OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

[SirPaste]

Well the Pham 2.0 era was fun while it lasted.

 

[TheDizee]

 

[ChicagoBlues]

A great example of the Show Me State in action!!!

 

[TheDizee]

https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/masyn-winn-discusses-improvement-rookie-season

Winn praises Oquendo more than Ozzie in this interview. Why was this guy passed up as manager? Put him in Cardinals HOF already.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/masyn-winn-discusses-improvement-rookie-season

Winn praises Oquendo more than Ozzie in this interview. Why was this guy passed up as manager? Put him in Cardinals HOF already.

Oquendo must've upset the apple cart while Señor f***Face sucks Granny Smith's tits.

 

[Spear]

https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/masyn-winn-discusses-improvement-rookie-season

Winn praises Oquendo more than Ozzie in this interview. Why was this guy passed up as manager? Put him in Cardinals HOF already.

Probably because Oquendo would've had the same 'philisophical differences'
that Schildt had with Mozeliak.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I like how Jeff Gordon wants to try to say "Cards fans couldn't tolerate the pain of tanking". Which is just complete bs.

We are fine tanking if they need to. The issue is the complete mismanagement of the team by the Ownership, Management, and coaching staff. Then Management wanting to make comments along the lines of if we don't show up they'll just pull less money into the on field product. Then the completely terrible development of our young players who seem to take off immediately after they get traded.

Cards fans not showing up is not because of the losing, it's because of Dewitt and Mo making stupid comments, stupid decisions for the past 3 years, and sinking this team into a directionless future.

 

[TheDizee]

I like how Jeff Gordon wants to try to say "Cards fans couldn't tolerate the pain of tanking". Which is just complete bs.

We are fine tanking if they need to. The issue is the complete mismanagement of the team by the Ownership, Management, and coaching staff. Then Management wanting to make comments along the lines of if we don't show up they'll just pull less money into the on field product. Then the completely terrible development of our young players who seem to take off immediately after they get traded.

Cards fans not showing up is not because of the losing, it's because of Dewitt and Mo making stupid comments, stupid decisions for the past 3 years, and sinking this team into a directionless future.

Fans would be fine with tanking if there was excitement on the team and a promising future.

Instead, we are just another version of the current Steelers, 2010s Redwings or current Penguins. A franchise full of mediocre talent who is stuck in the past of their previous winning years. No future or intent to even build towards the future, just a stubbornness to continue on in the hope of getting a welfare playoff spot for a few days.

Every trade they make is a total debacle now, they get hosed in every damn trade. They dumpster dive in the offseason then sign aging has beens like Carpenter, Wainwright to idiotic contracts. I love Goldy and would love to see him back next year BUT ONLY AT A TEAM FRIENDLY AND CHEAP PRICE. Instead, we will probably offer him top tier dollars then sign nobody else and call it a day.

This franchise is going nowhere until new management comes in with a road map and a clear intention to stay on that road. Bring in some young players that can excite the fanbase.

 

[Xerloris]

Fans would be fine with tanking if there was excitement on the team and a promising future.

Instead, we are just another version of the current Steelers, 2010s Redwings or current Penguins. A franchise full of mediocre talent who is stuck in the past of their previous winning years. No future or intent to even build towards the future, just a stubbornness to continue on in the hope of getting a welfare playoff spot for a few days.

gotta tank to get that exciting player you're crying about and as we saw last year you are clearly not ok with tanking to get that draft pick. Wah Wah Wah all f***ing year long.

 

[BrokenFace]

I like how Jeff Gordon wants to try to say "Cards fans couldn't tolerate the pain of tanking". Which is just complete bs.

We are fine tanking if they need to. The issue is the complete mismanagement of the team by the Ownership, Management, and coaching staff. Then Management wanting to make comments along the lines of if we don't show up they'll just pull less money into the on field product. Then the completely terrible development of our young players who seem to take off immediately after they get traded.

Cards fans not showing up is not because of the losing, it's because of Dewitt and Mo making stupid comments, stupid decisions for the past 3 years, and sinking this team into a directionless future.

