OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

[Mike Liut]

Mo is a terrible GM. He may have lucked out with Goldy and Arenado, but his FA signings and other trades are worthy of an F

 

[Spear]

I think Blues management can tell the NHL schedule-makers to give them a balanced schedule this year. Cards aren't going to be playing any meaningful games this fall.

 

[TheDizee]

I think Blues management can tell the NHL schedule-makers to give them a balanced schedule this year. Cards aren't going to be playing any meaningful games this fall.

"Hicks has been pretty darn good the past 2 weeks, we trust him". - Oliver Marmol 5/5/23

 

[Majorityof1]

Why did we sign him then? I’m really confused.

I don't follow the Cards, or baseball much if at all. So take this with a huge grain of salt. I did see an article a week or two back that was talking about how bad the Card's pitching is. It suggested part of the problem may be Contrearas. Apparently he isn't good at calling a game, ie which pitches to throw and where. The evidence was the fact that the Cards pitching has gotten worse while the Cubs pitching has gotten better. Beyond what any change in pitching personnel should cause.

Like I said, take it with a grain of salt. But it appears the Cards think its at least worth trying to get someone else calling the game, while still getting some value out of that contract with his bat,

 

[TheDizee]

I don't follow the Cards, or baseball much if at all. So take this with a huge grain of salt. I did see an article a week or two back that was talking about how bad the Card's pitching is. It suggested part of the problem may be Contrearas. Apparently he isn't good at calling a game, ie which pitches to throw and where. The evidence was the fact that the Cards pitching has gotten worse while the Cubs pitching has gotten better. Beyond what any change in pitching personnel should cause.

Like I said, take it with a grain of salt. But it appears the Cards think its at least worth trying to get someone else calling the game, while still getting some value out of that contract with his bat,

basically the cards signed him knowing he was a risk defensively and calling a game. they decided theyd rather overpay via FA than overpay for Murphy via trade market. I wanted Murphy.

Murphy is having a great season where as our big (and only) FA signing has been demoted to DH duties. basically, we have a 8 player lineup once again and the people this move mostly f***s over is Gorman and Donovan.

Oh well, atleast Knizner will get 500 ABs now!!!

 

[tfriede2]

I don't follow the Cards, or baseball much if at all. So take this with a huge grain of salt. I did see an article a week or two back that was talking about how bad the Card's pitching is. It suggested part of the problem may be Contrearas. Apparently he isn't good at calling a game, ie which pitches to throw and where. The evidence was the fact that the Cards pitching has gotten worse while the Cubs pitching has gotten better. Beyond what any change in pitching personnel should cause.

Like I said, take it with a grain of salt. But it appears the Cards think its at least worth trying to get someone else calling the game, while still getting some value out of that contract with his bat,

Thanks, and I believe it…still begs the question of why sign a guy like this then?

 

[PJJJP]

Thanks, and I believe it…still begs the question of why sign a guy like this then?

Because they wanted offense from the catcher position. It was either this or trade for Sean Murphy

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Losers gonna lose

 

[Spear]

Because they wanted offense from the catcher position. It was either this or trade for Sean Murphy

And they didn't want to meet the demands of Oakland.

Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post Dispatch is reporting that the A's were asking for an absolute haul from the Cardinals in exchange for Sean Murphy.

"The Athletics sought a return of outfielder Lars Nootbaar, Gold Glove-winner Brendan Donovan, and a power young pitcher like Gordon Graceffo in exchange for Murphy and three years of control, according to a source with knowledge of the talks."

 

[Majorityof1]

Thanks, and I believe it…still begs the question of why sign a guy like this then?

That's a harder thing to scout than hitting. There are a bazillion stats that measure how well someone hits. There are no stats that measure how often a catcher call a fastball inside when the batter is sitting fastball inside. That type of things effects ERA, etc. But so many other factors do to, its hard to pull out how good/bad a catcher is at calling the game. Maybe they knew and wanted his bat anyway. But maybe they didn't know how bad he was.

Again, I don't know as I no longer follow baseball. I just found the article interesting because played a bit of catcher when I played baseball forever ago. Calling the game always seemed an underrated skill to me.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

The Coaching Staff of this team is a joke. Why the hell did they let Skip leave? Matt Holiday was a genius to leave this shitshow before he even started.

 

[PJJJP]

The Coaching Staff of this team is a joke. Why the hell did they let Skip leave? Matt Holiday was a genius to leave this shitshow before he even started.

Skip left because the Marlins wanted him to be head coach of their team

 

[BadgersandBlues]

About 15 games ago I said this season seemed like it was poised to go off the rails.....and ooooooh boy did it go off the rails. Anyone who thinks we're making the postseason is huffing the highest grade copium.

I think it's time the Cardinals realized that they can't beat up on the worst division in the league to barely squeak into the playoffs and bow out in the first round anymore. The game has changed and we need to change with it.

