude from Tampa and bring over some of his friends. Also the Cardinals seem to be good at drafting however they haven't been the best at helping their guys develop, especially the pitching side. They seem to get to the big leagues, have a good year and then stagnate after that

 

[The Note]

Yeah a lot of the FA starters haven't worked out. Biggest thing is the Cardinals need to overhaul how they approach the game from the top down. I really liked the Randy Flores hiring because it seems our drafting has been very different the last couple of years compared to the early to mid 2010's. Just hire some dude from Tampa and bring over some of his friends. Also the Cardinals seem to be good at drafting however they haven't been the best at helping their guys develop, especially the pitching side. They seem to get to the big leagues, have a good year and then stagnate after that

Agreed. Seems like an indictment on the big league staff, but hey, that would require some self evaluation and admitting failure, and you’ve still got Mo blaming the WBC for stuff.

 

[bleedblue1223]

At least we'll get a top pick. Our internal talent evaluators have been shit for awhile. Traded away guys that became stars and held onto crap waiting for them to breakout. Gallen and Alcantera solve a lot of our issues.

 

[PJJJP]

At least we'll get a top pick. Our internal talent evaluators have been shit for awhile. Traded away guys that became stars and held onto crap waiting for them to breakout. Gallon and Alcantera solve a lot of our issues.

I'm not sure they would breakout the same way in stl as they did in other teams. I remember reading an article about how Alcantara changed some significant things based off what the Marlins pitching coaches saw. Gallen I did not see breaking out but good for him. The biggest problem for me is the upper minor league development and the major league coaching. Neither seems to be very good at helping guys make adjustements

 

[Celtic Note]

I'm not sure they would breakout the same way in stl as they did in other teams. I remember reading an article about how Alcantara changed some significant things based off what the Marlins pitching coaches saw. Gallen I did not see breaking out but good for him. The biggest problem for me is the upper minor league development and the major league coaching. Neither seems to be very good at helping guys make adjustements

Good ole boy clubs only work if the good ole boys are good at what they do. The Cardinals way has become an not so good Ole Boys club from management to coaching.

 

[PJJJP]

Good ole boy clubs only work if the good ole boys are good at what they do. The Cardinals way has become an not so very good Ole Boys club from management to coaching.

It's kinda funny that the Cardinals were very much in the forefront for analytics when they hired Lunhow and promoted Mo which is why they let go of Jocketty. Now they just pat themselves on the back and think they are still the best even tough they have fallen way behind

 

[Celtic Note]

It's kinda funny that the Cardinals were very much in the forefront for analytics when they hired Lunhow and promoted Mo which is why they let go of Jocketty. Now they just pat themselves on the back and think they are still the best even tough they have fallen way behind

The Cardinals, like the Cubs, are content counting their cash while fielding a mediocre product.

 

[Mike Liut]

I’m going to enjoy a top 5 pick

 

[PJJJP]

I’m going to enjoy a top 5 pick

Too bad we have to wait until next year to make that pick

 

[Mike Liut]

There is no reason to keep Goldy at this point. Trade him while his value is high

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm not sure they would breakout the same way in stl as they did in other teams. I remember reading an article about how Alcantara changed some significant things based off what the Marlins pitching coaches saw. Gallen I did not see breaking out but good for him. The biggest problem for me is the upper minor league development and the major league coaching. Neither seems to be very good at helping guys make adjustements

True, development is in same shit bucket as well. And those 2 things are pretty connected anyway.

 

[Xerloris]

It's always fun opening this thread and not remembering what I opened and being confused as f*** as to what you're all talking about.

 

[Mike Liut]

It's always fun opening this thread and not remembering what I opened and being confused as f*** as to what you're all talking about.

Discussing how terrible the team is and the need to clean house.

 

[TheDizee]

 

[The Note]

Tough to say any one moment in this disaster class is "rock bottom" but today has to be close.

 

[Mike Liut]

I’d trade Goldy, Arenado, Montgomery and Flaherty and do a complete rebuild. We have some nice young building blocks.

 

[The Note]

I’d trade Goldy, Arenado, Montgomery and Flaherty and do a complete rebuild. We have some nice young building blocks.

I do wonder how Arenado is feeling currently about not opting out. Anyway, I doubt this team does something that drastic. From that list I would bet Flaherty is the only one that might be moved given his contract, I just can't seem them trading Goldy or Arenado. Don't necessarily disagree with you, it just seems completely counter to how this organization functions and they seem unwilling to change.

 

[PJJJP]

What the Cardinals need is to go outside the organization for help in the FO, development, coaches, etc..... I remember the days when we made smart FA acquisitions and picked up random nobodies and fixed something and they performed so much better.

 

[Spear]

What the Cardinals need is to go outside the organization for help in the FO, development, coaches, etc..... I remember the days when we made smart FA acquisitions and picked up random nobodies and fixed something and they performed so much better.

Yup. Front Office and their approach to the game are stale.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I can't see the Cards moving Goldy or Arenado. Like at all.

 

[BrokenFace]

I'm against going full rebuild. I don't think that works in baseball as much as hockey, and it's probably a bit overrated in hockey. Clear out the surplus outfielders, ideally trading for pitching, hire a manager with winning MLB experience, and spend some damn money on pitching.

 

[PJJJP]

I'm against going full rebuild. I don't think that works in baseball as much as hockey, and it's probably a bit overrated in hockey. Clear out the surplus outfielders, ideally trading for pitching, hire a manager with winning MLB experience, and spend some damn money on pitching.

We spent the 4th most in terms of salary on our rotation in all of baseball. Clearly spending money isn't an issue, it's how we spend it. I do agree that full rebuilds usually never work. The biggest thing is change how the Cardinals approach the game fundamentally and developmentally if we look to compete in the future

 

[TheDizee]

nothing matters until MO is gone. he cant ride the jocketty wave any further. one playoff series win since 2014 LOL.