Why should fans be excited about tanking when this front office has proven they're a bottom 10 team at drafting and development? Other than the Goldy and Arenado trades, this front office has proven to be non-competitive at all aspects of roster construction for nearly a decade now. Drafting/developing, trading, and free agent acquisition have been middling at best or likely bottom 10 for a while now. About time for them to get a bottom 10 fan base for their efforts.

 

[joe galiba]

what complete nonsense, if the fans don't show up for a .500 team, they are not showing up for a 62-100 team
now, at least, they sell 30,000+ tickets a game even if only 20,000 fans show up

 

[SirPaste]

There is a difference in what they are doing now and actively tanking and playing the youth. Right now they are actually trying to win and have told us so repeatedly, they are just really bad at it. If they actually cleaned house in the front office and told us they were gonna start from scratch that would be a lot easier for most of the fans to swallow then to be continually gaslit by a front office who tries to convince us the team is good and should be competing for the division when it clearly isn't.

 

[joe galiba]

There is a difference in what they are doing now and actively tanking and playing the youth. Right now they are actually trying to win and have told us so repeatedly, they are just really bad at it. If they actually cleaned house in the front office and told us they were gonna start from scratch that would be a lot easier for most of the fans to swallow then to be continually gaslit by a front office who tries to convince us the team is good and should be competing for the division when it clearly isn't.

The fans are not going to show up for years of 62-100
not happening

 

[SirPaste]

The fans are not going to show up for years of 62-100
not happening

If done correctly it shouldn't take years, they already have a solid nucleus of young talent with Winn, Burleson, Walker, Hence, Matthews, Wetherholt, etc that is not far from being ready. The fans could absolutely handle it if there was actually a plan in place instead of Mo telling everyone the team is good enough to compete and falling flat on their face every year.

 

[joe galiba]

If done correctly it shouldn't take years, they already have a solid nucleus of young talent with Winn, Burleson, Walker, Hence, Matthews, Wetherholt, etc that is not far from being ready. The fans could absolutely handle it if there was actually a plan in place instead of Mo telling everyone the team is good enough to compete and falling flat on their face every year.

the fans aren't showing up for a .500 team, they are not showing up in even greater numbers for a 62-100 team for a couple of years

if wishes were fishes we would all have some fried

 

[SirPaste]

the fans aren't showing up for a .500 team, they are not showing up in even greater numbers for a 62-100 team for a couple of years

if wishes were fishes we would all have some fried

Fans aren't showing up because they are sick of Mo and the front office's ineptitude and smug attitude towards the fans. As I mentioned, with some fresh faces in the front office and an actual plan of rebuilding with youth I absolutely thinkmore people would be showing up and buying in. Another offseason of Mo telling fans he is smarter than them and running out the same team thinking they will be a playoff team isn't going to do anything but make the fans even angrier than they already are.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

the fans aren't showing up for a .500 team, they are not showing up in even greater numbers for a 62-100 team for a couple of years

if wishes were fishes we would all have some fried

Fans aren't showing up because of the dumb shit Mo and Dewitt are saying. Fans were lower than normal but still coming out in waves before they opened their mouths basically trying to hold fans hostage.

 

[joe galiba]

Fans aren't showing up because they are sick of Mo and the front office's ineptitude and smug attitude towards the fans. As I mentioned, with some fresh faces in the front office and an actual plan of rebuilding with youth I absolutely thinkmore people would be showing up and buying in. Another offseason of Mo telling fans he is smarter than them and running out the same team thinking they will be a playoff team isn't going to do anything but make the fans even angrier than they already are.