Moving our ~90 million dollar catcher to DH is a total condemnation of our front office's ability to scout talent. Guy didn't even start 25 games at catcher for us before we moved on. Yikes.

Also, why did we care so much if our catcher could hit in the first place? Didn't we have plenty of bats? Edman, Noot, Goldy/Arenado/Gorman, maybe a bounce back from TON or Carlson, Donovan, with Walker waiting in the wings? The only reason I was frustrated with Yadi's bat last year was b/c Marmol, trying to keep him happy, was hitting him like 5th or 6th. Dude shoulda been hitting 9th and everything woulda been fine.

I know everyone is talking about the pitching, and for good reason - but we're also doing a ton of other dumb shit that Cardinals teams over the last 5 years (Basically post-Matheny) haven't struggled with - I read yesterday or the day before that we're LAST in baserunning efficiency. LAST. We have run into the most outs on the basepaths of any MLB team. We're like second or third worst in defensive efficiency. Again, wtf? We have a billion gold glovers on this team. Yet we're only better then Oakland and Detroit when it comes to D? Over the last five years we're been one of the cleanest teams in baseball in terms of baserunning/D. And now, all of a sudden in one year we're bottom feeders?

What happened to the hallmarks of this organization? Was Yadi really -that- big an influence? Cuz holy shit if he's the f***ing difference b/t the last 15 years and this year, he should have his own f***ing wing in the Hall of Fame.

 

[tfriede2]

Because they wanted offense from the catcher position. It was either this or trade for Sean Murphy

I get that, but now they’re defeating the purpose by playing that guy in a non-catcher position. It looks like a clear sign that they made a mistake. Optics aren’t good, at all.

 

[PJJJP]

I get that, but now they’re defeating the purpose by playing that guy in a non-catcher position. It looks like a clear sign that they made a mistake. Optics aren’t good, at all.

I don't think they know what they are doing. My whole problem is that the past 6 years it feels like they have been a very reactionary team which makes them do stupid trades/dumb free agent deals.

 

[Allens Five Hole]

This is false. the Cardinals have to be at the bottom of the league when it comes to talent evaluation and the good players we draft do exponentially better once they get away from this organization.

Lol it’s not false though. You can’t just make that statement and then back it up with an assumption.

The facts are that we’ve been consistently a well above average major league team which means we consistently draft late. Of course we aren’t going to draft the generational guys. However, even though we draft late every year, we have also consistently had a top half of the league farm system.

We were ranked 9th overall pre season with our farm. We haven’t had a true blue chipper come through but it’s hard to expect that when you’re not picking top 5 every year like the Orioles or previously the Astros.

To me, when you’re able to sustain an above average farm while “competing” (I have the same issues with the FO as everyone else) every year, it’s a win in the drafting and developing department.

The problem the front office has is not drafting a developing major league talent. The problem is that they’ve essentially exclusively relied on it and neglected to use that capital to bring in talent aka Soto, Murphy situations combined with using FA dollars on duct tape players rather than fully fixing the problem.

To use the Dodgers example, they draft and develop well but they don’t expect James Outman and Miguel Vargas to be their horses. They trade for Turner two years ago, sign Freeman, trade for and sign Betts. They’re not afraid to lose guys if it makes their major league roster a legitimate competitor and they go all in on big named FAs that cover a position of need.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I am very displeased that Marmol referred to Contreras as "dude". WTF? It drives me nuts when managers don't maintain a certain level separateness. We already know that Marmol is weak and stupid. But referring to a player as "dude" is way too friendly for me.

Also, Contreras referring to himself as an "employee" is alarming.

 

[TheDizee]

It's embarrassing to watch Marmol and his braindead lackeys blame Contreras for all their pitching staff woes. He's the moron putting them out there to fail in awful spots.

 

[TheDizee]

Marmol pulls Matz who is cruising at 84 pitches and nobody on base. Guy he brings in starts having hard hit balls off him left and right with a Edman error mixed in the middle.

Great managing Marmol! Keep on listening to daddy Mo and the computer!

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

This f***ing team

 

[TheDizee]

Good managing Marmol

Don't worry, daddy Mo won't fire you. You are his favorite toy to play with, you are his Buzz Lightyear!

 

[Mike Liut]

I hope they lose every game

 

[PJJJP]

Honestly everything is going wrong. Here's to hoping MO gets fired. Also wtf happened to Edman. Dude is a gold glover and was one of the best defenders last year and now he is shit

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Naturally they do something exciting when I’m not looking lol

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Marmol pulls Matz who is cruising at 84 pitches and nobody on base. Guy he brings in starts having hard hit balls off him left and right with a Edman error mixed in the middle.

Great managing Marmol! Keep on listening to daddy Mo and the computer!

Zackly!!!!!! Pulling pitchers waaaaaaay too early. Oli needs to go. He is terrible and way out of his depth. Go back to the kiddy pool, Oliver.

The errors are piling up again.