Fans are not showing up when the team is just OK
and you are trying to tell me the fans will show up and spend the kind of money it takes to go to a game when they are actively trying to be terrible, sorry but you are smoking some good shit

Fans aren't showing up because of the dumb shit Mo and Dewitt are saying. Fans were lower than normal but still coming out in waves before they opened their mouths basically trying to hold fans hostage.

see my other answer

 

[SirPaste]

Fans are not showing up when the team is just OK
and you are trying to tell me the fans will show up and spend the kind of money it takes to go to a game when they are actively trying to be terrible, sorry but you are smoking some good shit


see my other answer

The reason the fans aren't showing up has nothing to do with the record right now, thats what you aren't understanding. Even when they looked kinda good earlier this season and were a bunch of games over .500 people still werent showing up. Its MO/Ownership/Front Office and how they treat the fans that is keeping people away from the ballpark. I'm not saying its going to be sellout crowds right away but if they make changes in teh front office and commit to a plan people will start coming back.

 

[joe galiba]

The reason the fans aren't showing up has nothing to do with the record right now, thats what you aren't understanding. Even when they looked kinda good earlier this season and were a bunch of games over .500 people still werent showing up. Its MO/Ownership/Front Office and how they treat the fans that is keeping people away from the ballpark. I'm not saying its going to be sellout crowds right away but if they make changes in teh front office and commit to a plan people will start coming back.

I understand perfectly, I believe you are projecting because that is how you feel
people will come back when the product on the field matches what they want to pay, and if the team is losing in order to get better talent, the crowds won't be there whether it is Mo or someone else running the show
now it is anecdotal, but after a game I was on a bus going back to where we were parked and talking to some fans from out of town who would come in 3 or 4 times a year, and this year they only came in just the one time, he told me the team was just OK, they weren't going to spend the money like they had in the past, not a word about the Cards management, just how the team was not good enough vs how much it cost

 

[SirPaste]

I understand perfectly, I believe you are projecting because that is how you feel
people will come back when the product on the field matches what they want to pay, and if the team is losing in order to get better talent, the crowds won't be there whether it is Mo or someone else running the show
now it is anecdotal, but after a game I was on a bus going back to where we were parked and talking to some fans from out of town who would come in 3 or 4 times a year, and this year they only came in just the one time, he told me the team was just OK, they weren't going to spend the money like they had in the past, not a word about the Cards management, just how the team was not good enough vs how much it cost

Its not about how I feel its about how all of Cardinal fans feel. All you have to do is talk to people and everyone says the same thing. They are tired of DeWitt/Mo talking down to the fanbase and putting out a stale product and they are ready for fresh blood running things.

 

[joe galiba]

Its not about how I feel its about how all of Cardinal fans feel. All you have to do is talk to people and everyone says the same thing. They are tired of DeWitt/Mo talking down to the fanbase and putting out a stale product and they are ready for fresh blood running things.

everybody who?
people talking on websites or sports shows hosts?
I know a bunch of people that watch the Cardinals and go to games, who simple don't look at it like that

the anti-MO subset of fans is a subset who's volume is much larger than the actual quantity
just like on this website there is a loud anti-DA subset that simply doesn't exist in much quantity in the real world

the cardinals were bad last year and just Ok this year, games are expensive, people will spend their money elsewhere

if the team is terrible, on purpose, so we can get better talent (maybe) down the road, people are not going to show up regardless of who is the GM
if we change the front office leadership and the team is just OK next year, we will have crowds just like this year
if the team improves next year and has a good winning year, then the crowds will be bigger, regardless of whether MO is or isn't running the franchise

 

[BleedBlue14]

I think alot of the issue fans have with the front office is how either blind or ignorant they are to the fact that they aren't going to be able to pull a miracle out of their ass every season.

They also seem to consistently make smug remarks, intentionally deceive in regards to support that they are putting their best foot forward in trying to turn around the team, and in general seem to have 0 direction with what they're doing.

This is baseball, not hockey, they don't have to tank to get a top prospect. But what they need to do is figure out that it's not 1995 anymore and you don't have an industry leader like Luhnow running the development.

We are miles behind on player development with alot of the top teams, and hell we are probably even behind 5-6 colleges specifically Wake Forest etc in terms of pitching development.

There seems to be alot of ego at the top that this is the way the Cardinals do things, and we don't need to do anything differently because it's worked for so long. Well, eventually things change, and the game changes. You can't stick with the past and be pompous about remarks about their ways and continually go down this route.

I for one would be completely happy if the Cardinals came out and said hey look we're going to take a year or two to really put a focus on player development by bringing in some outside consultants to see what we're doing internally and see how it lines up with the rest of the league - like the Yankees did last year- and see what changes we need to make.

In the meantime we're going to let the young guys have a lot longer of a rope and probably cut payroll back for a couple of years with this looming RSN situation.

That's a direction, with purpose, with a forseeable gain after the fact. If they want to take the money and spend it on renovating BPV or whatever so be it that's a business decision.

But i'm going to lose my mind if they come out and say well, yeah you know, our payroll is right in line with the attendance, and we are spending money (Very very poorly), while factoring in factors of the luxury tax as payroll versus the actual payroll (which is very skewed by the Arenado contracts etc), and then go out and sign another 35 year old innings eater who gets hit harder than 90% of the league.


The Blues are literally writing the playbook as we speak in what the Cardinals need to do to drum excitement back up and get people excited to see the on field product. The issue is i'm not sure the Front Office can take the hit to their ego of saying hey we messed up, we're going to try something to try and fix it.

The other option they have is to force Yadi to take the manager role and that'll have some play for a while, but will most likely fail because the bones that are currently in place aren't set up for sustainable growth, it's instead set up to hoping that every single player on the roster progresses or has near career year production in order to get to 85-95 wins and win quite possibly the worst division in baseball.

 

[joe galiba]

I think alot of the issue fans have with the front office is how either blind or ignorant they are to the fact that they aren't going to be able to pull a miracle out of their ass every season.

They also seem to consistently make smug remarks, intentionally deceive in regards to support that they are putting their best foot forward in trying to turn around the team, and in general seem to have 0 direction with what they're doing.

This is baseball, not hockey, they don't have to tank to get a top prospect. But what they need to do is figure out that it's not 1995 anymore and you don't have an industry leader like Luhnow running the development.

We are miles behind on player development with alot of the top teams, and hell we are probably even behind 5-6 colleges specifically Wake Forest etc in terms of pitching development.

There seems to be alot of ego at the top that this is the way the Cardinals do things, and we don't need to do anything differently because it's worked for so long. Well, eventually things change, and the game changes. You can't stick with the past and be pompous about remarks about their ways and continually go down this route.

I for one would be completely happy if the Cardinals came out and said hey look we're going to take a year or two to really put a focus on player development by bringing in some outside consultants to see what we're doing internally and see how it lines up with the rest of the league - like the Yankees did last year- and see what changes we need to make.

In the meantime we're going to let the young guys have a lot longer of a rope and probably cut payroll back for a couple of years with this looming RSN situation.

That's a direction, with purpose, with a forseeable gain after the fact. If they want to take the money and spend it on renovating BPV or whatever so be it that's a business decision.

But i'm going to lose my mind if they come out and say well, yeah you know, our payroll is right in line with the attendance, and we are spending money (Very very poorly), while factoring in factors of the luxury tax as payroll versus the actual payroll (which is very skewed by the Arenado contracts etc), and then go out and sign another 35 year old innings eater who gets hit harder than 90% of the league.


The Blues are literally writing the playbook as we speak in what the Cardinals need to do to drum excitement back up and get people excited to see the on field product. The issue is i'm not sure the Front Office can take the hit to their ego of saying hey we messed up, we're going to try something to try and fix it.

The other option they have is to force Yadi to take the manager role and that'll have some play for a while, but will most likely fail because the bones that are currently in place aren't set up for sustainable growth, it's instead set up to hoping that every single player on the roster progresses or has near career year production in order to get to 85-95 wins and win quite possibly the worst division in baseball.

I mostly agree with this
just a few years ago the Cardinals kept coming with all these relievers who threw near 100mph, well now everyone has those, the Cards just sat on their laurels, people copy what you do and you need to find another advantage

the attendance problem won't change, though, unless the team wins

 

[TheDizee]

remember when mikolas chirped dodger fans at the start of the season?